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SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66) Empty SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66)

January 20th 2020, 11:08 pm
SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66) O4cea2c

This thread is apart of "The Apprenticeship Tournament". You can read the other debate here:


Mentor: DarthAnt66
Students: Blade_of_Dorin and Cheth
Character: Darth Tyranus as of Episode III: Revenge of the Sith.

Mentor: xSupremeSkillz
Students: KingofBlades and Praxis
Character: Arcann as of Knights of the Eternal Throne Chapter IX: The Eternal Throne.

Each introduction can take a maximum of one week to create. Each subsequent post can take a maximum of two weeks to respond. There will be three posts per side. The first post, not including response or sourcing quotes, will have a maximum of 10,000 original characters, the second 17,500, and the third 25,000. Each debater will have a 2,500 finisher. The verdict will be decided by a panel of moderators.

This thread follows all default stipulations listed in the "Guidelines" thread. Additional rules are as follows:

  • Feats take precedent over directly and indisputably contradicted statements.

  • Quotes are binding and have no expiration date unless directly or subtextually contradicted. For the latter, such a case must be made within the debate itself.

  • All letter or number statistics ascribed to characters from C-Canon sources, including role-playing games and trading cards, are banned.
Level Three
Level Three

SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66) Empty Re: SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66)

February 3rd 2020, 9:04 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Unfortunately, due to other various obligations, Praxis was unable to help me write this post beyond offering advice and ideas as well as helping me format this post. This will continue for the rest of the tournament. With that said, let's begin.

The Three Masters

Jedi masters Vrook, Kavar, and Zez-Kai Ell are stated to be among the most powerful Jedi masters of their era:

It is a great technique that you have learned. Gifted only to the highest of Jedi Masters – and the Sith – this technique makes your Force powers more difficult to resist… and they will last longer as well. But it can tire you quickly. Use it only in short combats, where expediency is necessary.

According to Bastila Shan, Vrook Lamar is one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the Jedi Order:

Even the Sith would think twice before attacking Dantooine. There are many Jedi here, including several of the most powerful Masters of the Order. There is great strength within this place.

Meetra Surik once called Vrook an “elite Jedi master”:

You know, your cage won't hold him. He's an elite Jedi Master.

At this point, it should be clear that these 3 Jedi should be well above your average Jedi masters.

Wounds in the Force


Darth Traya then ragdolls all 3 aforementioned Jedi masters simultaneously with a mere wave of her hand, and then ragdolls Vrook Lamar again after he gets back up and attempts to attack her (link). Note that instances of outright domination over multiple powerful Force users simultaneously are a rare occurrence in the mythos. The rarity should be an indicator that only some of the most powerful Force users in the mythos should be capable of replicating such a feat, otherwise such events would be altogether more common if the minimum power requirement was commonly reached.

Traya then proceeds to destroy all 3 Jedi masters simultaneously with Force drain (link). Due to the nature of Force drain, Traya receives a large power boost, as she’s absorbed the collective power of all 3 Jedi masters.

While on Malachor V, a planet with a dark side nexus so powerful Traya claims that it corrupts everything that walks upon its surface, Traya stands over a location described as a "colossal geyser of dark side energy”. So it stands to reason that Traya should be far more powerful on Malachor V than she was on Dantooine.

We now have a scaling chain that looks like:
Malachor Traya>>Post drain Dantooine Traya>Pre Drain Dantooine Traya>>>The collective power of 3 above average Jedi masters.

2. Meetra Surik

According to Meetra in the Revan Novel, she was significantly physically and mentally hindered while on Malachor V:

She had visited Malachor V years after the cataclysm of the mass-shadow generator. Traversing its surface had been agony. Mentally, she had still sensed the anguish of all who had lost their lives there. Physically, the intense gravity of the world had held her in its crushing grip, leaving her gasping for breath. It had been the most awful and horrific experience of her life...until now.

Despite these hindrances, she would fight through an army of sith and then defeat Darth Sion multiple consecutive times, adding fatigue to her list of hindrances as well. Finally, Meetra legitimately defeats Darth Traya in single combat, despite the negative factors affecting her. While it is stated that Traya was indeed more powerful than the exile, the fact that Meetra was able to win with all circumstantial factors actually inhibiting her implies the power gap between the two individuals is minimal.

Revan Reborn and Darth Nyriss

Darth Nyriss, a member of the Dark Council, manages to defeat Meetra Surik in the span of what is likely a few seconds:

She raised her free hand above her head and fired off another burst of lightning. Both Scourge and Meetra threw themselves clear of the deadly electrical bolt, but in doing so gave Nyriss the early advantage.

Before they could recover, she leapt at them. Despite her withered appearance, she moved with the all the speed and ferocity of a dark side warrior in her prime. She landed right between her two adversaries, her blade flashing back and forth in a series of slashes and cuts that immediately threw her two opponents on the defensive.

Scourge barely managed to parry the first wave of her assault, unable to even think about countering with an attack of his own. Another quick thrust forced him off balance and he staggered backward.

Nyriss seized on the opportunity to focus all her efforts on breaking through Meetra’s defenses. The Jedi was clearly overmatched; though she managed to hold her ground, she was forced down to one knee.

In the awkward position her right flank was exposed, and Nyriss brought her blade in to deliver a crippling cut. At the same time, Scourge lashed out with the Force, catching Nyriss flush in the center of her chest.

Were it not for Scourge’s timely intervention, Meetra would have died in the opening moment of the battle. Blitzing to this degree shows enormous superiority on Nyriss’s part. Enter Revan:

The air around her began to crackle and grow hot as she gathered herself for the killing blow. Scourge felt the energy building inside her, and he knew he would be powerless to stop it. Nyriss was too powerful; her command of the dark side was too strong.

“Gaze upon me and see your doom!” she declared. “I am Darth Nyriss, Lord of the Sith. I am the conqueror of Drezzi, the destroyer of Melldia, and a member of the Dark Council!”

Scourge braced himself for the end.

Just then, Revan emerged from the cell. He had pulled the hood of his Jedi robe up to cover his head, and he wore the red-and-gray mask, hiding his face. A dozen bolts of lightning sprang from Nyriss’s hand, arcing across the room to incinerate her enemies. Instead of leaping back into the cell to avoid the deadly attack, Revan stepped forward to intercept it.

Both hands were held in front of him, his arms fully extended at shoulder height, his thumbs touching and his fingers splayed wide. He drew the bolts of lightning into his waiting grasp, channeling them away from their intended targets and absorbing their power.

“I am Revan reborn,” he said to Nyriss. “And before me you are nothing.” Nyriss’s eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her. She tried to throw up another Force shield, but the bolts ripped it apart and continued on unabated. The lightning engulfed her, the intense heat consuming her instantly, leaving only a pile of charred ash.

Nyriss fires off a supercharged lightning barrage at Meetra and Scourge, only for Revan to step forward and easily redirect it back at Nyriss, incinerating her. Revan being able to easily redirect energy capable of ashing Nyriss, who is herself a Meetra+ individual, demonstrates an enormous gap between Revan and Meetra. This is supported when Revan later nearly completely contains lightning stated to be “infinitely more powerful than Nyriss’s lightning:

A dozen bolts of purple lightning arced from the Emperor toward him. Revan tried to draw them in and contain them, but the Emperor was infinitely more powerful than Darth Nyriss had ever been.

Revan’s body was engulfed in agony as the electricity coursed through his body. His skin began to boil and blister, the flesh of his face melting and sticking to the superheated metal of his mask as the Emperor poured more and more power into him.

The fact that Revan only suffers 2nd-degree burns from a lightning barrage stated to be infinitely more powerful than lightning capable of ashing an extremely powerful Force user is an indication that he mitigated nearly all of the energy. So at this point, the scaling for Revan Reborn is (rightfully) absurd. We have:
Revan Reborn>>>Supercharged Nyriss>>>Nyriss>>Meetra~Malachor Traya>> Post-Drain Dantooine Kreia>Pre Drain Dantooine Kreia>>>The collective power of 3 above average Jedi masters

The frightening degree to which Revan scales above power capable of one-shotting multiple above-average Jedi masters simultaneously, coupled with the rarity of instances where powerful Jedi are being outright dominated, makes it likely that Revan Reborn should be on the same level as Count Dooku in power.

The Champion of Light

The Hero of Tython was the prophesized slayer of Vitiate and was stated to have immense potential:

Vitiate: You harness immense power, but you lack the purity of will to direct it.

Scourge: It is too late to turn you fully from the light...but should your children have a connection to the Force, I will see them properly trained.
HoT: A Sith Lord of my’s an intriguing thought.
Scourge: He would have power such as the galaxy has never seen.

The comment by Scourge is the interesting bit of info. Scourge is convinced that the HoT's child would possess power unlike anything the galaxy had ever seen(or at least unlike anything Scourge had ever seen). This is obviously referring to the immense latent potential that the HoT possesses. So Scourge is basically saying that the HoT potential is greater than the power wielded by Novel Revan or Novel Vitiate. In fact the term "unlike" means: "different from; not similar to", so Scourge is saying that the power of someone like Novel Revan or Novel Vitiate isn't even close enough to be considered of the same ilk, meaning the HoT's potential should be considerably beyond Revan Reborn according to Scourge. The rapid power growth that the HoT experiences can be shown to support the idea that the HoT's potential is beyond Revan Reborn.

As early as Act 1, the HoT was stated to be the most powerful member of the Jedi Order (link) making the HoT superior to individuals such as Tol Braga and Act 1 Barsen'thor. Tol Braga was powerful enough to stalemate a member of the Dark Council in a duel which lasted for three days (link). The HoT at this stage was powerful enough to defeat the Sith Lord Darth Angral in combat. Darth Angral was offered a seat on the Dark Council 20 years prior, after the Sacking of Coruscant. It's very likely that Angral grew considerably in this time as he was preparing for the moment where the war against the Jedi would begin anew (link). Not only that, but it's also very likely that Angral was rage amped as of his battle against the HoT, as the HoT was the man who killed his son (link). So as early as the end of Act 1 the HoT can be established to be above standard Dark Councilor tier power. And that's only the beginning. By the end of Act 2 the HoT was capable of stalemating Lord Scourge whereas in mid Act 2 Scourge is confident that he could've defeated both the HoT and the ex Dark Councilor Sajar simultaneously (link), This demonstrates that the HoT has grown far beyond Dark Councilor tier power by the end of Act 2. Lord Scourge's status in the Sith Empire also corroborates the idea that EoAct 2 HoT is beyond DC tier power. His power is said to be so great that the Dark Council fears him (link). Then by the end of Act 3, the HoT has grown so powerful that despite being on an enormously powerful nexus in Dromund Kaas, Act 3 Vitiate is stated to be no match for him (link). Comparatively, Scourge admits that even he would be utterly dominated by Vitiate's power (link). Thus, EoAct 3 HoT has grown far more powerful than even the DC++ power he wielded at the EoAct 2. Despite the enormous power that the HoT possesses by the end of Act 3, both Vitiate and Scourge assert that there is an enormous amount of untapped latent power in the HoT. Given that the average power of a Dark Councilor is unlikely to vary significantly across eras, it cannot be denied that parallels can be drawn between the absurd degree to which both Act 3 HoT and Revan Reborn scale wildly above DC tier power. Even if it's possible that the HoT isn't Revan Reborn's superior or even his equal, probability dictates that the HoT should definitely be approaching his level of power by the end of Act 3. Couple this with both Vitiate and Scourge stating that the HoT has an enormous amount of latent power, I think it's safe to conclude that the HoT's potential is considerably in excess of the power that was shown by Revan Reborn.

Valklander and The Dark Prince

In Ch 8 of KotFE, the Outlander faces Arcann in battle. If the player doesn’t accept Valkorion's power then Arcann casually ragdolls you and then impales you. However, if the player accepts Valkorion's power, Valkorion channels energy of such power that it damages the Outlander's body so much that he is rendered comatose for 2 days (link). Essentially the Outlander was suffering from the symptoms that occur when one channels energy in excess of their biological potential, only the damage done to the Outlander's body is by far the most severe case of the phenomena in the mythos. Ergo, the power that Valklander wielded against Arcann should be well beyond the HoT's potential. It is this energy that Arcann manages to block with a Force barrier for an extended period of time. While Arcann is eventually overwhelmed by Valklander's Force blast, this is due to Valkorion possessing absurd Force reserves that are disproportionately far greater than the limited amount of power he was able to channel through the Outlander's body. In essence, Valklander outlasted Arcann with disproportionately high Force reserves rather overpowering him. As a result, Arcann possesses power that greatly exceeds Revan Reborn or Novel Vitiate. So for those of you who like massive scaling chains, this one is as good as they come:
Arcann~Valklander Force blast>>Full Potential HoT>>Revan Reborn~Count Dooku.

Dooku's Old Man Stamina

Dooku notoriously gets tired quickly in combat. In AotC, Dooku is stated to be tired after facing AotC Anakin and Kenobi in combat (link), neither of whom were superior to Dooku. In RotS, Dooku gets fatigued at an astonishingly quick rate when pressed by someone far more powerful than he is in Anakin Skywalker:

Dooku felt himself blanch. Where had this come from? Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength—not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing—

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade. He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again. He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony.

Dooku traditionally deals with being pressed in such a manner by using Force lightning or some other Force offense. However this avenue for Victory isn't possible against Arcann, his Force defense is too airtight for a lightning blast to work in the same manner it has against individuals like TCW Anakin (link). Arcann is going to press Dooku and Dooku is going to have to take it like the decrepit old man he is.


Arcann has been demonstrated to be considerably beyond the HoT's full potential, which was in turn demonstrated to be considerably beyond the power wielded by Revan Reborn and Novel Vitiate. Considering the high probability that Revan Reborn alone is on Dooku's level, Arcann's significant power superiority is blatantly apparent. Dooku's track record shows that he's going to get tired very quickly trying to keep up with Arcann's augmentation, and Dooku's usual avenue for dealing with matchups like this, his offensive Force powers, will utterly fail against Arcann. Arcann's Force defenses are too superb for this strategy to be effective, so when Arcann presses him there will be no avenue for escape. Really I don't see how this ends any other way than:

SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66) 4873103-9068447334-pcMPk
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SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66) Empty Re: SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66)

March 22nd 2020, 2:11 pm
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SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66) Empty Re: SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66)

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