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AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
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★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 23rd 2020, 11:00 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Changing my vote to Revan, given the exceeding gap Mace Windu has over all else.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
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★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 1:17 pm
Sorry for the delay.

MACE WINDU AND REVAN ARE IN THE RUNNING FOR #9.

All votes for Mace Windu (17) and Revan (5) will stay. Anyone who hasn't voted or voted for another may choose between the two. Voting ends in 96 hours.

LIST OF VOTES:

Spoiler:

PLEASE CHANGE YOUR VOTE:

- @EmperorCaedus
- @The Ellimist
- @Gianfi
- @HellfireUnit
- @Bart
- @AlexSerp
- @Syndiciate
- @The Dragon Of The West
- @lorenzo.r.2nd
- @Jedi_Jesus
- @Wandering Jedi
- @xolthol


Last edited by DarthAnt66 on February 27th 2020, 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
The Adventurous Jedi
The Adventurous Jedi
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 1:21 pm
Mace Windu, who really should have been above Plagueis. ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 228124001
Gianfi
Gianfi

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 1:21 pm
Damn, it’s so hard to choose. I’ll back Revan after a difficult fight. Imo:
Sabers - Mace
Force - Revan
All out - Revan
Haggis
Haggis

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 1:32 pm
Based Dindu.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 1:34 pm
Revan
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Four
Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 2:02 pm
HellfireUnit wrote:Revan

Wheres your geth case?
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 2:15 pm
Isv wrote:
HellfireUnit wrote:Revan

Wheres your geth case?

I got Corona, will post it in next round
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Three
Level Three

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 2:17 pm
gotta go with windu. sorry ant lol
xolthol
xolthol
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February 27th 2020, 2:32 pm
Windu
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
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Level Three

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February 27th 2020, 2:41 pm
Revan
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
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Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 3:34 pm
Windu.
AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 5:47 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Revan's pretty obviously > Windu by SoR. Like Windu is nearly ~ Sheev, but also really not. With the whole ROTS Sheev supremacy quotes not even applying by Revan's first assassination attempt, nevermind the second, not even the weakest version of Tenebrae we actually see is scaled over in any manner by Sidious. So once we get to actual feats, reverse scaling off of Sheev's quotes can't save the Sheevite fanboys anymore.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 6:45 pm
LadyKulvax wrote:Revan's pretty obviously > Windu by SoR. Like Windu is nearly ~ Sheev, but also really not. With the whole ROTS Sheev supremacy quotes not even applying by Revan's first assassination attempt, nevermind the second, not even the weakest version of Tenebrae we actually see is scaled over in any manner by Sidious. So once we get to actual feats, reverse scaling off of Sheev's quotes can't save the Sheevite fanboys anymore.
Well AP, I'm a revan supporter obviously, but consider that given the criteria, Mace is Vaapad amped in this situation.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 6:51 pm
Revan's pretty obviously > Windu by SoR.

Lol.
AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 27th 2020, 7:38 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Revan took on two entire strike teams, one that defeated the Dread Masters who by themselves are reality-warping, galactic scale, immortality-inducing beasts, and the other that consists of literally the most powerful people in the galaxy.

Let me extrapolate, that this strike team can take on Revan is itself ludicrous. The Dread Masters are noted to be 'insignificant' next to the Emperor and Revan, implying that the sheer power of these 16 'galaxy's greatest champions' also overshadows the Dread Masters pretty significantly on Yavin IV. Revan would've defeated that strike team if not for multitasking by literally charging a superweapon and having his other half interfere in their fight; Revan's spirit literally resurrects the team from the dead because dark Revan kills them. This is a scripted event that only occurs once. All of this by itself is impressive enough, but I feel as if I'm short-changing the Dread Masters.

The Dread Masters, beyond the insane scope of their powers, are far beyond any individual protagonist. To such a degree that they can dominate the Hero of Tython* whilst simultaneously shutting off the power of entire ships and buildings in four separate places from across the galaxy whilst resurrecting Kephess Venamis style.

*The Hero of Tython at this point scales well over a year of constant war and power growth over the Hero of Act III. This is important because the Hero of Tython defeats a monumentally weakened Tenebrae. However this Tenebrae scales over the dying Tenebrae that we see literally tear apart the entire Dark Temple.

Again, you're asking, why is this impressive? This is impressive because the Dark Temple itself is literally a focus point designed to contain the power of every single spirit Vitiate entombed there, as well as a Phobis device. Why is this important? Because just one of those spirits is Lord Kallig, who was Tulak Hord's main rival and who as a mere spirit just by dreaming warped the reality of the entire Dark Temple and caused thousands of slaves and soldiers to imagine they were living Sith Lords from the time of Hord and Kallig. Not only did they imagine that this was so but a fraction of Kallig's spiritual power completely overwhelms the Empire's Wrath as of Dromund Kaas.

Why is this important? The Wrath at this point is about on par* with the Hero of Tython as of just after Coruscant, who 'easily' kills a Child of the Emperor far above the one who can absorb the telekinetic power of Act II Barsen'thor and then ragdoll him with Force lightning. This being the same Act II Barsen'thor who scales directly above Lord Vivicar whose power was being constantly fed by hundreds of Jedi Masters and whose death caused a literal shift in the balance of the Force.

*Lord Grathan: His attunement to the Force is stated to be matched only by 'few' of the Sith, he's stated to be Dark Council tier, et cetera (Hence declaring himself the thirteenth member.) Yet Wrath kills him, cucks him, practically adopts his son, makes Vette watch the cucking and then brags about it to Baras afterwards, before going to the Dark Temple. This is far more impressive than killing Angral's son in the Jedi Temple which is the best thing the Hero does before facing Valis.

That's literally just the first strike team in Temple of Sacrifice, then Revan can quite possibly face the Hero of Tython, Lord Scourge, Darth Marr, Satele Shan, Lana Beniko, Theron Shan, Shae Viszla and more and only loses because of Satele's Battle Meditation and yet more interference from his other half. They literally can't withstand Revan's power without either.

Revan > Coalition Strike Team & Galaxy's Greatest Champions >> the Dread Masters >> Denova HoT >> Act III HoT >> Weakiate > Dark Temple > hundreds of spirits including Kallig >> Kallig >>> Kaas!ApprenticeWrath ~\< Post-Coruscant!HoT >> Valis >> Aelan Kalder ~ ActII!Thor >> Lord Vivicar ~ hundreds of Jedi Masters & shifting the balance of the Force.

That's literally just what I could think up off of the top of my head, Vaapad-amped Mace is still sub-ROTS Sheev and can't use that as some kind of reverse scaling logic. Revan wins.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 28th 2020, 6:57 am
AP ragdolling
Necromancer76
Necromancer76

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 28th 2020, 10:55 am
My boi Revan
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level Two
Level Two

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 28th 2020, 12:40 pm
windu for a stomp
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 28th 2020, 2:48 pm
I'm ignoring the Revan stuff for now save for this:


 The Dread Masters are noted to be 'insignificant' next to the Emperor and Revan,

They're literally noted to be 'insignificant' next to Vitiate, not Revan...






implying that the sheer power of these 16 'galaxy's greatest champions' also overshadows the Dread Masters pretty significantly on Yavin IV. Revan would've defeated that strike team if not for multitasking by literally charging a superweapon and having his other half interfere in their fight; Revan's spirit literally resurrects the team from the dead because dark Revan kills them. This is a scripted event that only occurs once.


Screenshots and evidence for all of this, please? Because the op itself has Revan constantly retreating and calling in HK. At the end, he even focuses everything he has on beating them, and is still driven back. This is when at least of the four Force users were heavily weakened by the nexus, had to fight through an entire army to reach him, and were accompanied by four NFUs that neither he nor HK could take down.



The Dread Masters, beyond the insane scope of their powers, are far beyond any individual protagonist. To such a degree that they can dominate the Hero of Tython* whilst simultaneously shutting off the power of entire ships and buildings in four separate places from across the galaxy whilst resurrecting Kephess Venamis style.

Wrong. 

https://youtu.be/9j-0uN1C71Y?t=261

They forced a character who had no knowledge of their powers or abilities to his knees for around ten seconds. He then threw off their combined mental attack and Force blasted them, but couldn't harm them because they were in their astral forms. They were then unable to do anything else to him while they still dominated the rest of the crew. The only other time they've managed to dominate him is on Oricon, which was an incredibly potent dark side nexus:


Located in an unremarkable system well off the Hydian Way, Oricon seems an almost arbitrary choice for the Dread Masters' home. But anyone with an affinity for the Force can sense that the rocky Outer Rim moon is immeasurably strong with the dark side. Perhaps this is because the legendary Phobis devices are housed on Oricon; perhaps the Phobis devices were built on the moon long ago because of the dark side's preexistence there.





Again, you're asking, why is this impressive? This is impressive because the Dark Temple itself is literally a focus point designed to contain the power of every single spirit Vitiate entombed there, as well as a Phobis device. Why is this important? Because just one of those spirits is Lord Kallig, who was Tulak Hord's main rival and who as a mere spirit just by dreaming warped the reality of the entire Dark Temple and caused thousands of slaves and soldiers to imagine they were living Sith Lords from the time of Hord and Kallig.

It wasn't reality warping...


Although the Dark Temple grounds have always been a dangerous place for the weak-willed (the expansion of the Kaas City power grid into tunnels beneath the temple drove a thousand slaves mad), 

The Sith spirits were also amped by the nexus while breaking these slaves'/Sith's minds. Next.


Not only did they imagine that this was so but a fraction of Kallig's spiritual power completely overwhelms the Empire's Wrath as of Dromund Kaas.

Source?




Why is this important? The Wrath at this point is about on par* with the Hero of Tython as of just after Coruscant,who 'easily' kills a Child of the Emperor far above the one who can absorb the telekinetic power of Act II Barsen'thor and then ragdoll him with Force lightning.

Proof he did it easily (bear in mind he also had Kira's help) and proof Valis >>> the other Child of the Emperor?




This being the same Act II Barsen'thor who scales directly above Lord Vivicar whose power was being constantly fed by hundreds of Jedi Masters


And? Even with that power, Vivicar was being beaten by a heavily weakened Barsen'Thor, and Parkanas Tark was never that strong to begin with:



Parkanas was the youngest and weakest, and we had to abandon him to Malachor's darkness.

Not to mention being a master is not a guarantee of exceptional or even incredibly strong abilities.

Morrhage also has no feats, lol. He corrupted those masters on Malachor 3, which was noted by Yuon to be incredibly strong in the dark side. It's also impossible to quantify how much power he was draining from them and at what rage, so this is also redundant.


and whose death caused a literal shift in the balance of the Force.

His shift plus the sudden recovery or deaths of every Jedi affected by him, not his death alone


*Lord Grathan: His attunement to the Force is stated to be matched only by 'few' of the Sith

Source?






he's stated to be Dark Council tier, et cetera (Hence declaring himself the thirteenth member.)

His declaration had nothing to do with his strength in the Force:






The estate of the rogue Sith Lord Grathan is a miniature fortress, reinforced by cutting-edge weapons technology and experimental shielding. Lord Grathan's cadre of scientists are constantly upgrading the defenses to ensure that air strikes fail to do harm--only ground-based attacks can do real damage. It's the perfect place for a rogue Sith Lord to make his stand.

Lord Grathan has been reinforcing his territory and adding sublevels to his manor for years, suggesting that his plan to declare himself the thirteenth Dark Council member has been in progress longer than many assume. Any number of traps and treasures may exist deep underground, guarded by Grathan's personal guards and automated war droids.

-



The rogue Sith Lord Grathan has declared himself the thirteenth Dark Council member, with his own power base and sphere of influence within the Sith hierarchy. Although his claim has not been widely recognized, he controls a substantial private army on Dromund Kaas. The Dark Council has authorized all-out warfare against Lord Grathan and anyone who supports him.

It's explicitly noted that his basis for this declaration is his power base and sphere of influence. 



That's literally just the first strike team in Temple of Sacrifice,

A team he repeatedly retreats against, teleporting away and calling in HK. What evidence is there that he matches them?




then Revan can quite possibly face the Hero of Tython, Lord Scourge, Darth Marr, Satele Shan, Lana Beniko, Theron Shan, Shae Viszla and more and only loses because of Satele's Battle Meditation

BM on a world that weakens light siders and thus would theoretically limit the effectiveness of her BM. 




and yet more interference from his other half.

Concrete proof Revan interfered?




They literally can't withstand Revan's power without either.

Funny, the HoT was avoiding being pinned to a wall or stomped even when Satele's all-powerful BM was neutralised.



That's literally just what I could think up off of the top of my head, Vaapad-amped Mace is still sub-ROTS Sheev and can't use that as some kind of reverse scaling logic.



★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Unknow11


Mace actually has concrete feats against ROTS Sheev, from directly countering his blasts to holding off his lightning while exhausted and while Sidious was amping up his lightning to extreme degrees of power by the second.
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Four
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★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 29th 2020, 3:14 pm
He used the thing, good to see pug Vader getting some good use out here BoD, good post.
NevesYtneves (DC77)
NevesYtneves (DC77)
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

February 29th 2020, 9:42 pm
Gotta go Revan.
AncientPower
AncientPower
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Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

March 1st 2020, 3:28 am
BoD wrote:I'm ignoring the Revan stuff for now save for this:

The Dread Masters are noted to be 'insignificant' next to the Emperor and Revan,

They're literally noted to be 'insignificant' next to Vitiate, not Revan...

The Dread Masters couldn't make up the difference in the mental war between the Emperor and Revan, and given that they're 'insignificant' next to the Emperor and the Emperor himself couldn't break Revan, then the logic follows that they're 'insignificant' next to Revan too. Keeping in mind the Emperor maintained constant domination over them.

BoD wrote:
implying that the sheer power of these 16 'galaxy's greatest champions' also overshadows the Dread Masters pretty significantly on Yavin IV. Revan would've defeated that strike team if not for multitasking by literally charging a superweapon and having his other half interfere in their fight; Revan's spirit literally resurrects the team from the dead because dark Revan kills them. This is a scripted event that only occurs once.


Screenshots and evidence for all of this, please?
Because the op itself has Revan constantly retreating and calling in HK. At the end, he even focuses everything he has on beating them, and is still driven back. This is when at least of the four Force users were heavily weakened by the nexus, had to fight through an entire army to reach him, and were accompanied by four NFUs that neither he nor HK could take down.

In case you didn't realise, Revan is charging the Machine Core simultaneously, the strike team causes it to fail which back fires and injures his very life force. So most of the actual injuries suffered comes from his own power being reversed through the Machine Core:

Shadow of Revan wrote:Through masterful control of the Force, Revan has created a Force resonance with The Machine's core, and is channeling its power into an immense attack. Upon successful completion, [Revan] deals massive damage to enemies within 1km. Dealing sufficient damage will break this channel.

Shadow of Revan wrote:[Revan has] suffered a powerful backlash while channeling an immense amount of Force energy.

Plus it's not as if those four NFUs aren't all people who have faced six Jedi Masters(Grand Champ), Darth Jadus(Cipher Nine), etc. So using the NFU card doesn't really work here.

Also, dark Revan uses light side and dark side in those very fights so it's not as if it ain't divided out between both sides.

The evidence for his spirit resurrecting them is here:

Shadow of Revan wrote:Boon of the Spirit. Target has been recently resurrected by an outside force.

Light Revan, Shadow of Revan wrote:"I am with you. Be strong . . . I am doing all that I can. I only hope this will be enough . . . Brace yourself . . . Do not let him win."

Your point about HK-47 is kinda moot given he's imbued with Revan's own power:

Shadow of Revan wrote:HK-47 has been imbued with a tremendous amount of raw Force essence.

So yes, they do defeat him, but only just:

Dark Revan, Shadow of Revan wrote:"You barely managed to drive me away last time. What makes you think you can survive against me?"


BoD wrote:
The Dread Masters, beyond the insane scope of their powers, are far beyond any individual protagonist. To such a degree that they can dominate the Hero of Tython* whilst simultaneously shutting off the power of entire ships and buildings in four separate places from across the galaxy whilst resurrecting Kephess Venamis style.

Wrong. 

https://youtu.be/9j-0uN1C71Y?t=261

They forced a character who had no knowledge of their powers or abilities to his knees for around ten seconds. He then threw off their combined mental attack and Force blasted them, but couldn't harm them because they were in their astral forms. They were then unable to do anything else to him while they still dominated the rest of the crew.

In no way am I wrong, that the Hero managed to recover is not the point. It's that with only a part of their power, they could achieve this from across the galaxy whilst simultaneously doing everything else. That the Hero struggles at all says a lot. Their full power is stated directly by Marr to be beyond any individual Force-user of the time:

Darth Marr to Empire's Wrath/Darth Nox wrote:"Even you cannot slay the Dread Masters single-handedly."

BoD wrote:The only other time they've managed to dominate him is on Oricon, which was an incredibly potent dark side nexus:
Located in an unremarkable system well off the Hydian Way, Oricon seems an almost arbitrary choice for the Dread Masters' home. But anyone with an affinity for the Force can sense that the rocky Outer Rim moon is immeasurably strong with the dark side. Perhaps this is because the legendary Phobis devices are housed on Oricon; perhaps the Phobis devices were built on the moon long ago because of the dark side's preexistence there.

Given you're not just using a source that is just guessing why Oricon is so powerful here, but also then yourself guessing which one of those is true, how about we use a source that isn't guessing at all:

The Empire's Wrath, Shadow of Revan wrote:"Oricon was affected by the Dread Masters."

BoD wrote:
Again, you're asking, why is this impressive? This is impressive because the Dark Temple itself is literally a focus point designed to contain the power of every single spirit Vitiate entombed there, as well as a Phobis device. Why is this important? Because just one of those spirits is Lord Kallig, who was Tulak Hord's main rival and who as a mere spirit just by [/size]dreaming warped the reality of the entire Dark Temple and caused thousands of slaves and soldiers to imagine they were living Sith Lords from the time of Hord and Kallig.

It wasn't reality warping...


Although the Dark Temple grounds have always been a dangerous place for the weak-willed (the expansion of the Kaas City power grid into tunnels beneath the temple drove a thousand slaves mad),

The Sith spirits were also amped by the nexus while breaking these slaves'/Sith's minds. Next.

Massively wrong on every front:

Lord Kallig, The Old Republic wrote:"When the weaklings of this planet trespassed my tomb, I rose, resuming my former life. This temple became my kingdom, and I was once more a Lord of the Sith."

The spirits in the Dark Temple aren't drawing from a nexus when the nexus acts as the anchor to keep them from being pulled into the void. This is basic Star Wars, BoD.

Furthermore, the only active spirit in the temple is Kallig.

BoD wrote:
Not only did they imagine that this was so but a fraction of Kallig's spiritual power completely overwhelms the Empire's Wrath as of Dromund Kaas.

Source?

Lord Allaric, The Old Republic wrote:"His power overwhelmed all inside the temple, and even now workers plot wars against each other, believing themselves Sith Lords and drawing terrible power from Kallig himself."



BoD wrote:
Why is this important? The Wrath at this point is about on par* with the Hero of Tython as of just after Coruscant,who 'easily' kills a Child of the Emperor far above the one who can absorb the telekinetic power of Act II Barsen'thor and then ragdoll him with Force lightning.

Proof he did it easily (bear in mind he also had Kira's help) and proof Valis >>> the other Child of the Emperor?
It was stated to be a casual victory in the quest log:

The Old Republic wrote:With Valis bested.

But more importantly, Valis is hand-selected by the Emperor to go and bring Kira in, an extremely important mission, at least to Vitiate.

Valis, The Old Republic wrote:"We have no quarrel, Jedi. Return to your ship and let Kira come home. The Emperor wills it."

"You belong to the Emperor- and our father will have you back."

Aelan Kalder wasn't even Force-sensitive when he was selected and imbued with power, and was only chosen to act as a sleeper agent in the Republic:

The Old Republic wrote:"Aelan and I were checking the sentries, just talking, when he attacked me. Not with his blaster, with the Force, like a Sith."

"It wasn't your fault, Aelan was a sleeper agent placed by the Sith."

BoD wrote:
This being the same Act II Barsen'thor who scales directly above Lord Vivicar whose power was being constantly fed by hundreds of Jedi Masters

And? Even with that power, Vivicar was being beaten by a heavily weakened Barsen'thor,

What an empty argument, this only makes the Barsen'thor more impressive not the opposite.

BoD wrote:and Parkanas Tark was never that strong to begin with:

Parkanas was the youngest and weakest, and we had to abandon him to Malachor's darkness.

Utterly irrelevant. Parkanas was the 'smallest of echoes' beside Terrak.

BoD wrote:Not to mention being a master is not a guarantee of exceptional or even incredibly strong abilities.

As if we aren't aware of who a lot of those masters were but even if they're average, hundreds combined is clearly insane and is portrayed as such in the story.

BoD wrote:Morrhage also has no feats, lol.

Not even close to true.

BoD wrote:He corrupted those masters on Malachor 3, which was noted by Yuon to be incredibly strong in the dark side.

The entire Malachor system was incredibly strong because Morrhage made it so:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Morrha10

BoD wrote:It's also impossible to quantify how much power he was draining from them and at what rage, so this is also redundant.

Wut? He's drained them to the point that they'd all die if severed from him, they were literally reliant on him to live:

Lord Vivicar, SWTOR wrote:"Kill me, and you will kill every Master I have infected. Every one! Shielded or not, they are still bound to me."

SWTOR wrote:Reports have come in regarding the Masters whom Vivicar also infected. Unfortunately we've confirmed that they did, in fact, perish when Vivicar died.

BoD wrote:
and whose death caused a literal shift in the balance of the Force.

His shift plus the sudden recovery or deaths of every Jedi affected by him, not his death alone.

Wut? It's specifically stated to center around Vivicar himself, nor is the incredibly gradual recovery of Jedi Masters a reason for a shift in the balance of the Force, you just made this up:

SWTOR wrote:You have faced and survived Lord Vivicar, who was possessed by the spirit of the ancient Sith Terrak Morrhage. You have ensured that Vivicar will never be a threat to the Jedi Order again. The plague is over.

Master Syo Bakarn has contacted you via holocom. The entire Jedi Council felt a shift in the Force when you defeated Vivicar.

BoD wrote:
*Lord Grathan: His attunement to the Force is stated to be matched only by 'few' of the Sith.

Source?

His own wife, who wants him dead and envies his power:

Lady Grathan, SWTOR wrote:"Be wary of Lord Grathan, he's attuned to the Force in a way few Sith are."

BoD wrote:
he's stated to be Dark Council tier, et cetera (Hence declaring himself the thirteenth member.)

His declaration had nothing to do with his strength in the Force:

The estate of the rogue Sith Lord Grathan is a miniature fortress, reinforced by cutting-edge weapons technology and experimental shielding. Lord Grathan's cadre of scientists are constantly upgrading the defenses to ensure that air strikes fail to do harm--only ground-based attacks can do real damage. It's the perfect place for a rogue Sith Lord to make his stand.

Lord Grathan has been reinforcing his territory and adding sublevels to his manor for years, suggesting that his plan to declare himself the thirteenth Dark Council member has been in progress longer than many assume. Any number of traps and treasures may exist deep underground, guarded by Grathan's personal guards and automated war droids.

The rogue Sith Lord Grathan has declared himself the thirteenth Dark Council member, with his own power base and sphere of influence within the Sith hierarchy. Although his claim has not been widely recognized, he controls a substantial private army on Dromund Kaas. The Dark Council has authorized all-out warfare against Lord Grathan and anyone who supports him.

It's explicitly noted that his basis for this declaration is his power base and sphere of influence.

What? None of that states Grathan's basis is solely his power base and sphere of influence. Baras explicitly spends a year looking for Grathan's weakness despite having a Sith apprentice in Grathan's service who could have attempted to assassinate him inside his compound the entire time. But more importantly, you're missing the point that Grathan had to be driven out of the Dark Citadel, the seat of the Dark Council itself, before he retreated to his compound and yet this was at a point where all-out war was declared on him:

Grathan Forces Codex Entry wrote:After being driven from the Citadel, Lord Grathan holed up in his estate outside Kaas City.

There's more on this from the SWTOR Encyclopedia but I don't have immediate access to it at the moment.

BoD wrote:
That's literally just the first strike team in Temple of Sacrifice,

A team he repeatedly retreats against, teleporting away and calling in HK. What evidence is there that he matches them?

Answered above. It took causing his own power to backlash against him and being resurrected by the spirit of Revan to 'barely' push him back.

BoD wrote:
then Revan can quite possibly face the Hero of Tython, Lord Scourge, Darth Marr, Satele Shan, Lana Beniko, Theron Shan, Shae Viszla and more and only loses because of Satele's Battle Meditation

BM on a world that weakens light siders and thus would theoretically limit the effectiveness of her BM.

BM that is stated to 'greatly increase' their 'combat effectiveness'.

BoD wrote:
and yet more interference from his other half

Concrete proof Revan interfered?

Spirit Revan shields the Outlander as Dark Revan uses Force destruction to destroy the entire team, because of this the rest of the team is freed and saved. Otherwise, they'd have died there and then. I don't exactly have screencaps of it but maybe Ant does.

BoD wrote:
They literally can't withstand Revan's power without either.

[size=26]Funny, the HoT was avoiding being pinned to a wall or stomped even when Satele's all-powerful BM was neutralised.

Yes, because the Spirit of Revan was shielding him.

BoD wrote:
That's literally just what I could think up off of the top of my head, Vaapad-amped Mace is still sub-ROTS Sheev and can't use that as some kind of reverse scaling logic.

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Unknow11

Mace actually has concrete feats against ROTS Sheev, from directly countering his blasts

If you mean telekinetically redirecting himself so he doesn't get blown out of the window. That doesn't mean he is the Force equal of Sheev.

BoD wrote:to holding off his lightning while exhausted and while Sidious was amping up his lightning to extreme degrees of power by the second.

If you mean Mace admitting that Sheev's full lightning prowess was beyond Vaapad's superconducting loop and having his own lightsaber blade be bent so far back into his own face that he literally chokes on ozone then, sure? He's still not Sheev's equal. Even Yoda, the confirmed Jedi GOAT of his era was arguably overpowered depending on the sources. You're gonna need better than reverse scaling from Sheev, something like actual feats that don't solely rely on that.

Nice try, though. Revan still wins.
Gianfi
Gianfi

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

March 3rd 2020, 11:40 am
When does phase 10 start?
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

March 3rd 2020, 11:52 am
Gianfi wrote:When does phase 10 start?
When Ant declares this one over ig, so in a bit.
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★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu - Page 8 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

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