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QuakeBlood
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on January 17th 2020, 11:55 pm
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Rey as of ROS
Location : Neutral Ground - Kashyyyk
DarthAdi
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on January 17th 2020, 11:57 pm
Still Snoke
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on January 18th 2020, 12:24 am
Snoke.
BoD
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on January 18th 2020, 3:46 am
Snoke still ragdolls.
Meatpants
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on January 18th 2020, 4:49 am
I think TPM Maul would tool her at this point.
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on January 18th 2020, 5:42 am
Meatpants (away) wrote:I think TPM Maul would tool her at this point.
Nah, he'd fall off another ledge as he was about to kill her.
Divina
Divina

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on January 18th 2020, 5:48 am
id say rey because she was able to take down palpatine, who i think is better than snoke
UnquantifiableCharacter77
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on January 18th 2020, 5:57 am
@Divina wrote:id say rey because she was able to take down palpatine, who i think is better than snoke

Rey was amped by the power of every Jedi to ever exist. It's not applicable to her base state, wherein she was ragdolled by Sheev alongside Kylo, her superior.
Divina
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on January 18th 2020, 6:00 am
the post doesnt say base state, and also says as of ROS when she was powered by jedi. that being said idk if her without all of the jedi would win this one
UnquantifiableCharacter77
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on January 18th 2020, 6:15 am
Rey wasn't amped for most of TROS and the default assumption for all threads unless explicitly noted otherwise is that the characters are operating at base, without circumstantial one time amps.
Divina
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on January 18th 2020, 6:16 am
even without the amp im not sure that snoke would win... though its a good fight
FireStarLord73194
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on January 18th 2020, 6:18 am
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:
@Divina wrote:id say rey because she was able to take down palpatine, who i think is better than snoke

Rey was amped by the power of every Jedi to ever exist. It's not applicable to her base state, wherein she was ragdolled by Sheev alongside Kylo, her superior.

Palpatine was also amped by "ALL THE SITH"
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on January 18th 2020, 6:34 am
That's not relevant to my point. Snoke vs Rey - REMATCH 1220391476
Rohirrim
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on January 18th 2020, 10:18 am
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Rey wasn't amped for most of TROS and the default assumption for all threads unless explicitly noted otherwise is that the characters are operating at base, without circumstantial one time amps.
What's the rationale behind it being a circumstantial one time amp? It looked like she was training to do that and the voices kinda said they will always be with her. Why wouldn't they amp her again if need be?
UnquantifiableCharacter77
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on January 18th 2020, 10:23 am
@Rohirrim: Because there's no evidence suggesting she can do it any time she wants. The fact that Rey trained to do it doesn't automatically mean she can replicate it at will, despite failing repeatedly and only accomplishing it once while in a state of emotional turmoil and on the verge of mass galactic genocide that would have ended all she holds dear.
Rohirrim
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on January 18th 2020, 10:33 am
@DC77 (Reborn): I mean, usually when characters are training to do something and they finally do it it's because they've learned to, and dialogue implies the Jedi now live in her. There's no evidence suggesting it was only temporary either.
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on March 1st 2020, 2:03 pm
@Rohirrim:

I mean, usually when characters are training to do something and they finally do it it's because they've learned to, and dialogue implies the Jedi now live in her.

Yeah... she managed to be capable of it, but only under extreme circumstances. Nothing remotely suggests she's capable of replicating it at will should she so desire.

There's no evidence suggesting it was only temporary either.

No reason to think it was permanent either, and I'd argue there's more evidence to the contrary.
Rohirrim
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on March 1st 2020, 2:20 pm
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:
I mean, usually when characters are training to do something and they finally do it it's because they've learned to, and dialogue implies the Jedi now live in her.

Yeah... she managed to be capable of it, but only under extreme circumstances. Nothing remotely suggests she's capable of replicating it at will should she so desire.

Except Qui-Gon telling her "every Jedi who ever lived, lives in you" and the fact she was training to do so. It's a common trope that characters learn to do something they were training for over the course of a movie. Not that it's proof (we will know when the novelization comes out) but it certainly is "remote suggestion".

There's no evidence suggesting it was only temporary either.

No reason to think it was permanent either, and I'd argue there's more evidence to the contrary.

Argue it then and provide that evidence.
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on March 1st 2020, 2:25 pm
@Rohirrim:

Except Qui-Gon telling her "every Jedi who ever lived, lives in you" and the fact she was training to do so.

In that moment sure. That's not an indication she can do it at will.

It's a common trope that characters learn to do something they were training for over the course of a movie. Not that it's proof (we will know when the novelization comes out) but it certainly is "remote suggestion".

In Rey's case I don't think it applies. It's not something consistently emphasised she was training for across the course of the film which she ends up mastering, it's something that was mentioned once or twice in the movie that she was training for, then happened under the most intense circumstances possible. Feels more like an amp than a mastered technique.

Argue it then and provide that evidence.

The fact that it's from an external source leaves me believing that it likely wasn't permanent (That's a general presendent set in SW).


Last edited by DC77 (Reborn) on March 1st 2020, 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Rohirrim
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on March 1st 2020, 2:58 pm
@DC77 (Reborn):

In that moment sure. That's not an indication she can do it at will.

The voices said "every Jedi who ever lived, lives in you", "feel the Force flowing through you, Rey", "let it lift you", "Rey, the Force will be with you, always". We know that some of the Jedi that she heard didn't retain their consciousness and passed into the cosmic Force, which is what Rey is tapping into. That sequence of words from the Jedi past, plus the fact she was training to do that very thing (so a Jedi could possibly learn how to do that), could be an indication that she can do it again. 


In Rey's case I don't think it applies. It's not something consistently emphasised she was training for across the course of the film which she ends up mastering, it's something that was mentioned once or twice in the movie that she was trainig for, then happened under the most intense circumstances possible. Feels more like an amp than a mastered technique.

You admit that it was mentioned that she was training to do that, so it could very well apply. It being an amp, which it likely is, doesn't mean it can't also be a mastered technique (i.e. that she learned how to amp herself with the power of the cosmic Force).



The fact that it's from an external source leaves me believing that it likely wasn't permanent (That's a general presendent set in SW).

There's nothing established preventing Rey from accessing that power again. It could be like a Galaxy-wide nexus to her, considering we are talking about the cosmic Force. The claim that she was only temporarily amped is not supported by current evidence.
IG
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on March 1st 2020, 3:10 pm
@Rohirrim wrote:@DC77 (Reborn):

In that moment sure. That's not an indication she can do it at will.

The voices said "every Jedi who ever lived, lives in you", "feel the Force flowing through you, Rey", "let it lift you", "Rey, the Force will be with you, always". We know that some of the Jedi that she heard didn't retain their consciousness and passed into the cosmic Force, which is what Rey is tapping into. That sequence of words from the Jedi past, plus the fact she was training to do that very thing (so a Jedi could possibly learn how to do that), could be an indication that she can do it again. 


In Rey's case I don't think it applies. It's not something consistently emphasised she was training for across the course of the film which she ends up mastering, it's something that was mentioned once or twice in the movie that she was trainig for, then happened under the most intense circumstances possible. Feels more like an amp than a mastered technique.

You admit that it was mentioned that she was training to do that, so it could very well apply. It being an amp, which it likely is, doesn't mean it can't also be a mastered technique (i.e. that she learned how to amp herself with the power of the cosmic Force).



The fact that it's from an external source leaves me believing that it likely wasn't permanent (That's a general presendent set in SW).

There's nothing established preventing Rey from accessing that power again. It could be like a Galaxy-wide nexus to her, considering we are talking about the cosmic Force. The claim that she was only temporarily amped is not supported by current evidence.
One question. Why can Rey do it, yet we've never seen it happen before (Luke v Vader, Luke v Sidious, Mace v Sidious, Yoda v Sidious, Anakin v Obi-Wan, etc)? We all know the OOU reasons (JJ Abrams sucks), but in terms of IU, can you really explain it? I doubt one can claim "Well Yoda and Luke and Anakin didn't do their training" or something like that.
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on March 1st 2020, 3:13 pm
@Rohirrim:

Good points. I guess I'll concede that it's unknown whether it's permanent or temporary and whether Rey can do it again should she so wish, especially since my interest in dragging out a canon debate is minimal.


Last edited by DC77 (Reborn) on March 1st 2020, 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Rohirrim
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on March 1st 2020, 3:20 pm
@DC77 (Reborn): Okay. The novelization will likely provide an answer, which might very well be that the amp is temporary. So yeah, it's kinda pointless to argue either way in the mean time.
Rohirrim
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on March 1st 2020, 3:35 pm
@IG: It could stem from her studying the ancient Jedi texts. The healing abilities that she displays, for example, are beyond what the PT Jedi era show, and are described in those texts according to the RoS Visual Dictionary. The fact that Force techniques are unlocked with the mind also complicates things. Maybe in that moment she tried something different or managed to "quiet" her mind in the right way, as Qui-Gon would say. Then again, it might also be that the Jedi waited until then to help her (though I see no reason for that).
EDIT: And yeah, you're right on JJ.
QuakeBlood
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on March 25th 2020, 3:19 am
bump!
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