Re: Yoda vs. Count Dooku & Darth Vader

November 30th 2019, 5:05 pm

That's why I said "as well". The point is they are both inferior to Yoda. I don't think Dooku is that much better than Vader to suggest he can contend better than him, or vice versa.
That said, I think the team can potentially take this.

November 30th 2019, 7:42 pm

HellfireUnit wrote:Lol no, that's a weak case. His power level is still the same. This isn't Kylo Ren against Rey. Yoda is faster than Anakin can comprehend, insanely more powerful and skilled with the Force and a better saber combatant. He decimates KFV if he is going to fight like he did against Palpatine.

Bruh. Welp, lets take this piece by piece.

1. Anakin wasn't actively augmenting his senses in the force, so of course he wasn't able to see them. Unless of course, you're willing to say Kit fisto is faster than Anakin since he could trade blows with sheev. Which would be high level meme thinking.

2. Yoda is not drastically more powerful than Anakin lmfao. Not when Anakin has multiple accolades as of RotS as the most powerful jedi in history.

3. Yoda is not a better saber combatant. They are both tier 9 duelists and in fact Anakin has been stated to have the least amount of flaws in his form out of the tier 9s.

Also to address MFV vs Kenobi. Vader was heavily hindered hindered and was not at all to KFV in applicable power. We know this because KFV is >Zonakin who absolutely decimated Dooku. Dooku in turned wrecked Kenobi. So it should be fairly obvious that KFV is absolutely enormously above Kenobi.

It is likely that KFV is straight up greater than Yoda, but it is indisputable that they are at least on the same level. To think KFV is getting shredded by Yoda is utterly laughable.

Missed arguing with you brother.

good to see you back.

November 30th 2019, 8:24 pm

Thanks mate, I'll write a respond to that tomorrow.

November 30th 2019, 8:30 pm

The only way KFV is better than Yoda is if you believe Sidious > Yoda. KFV/MFV at his peak was = Sidious, which puts him on the same level as Yoda and Sidious with no clear edge.

OT: Which Vader? If KFV/MFV, he could maybe solo for a minority. If suited, him and Dooku combined might just be enough to put Yoda down.

November 30th 2019, 8:37 pm

i dont put dark side anakin> yoda, as i think he is still portrayed as being above, but yeah, they are close. i do also think yoda is the better duelist of the two, with anakin coming right behind, then dooku, then sheev, but they are all kinda close imo. anakin stomping dooku has to do with stamina, strength, and speed more than anything.

December 3rd 2019, 1:09 pm

KingofBlades wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Lol no, that's a weak case. His power level is still the same. This isn't Kylo Ren against Rey. Yoda is faster than Anakin can comprehend, insanely more powerful and skilled with the Force and a better saber combatant. He decimates KFV if he is going to fight like he did against Palpatine.

Bruh. Welp, lets take this piece by piece.

1. Anakin wasn't actively augmenting his senses in the force, so of course he wasn't able to see them. Unless of course, you're willing to say Kit fisto is faster than Anakin since he could trade blows with sheev. Which would be high level meme thinking.

2. Yoda is not drastically more powerful than Anakin lmfao. Not when Anakin has multiple accolades as of RotS as the most powerful jedi in history.

3. Yoda is not a better saber combatant. They are both tier 9 duelists and in fact Anakin has been stated to have the least amount of flaws in his form out of the tier 9s.

Also to address MFV vs Kenobi. Vader was heavily hindered hindered and was not at all to KFV in applicable power. We know this because KFV is >Zonakin who absolutely decimated Dooku. Dooku in turned wrecked Kenobi. So it should be fairly obvious that KFV is absolutely enormously above Kenobi.

It is likely that KFV is straight up greater than Yoda, but it is indisputable that they are at least on the same level. To think KFV is getting shredded by Yoda is utterly laughable.

Missed arguing with you brother.

good to see you back.

1 - The only reason Fisto lasted briefly against Sheev was because he had Mace at his side. Once the Mr. Tentacles ass died, the duel got a lot faster. Also still no indication of Anakin'i senses not being honed since the latter can react to sub-lightspeed. And if he is even near as fast as Yoda and Palpatine, he would speedblitz Obi-Wan.

2 - Anakin being the most powerful Jedi in the history only refers to his potential. Anakin never displayed such feats as stomping an army and ships with his TK alone. If he had been as powerful as Yoda or Sidious, the latter would be able to ragdoll Kenobi in the first place.

3 - Yoda is a better combatant and there are many accolades to support it. Anakin having the least flaws doesn't mean he is a better combatant. Besides, it is about the characters and their respective forms, Yoda uses Ataru to overcome his aging. As Mace said to Kenobi he and Yoda's forms are based upon the overcome their flaws/weaknesses. Djem So's only weakness is mobility and Anakin seem to overcome this issue therefore it is normal he has the least flaws including the others.

4 - MFV being hindered is an excuse to explain Anakin's defeat at the Kenobi's hands, nothing else. Kenobi only won due to his form, will and extreme knowledge he had about Anakin. Anakin's only disadvantages were his pride, rage and impatience which he had prior to MFV and throughout all his life. Also KFV being > Zonakin is a myth. It was a rare occasion where his will played the most significant part just as RotJ Vader being able to restrain Sidious and kill him. Besides, if Vader was a higher threat than Sidious, Yoda would not send Kenobi against him. He clearly said Kenobi cannot match Emperor's powers. Anakin is far less powerful than either at that moment.

Also good to see you still around here KoB, even if not as active as you used to be.

Ps: Sorry for the formatting, I am on mobile and once I get to PC, I'll edit it.

December 3rd 2019, 1:16 pm

@HellfireUnit Why should Sids/Yoda be able to ragdoll or speed blitz Kenobi when Sheev can't even do that to Maul? Kenobi's performance against Anakin can be attributed to his familiarity with his former apprentice, and him playing a defensive game with a style that conserves energy. It in no way demonstrates the two are equals, not even close. Also, Lucas's statement about Anakin having equal power to Sheev, and Nick's about Anakin being the 9 with the least flaws are clearly not referring to potential, and are both indicative of Lucas's intent when constructing the film. I couldn't care less about Anakin seeing Sheev/Windu as a blur, that happens when your senses aren't dialled up and you're watching the engagement as a neutral observer.

December 3rd 2019, 1:18 pm

Yoda dies

December 3rd 2019, 1:23 pm

HellfireUnit wrote:2 - Anakin being the most powerful Jedi in the history only refers to his potential. Anakin never displayed such feats as stomping an army and ships with his TK alone. If he had been as powerful as Yoda or Sidious, the latter would be able to ragdoll Kenobi in the first place.

Revenge of the Sith wrote:"The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace."

Revenge of the Sith wrote:"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger."

That is just not true in any shape or form, and I have many more G.O.A.T quotes to supply you with, if you'd like.

December 3rd 2019, 1:26 pm

O-Siri wrote:Team if they play it cautiously. Yoda seems to be vulnerable to Force counters when he's mid-air, Dooku was able to exploit it once. If Yoda has to split his concentration back and forth between two high caliber opponents he's going to leave more openings for them to exploit, ala Florrum. He can't commit his full strength to either one without getting tagged and in a war of attrition he should burn out first.

I still stand by this. Both Vader and Dooku are proactive Force users and Yoda's not invincible to Force based counters. Sidious would have a better chance of beating both of them, Yoda's physical limitations are too much for this match up.

December 3rd 2019, 1:33 pm

I'll respond to you all fellas. Keep in touch. Whoever wanked Anakin this far, I will destroy what you started.

December 3rd 2019, 1:37 pm

HellfireUnit wrote:I'll respond to you all fellas. Keep in touch. Whoever wanked Anakin this far, I will destroy what you started.

What I'm saying is, Anakin is ~> Yoda ~ Sidious as of RotS. Come back when you're ready.

December 3rd 2019, 1:39 pm

Which is absolutely wrong and I'll make cases about it.

December 3rd 2019, 1:51 pm

HellfireUnit wrote:Which is absolutely wrong and I'll make cases about it.

George Lucas wrote:somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.

December 3rd 2019, 1:54 pm

i love how that comment also implies that vader could never get stronger than that, and was like that forever, but yeah,anakin as a dark sider=< sheev.

December 3rd 2019, 2:11 pm

Vader couldn't. He was locked below both Anakin and Sheev.

December 3rd 2019, 2:41 pm

I probably should do a blog about this but for now, I'll post here.

December 3rd 2019, 2:53 pm

yeah, but see, he kinda already does by being 80% of ROTJ sheev, who is>>> ROTS sheev, who is> dark side anakin.

December 3rd 2019, 3:02 pm

80% is completely unquantifiable. From Lucas's own mouth we have an exact, quantifiable quote locking Vader as of ESB beneath Anakin.

December 3rd 2019, 3:08 pm

no, 80% is pretty quantifiable. if sheev is a 100, vader is an 80. if sheev is a 1000, vader is a 800. anything vader can do, sheev can do 1.25 times better. thats about it. and from lucas' own mouth, thats where vader stands.

if u really wanna tell me that anakin is more far more than 80% of ROTJ sheev, u can go right ahead, but thats where this convo stops lol

December 3rd 2019, 3:13 pm

Argument can be made in favor of %80 quote but I agree with DC, it is a complex matter.

December 3rd 2019, 4:16 pm

EmperorCaedus wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:I'll respond to you all fellas. Keep in touch. Whoever wanked Anakin this far, I will destroy what you started.

What I'm saying is, Anakin is ~> Yoda ~ Sidious as of RotS. Come back when you're ready.

Wrong.

December 3rd 2019, 4:17 pm

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:80% is completely unquantifiable. From Lucas's own mouth we have an exact, quantifiable quote locking Vader as of ESB beneath Anakin.

What quote?

December 3rd 2019, 4:20 pm

BreakofDawn wrote:

EmperorCaedus wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:I'll respond to you all fellas. Keep in touch. Whoever wanked Anakin this far, I will destroy what you started.

What I'm saying is, Anakin is ~> Yoda ~ Sidious as of RotS. Come back when you're ready.

Wrong.

Mind telling me how instead of just saying “wrong.”

December 3rd 2019, 4:37 pm

@BreakOfDawn: Here.

@lorenzo.r.2nd: So, just to be clear, a quote from Lucas's own mouth about Vader's vast inferiority to Anakin doesn't matter, but a vague percentage of which Lucas himself is uncertain does? To quote your own words "I think that's where this convo stops".