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Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 3:04 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:In those cases, Lucas would just override what the EU said (e.g. when Yoda went to Dagobah) unless Chee and LFL make an exception (e.g. origins of the Sith).

Ok, so then people who keep bringing up Kotor era being the prime of the Jedi combat wise are wrong then, cause Lucas has said the prime of the Jedi is during the PT era.

I mean if we're gonna go that route.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 3:09 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:
@DarthAnt66 wrote:In those cases, Lucas would just override what the EU said (e.g. when Yoda went to Dagobah) unless Chee and LFL make an exception (e.g. origins of the Sith).

Ok, so then people who keep bringing up Kotor era being the prime of the Jedi combat wise are wrong then, cause Lucas has said the prime of the Jedi is during the PT era.

I mean if we're gonna go that route.

The few who say KOTOR is the prime of the Jedi don't think Lucas is referring specifically to the PT though. If he was, then yeah. Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 1289255181
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 3:12 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@DarthAnt66 wrote:
@Zenwolf wrote:
@DarthAnt66 wrote:In those cases, Lucas would just override what the EU said (e.g. when Yoda went to Dagobah) unless Chee and LFL make an exception (e.g. origins of the Sith).

Ok, so then people who keep bringing up Kotor era being the prime of the Jedi combat wise are wrong then, cause Lucas has said the prime of the Jedi is during the PT era.

I mean if we're gonna go that route.

The few who say KOTOR is the prime of the Jedi don't think Lucas is referring specifically to the PT though. If he was, then yeah. Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 1289255181

I don't see how they can misinterpret it, since he was talking about the PT, specifically the duel with Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon vs Maul and saying that this would showcase the Jedi in their prime.

But at any rate, I don't think Lucas would really care much if his word was contradicted by EU works, because Vader clearly shows speed that is very fast compared to Lucas saying he is slow in various works across the years.

If he was that strict on it, I'm sure someone like Lee would have called the authors and say "Hey this and this is wrong, Vader can't do that."
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 3:19 pm
You're welcome to debate that with them then.

LFL policy is LFL policy, though. LFL officials (Hidalgo) have also came out and said AOTC Anakin > Vader, largely due to the suit handicaps. The EU has generally shown and stated Vader to be relatively slow in most sources too -- at least compared to Jedi speeds (e.g. many Purge-era Jedi, Galen Marek, ESB Luke Skywalker, etc.).
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 3:31 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:You're welcome to debate that with them then.

LFL policy is LFL policy, though. LFL officials (Hidalgo) have also came out and said AOTC Anakin > Vader, largely due to the suit handicaps. The EU has generally shown and stated Vader to be relatively slow in most sources too -- at least compared to Jedi speeds (e.g. many Purge-era Jedi, Galen Marek, ESB Luke Skywalker, etc.).

At the same time though, Vader has also shown to keep up with them. If he couldn't, then he would be taking more damage than he has seen to be taken during combat.


Last edited by Zenwolf on December 9th 2019, 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 3:32 pm
No one's disputing that though. Lucas' commentary doesn't contradict that either. He also indicates Vader gets faster between ANH and ESB.
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 3:39 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:No one's disputing that though. Lucas' commentary doesn't contradict that either. He also indicates Vader gets faster between ANH and ESB.

I suppose so. I mean that's fair too. 

I'm not saying Vader is like a speedster or anything, but I'm not saying he's gonna be a slow turtle either.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 4:29 pm
the 80% one, or the anakin one?
The Witness
The Witness

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 5:54 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:No one's disputing that though. Lucas' commentary doesn't contradict that either. He also indicates Vader gets faster between ANH and ESB.
Was it an in universe indication or was he talking purely about the improvement in choreography ?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
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Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 6:02 pm
@The Witness wrote:
@DarthAnt66 wrote:No one's disputing that though. Lucas' commentary doesn't contradict that either. He also indicates Vader gets faster between ANH and ESB.
Was it an in universe indication or was he talking purely about the improvement in choreography ?
Improvement in choreography:

He couldn’t move at all, really. We had to keep modifying the suit so people could move in it. By the time we got to the first light-saber battle, we realized we weren’t going to be able to do much. And so I accepted it was an old man vs. a half-man, half-machine. But Jedi were supposed to be quite active. So for the next one, we got a really good stunt guy in, one of the best sword fighters in England. And Mark Hamill is a good sword fighter. 
The Witness
The Witness

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 6:08 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:You're welcome to debate that with them then.

LFL policy is LFL policy, though. LFL officials (Hidalgo) have also came out and said AOTC Anakin > Vader, largely due to the suit handicaps. The EU has generally shown and stated Vader to be relatively slow in most sources too -- at least compared to Jedi speeds (e.g. many Purge-era Jedi, Galen Marek, ESB Luke Skywalker, etc.).
Hidalgo never said AOTC Anakin is superior to Vader. He never specified what version.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
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Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 9th 2019, 6:16 pm
@The Witness Do you have the quote?
Meatpants
Meatpants
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Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 10th 2019, 2:28 am
Well I don’t think it’s as simple as Lucas > anything contradicting. For example Sith ghosts. I think it’s more a case-by-case basis, but generally Lucas’ is the ultimate authority. For example with TPM, the ramp fight between Jinn and Maul on Tatooine is in the script, adult novelisation, Illustrated Screenplay and a deleted scene in the movie itself, I consider that a G-canon override to other sources saying Maul didn’t follow onto the ramp.
O-Siri
O-Siri

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 10th 2019, 6:09 am
The problem is that there's no way to reasonably argue the ramp scene took place offscreen unlike say the Probe Droid or the Greedo Brawl. It's the reason all but one outlier adaptation omits the scene because the movie canon makes it clear it never happened in continuity; The Wrath of Darth Maul, for example, used the novelization and the screenplay as a source of inspiration, as seen the author's acknowledgment section, but selectively omitted the scene most likely because it's not considered canon, as established by its exclusion from the final cut. The novel was written and edited before the final cut and the illustrated screenplay is just a rough draft they are both dated sources. The other aforementioned deleted scenes can plausibly take place offscreen and as such are referenced in subsequent works. 

Now that said I have no issue with people using feats from the scene as the performance itself doesn't contradict Jinn's power as established by the lore,  and I highly doubt that was the reason it was cut, more likey for pacing reasons.
Dolph
Dolph
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Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

on December 10th 2019, 10:46 am
G Canon is the highest tier of canon, so yes, we should.
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Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 3 Empty Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

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