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GuestGuest
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 8th 2019, 7:36 pm
Vader just keeps taking more Ls.
HeartoftheForceLevel Two
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 8th 2019, 9:00 pm
So Lucas told Blackman that the Emperor thought Vader was weaker. Then Blackman wrote a novel to prove that wrong?
Also link is please
Also link is please
DarthAnt66Moderator
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 8th 2019, 9:35 pm
Greysentinel365 wrote:So Lucas told Blackman that the Emperor thought Vader was weaker.
Blackman says how he originally conceived Vader >> Anakin, then Lucas clarified Palpatine views him as weak and broken, and this made Blackman sad. If that was just Palpatine's inaccurate POV, I don't see its relevance or why Blackman would be sad afterwards.
Then Blackman wrote a novel to prove that wrong?
Also link is please
https://www.newsarama.com/6901-haden-blackman-leads-darth-vader-lost-command-to-battle.html
CuckedCurryLevel Four
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 2:41 am
“One of the overriding feedback answers was that they wanted the apprentice to be human, athletic and powerful. Not too powerful though, as he shouldn't eclipse Vader.”
https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2008/jul/14/starwarsforceunleashednew
https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2008/jul/14/starwarsforceunleashednew
Latham2000Level Three
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 5:58 am
So that’s an instance of an EU author following the notion that Anakin > Vader. Noice.
Gideon/Tempest
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 9:49 am
Greysentinel365 wrote:So Lucas told Blackman that the Emperor thought Vader was weaker. Then Blackman wrote a novel to prove that wrong?
Also link is please
This.
There’s honestly nothing insightful or decisive about this. Lucas has regarded Vader as “broken” for years and the Emperor outright calls Vader broken in TFU when he tried to snare Starkiller.
If anything, this is proof that Blackman doesn’t regard Vader as weak and effectively disregarded Lucas’s take on the character by writing Vader as a badass.
BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 11:38 am
Good to see that Ant is continuing to debunk the general consensus that TFU Vader >> KFV.
SithSauceLevel One
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 11:58 am
It's not even a consensusBreakofDawn wrote:Good to see that Ant is continuing to debunk the general consensus that TFU Vader >> KFV.
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 12:01 pm
...SithSauce wrote:It's not even a consensusBreakofDawn wrote:Good to see that Ant is continuing to debunk the general consensus that TFU Vader >> KFV.
KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 12:02 pm
r/woosh
- SithSauceLevel One
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 12:08 pm
Yeah cuz Vader is the only character in Star Wars who is vastly inferior to Anakin :\StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:Vader just keeps taking more Ls.
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 12:15 pm
Since we're on the topic of Vader, this is probably as good a place to post as any to do with this obsession with everything Lucas says about Vader being the word of God to any continuity involving Vader, especially Legends:
"We've actually never seen real Jedi at work, we've only seen crippled half-droid half-men and young boys that have learned from these old people. So to see a Jedi in his prime fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I want it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing"
- George Lucas, Star Wars Episode I: Fights Featurette, 1999.
Fast-forward to 2005:
Just how restrictive was that costume?
He couldn’t move at all, really. We had to keep modifying the suit so people could move in it. By the time we got to the first light-saber battle, we realized we weren’t going to be able to do much. And so I accepted it was an old man vs. a half-man, half-machine. But Jedi were supposed to be quite active. So for the next one, we got a really good stunt guy in, one of the best sword fighters in England. And Mark Hamill is a good sword fighter. For the final film, Hayden [Christensen] and Obi-Wan – I mean Ewan – took it very seriously; they trained for months. Those swords are carbon fiber: We went through lots of them, because they were hitting so hard, they would get bent. It’s like learning to dance, only if you make a mistake, you really get hurt.
- George Lucas and the cult of Darth Vader, 2005.
So I guess Vader did massively improve between ANH and ESB based on Lucas' statements.
"We've actually never seen real Jedi at work, we've only seen crippled half-droid half-men and young boys that have learned from these old people. So to see a Jedi in his prime fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I want it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing"
- George Lucas, Star Wars Episode I: Fights Featurette, 1999.
Fast-forward to 2005:
Just how restrictive was that costume?
He couldn’t move at all, really. We had to keep modifying the suit so people could move in it. By the time we got to the first light-saber battle, we realized we weren’t going to be able to do much. And so I accepted it was an old man vs. a half-man, half-machine. But Jedi were supposed to be quite active. So for the next one, we got a really good stunt guy in, one of the best sword fighters in England. And Mark Hamill is a good sword fighter. For the final film, Hayden [Christensen] and Obi-Wan – I mean Ewan – took it very seriously; they trained for months. Those swords are carbon fiber: We went through lots of them, because they were hitting so hard, they would get bent. It’s like learning to dance, only if you make a mistake, you really get hurt.
- George Lucas and the cult of Darth Vader, 2005.
So I guess Vader did massively improve between ANH and ESB based on Lucas' statements.
- KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 12:21 pm
If you wanna run with this logic then alright. I agree. Vader increased massively but is still sub tpm Kenobi
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 12:22 pm
KingofBlades wrote:If you wanna run with this logic then alright. I agree. Vader increased massively but is still sub tpm Kenobi
- GuestGuest
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 12:29 pm
SithSauce wrote:Yeah cuz Vader is the only character in Star Wars who is vastly inferior to Anakin :\StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:Vader just keeps taking more Ls.
That doesn't have relevance to my original statement.- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 12:31 pm
I mean, you said it like it was bad for Vader to be vaguely > KFV or unhindered MFV so his reply does kind of have relevance.StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:SithSauce wrote:Yeah cuz Vader is the only character in Star Wars who is vastly inferior to Anakin :\StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:Vader just keeps taking more Ls.
NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 3:16 pm
Not what he said.
MasterCilghalLevel Three
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 3:37 pm
We can say that, on an emotional level, Vader actually grew: he’s no longer an unstable young man, but rather a calculating and intelligent villain, which is what makes him a scary character. I think that’s what Blackman was trying to do here: The emperor is right in saying that he lost a lot of the power but the same cannot be said about his emotional side.
- Gideon/Tempest
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 3:54 pm
MasterCilghal wrote:We can say that, on an emotional level, Vader actually grew: he’s no longer an unstable young man, but rather a calculating and intelligent villain, which is what makes him a scary character. I think that’s what Blackman was trying to do here: The emperor is right in saying that he lost a lot of the power but the same cannot be said about his emotional side.
It’s been years since I’ve read Blackman’s Vader comics, but I recall him kicking ass and taking names in both Ghost Prison and the Lost Command, not just being a stoic cipher.
It’s painfully obvious from all the Vader centric works Blackman’s been involved with, including TFU and TFU2, that he perceives Vader differently than Lucas does. Vader in all the above is presented as an outright badass and Force wielding monstrosity, not a scrub who gets by through mere cunning.
Now whether or not that’s enough to nullify the weight of Lucas’s belief is a matter of personal choice, but anyone who thinks this interview establishes consensus between Lucas and Blackman about Vader is either willfully ignorant or should immediately renew their Hooked On Phonics subscription.
- GuestGuest
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 3:56 pm
BreakofDawn wrote:I mean, you said it like it was bad for Vader to be vaguely > KFV or unhindered MFV so his reply does kind of have relevance.StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:SithSauce wrote:Yeah cuz Vader is the only character in Star Wars who is vastly inferior to Anakin :\StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:Vader just keeps taking more Ls.
As DC said, that was not my original statement.
- DarthAnt66Moderator
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 4:09 pm
There’s honestly nothing insightful or decisive about this. Lucas has regarded Vader as “broken” for years and the Emperor outright calls Vader broken in TFU when he tried to snare Starkiller.
Not at all. This offers clarification on how Palpatine perceives Vader -- it's not clear if Palpatine's mockery of Vader in TFU is genuine (rather than just trying to convert Marek), and many debaters (e.g. Azronger) have pointed to other quotes that suggest Palpatine had/has a relatively favorable opinion of Vader.
If anything, this is proof that Blackman doesn’t regard Vader as weak
Well, Blackman regards Vader as crippled relative to Anakin. Again, insightful.
and effectively disregarded Lucas’s take on the character by writing Vader as a badass.
Blackman maximized Vader's image within the constraints of Lucas' limiting framework. I don't think he "disregarded" anything. If he did, then that would be a contradiction, in which Lucas' conception would retcon Blackman's (Lucas' scribbles on notepads is worth more, within the Holocron system, than any EU comic series).
- MasterCilghalLevel Three
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 4:12 pm
Gideon/Tempest wrote:It’s been years since I’ve read Blackman’s Vader comics, but I recall him kicking ass and taking names in both Ghost Prison and the Lost Command, not just being a stoic cipher.
It’s painfully obvious from all the Vader centric works Blackman’s been involved with, including TFU and TFU2, that he perceives Vader differently than Lucas does. Vader in all the above is presented as an outright badass and Force wielding monstrosity, not a scrub who gets by through mere cunning.
I never read the comic you mention, I was basing my assertion on what’s presented here. Well, in that case there is no question the two have a different view on Vader. Have said that, I do think what I said is generally the case with him.
- Gideon/Tempest
Re: Hayden Blackman on Lucas, Vader vs Anakin
October 9th 2019, 5:14 pm
DarthAnt66 wrote:
Not at all. This offers clarification on how Palpatine perceives Vader -- it's not clear if Palpatine's mockery of Vader in TFU is genuine (rather than just trying to convert Marek),
As far as I'm aware, the Emperor regarding post-Mustafar Vader as a disappointment compared to pre-Mustafar Vader and, more importantly, the Vader pre-Mustafar Vader could've become was the prevailing consensus until the Disney buyout.
Any "insights" offered from this interview are a mere regurgitation of what's already been said elsewhere, including page 33 of The Art and Making of The Force Unleashed:
It's been 11 years, but I'm fairly certain permutations of that sentiment can be found in a lot of the publicity surrounding TFU.
and many debaters (e.g. Azronger) have pointed to other quotes that suggest Palpatine had/has a relatively favorable opinion of Vader.
The Emperor does indeed have quotes and musings that indicate a favorable opinion of Vader, including the last chapter of Stover's Revenge of the Sith novelization to the reborn Emperor's assessment of Vader in The Essential Guide to the Force.
But that's because different authors have different takes on the character. Lucas, on the other hand, has been crooning his ballad about Vader for the better part of 16 years at least.
Well, Blackman regards Vader as crippled relative to Anakin. Again, insightful.
Not precisely. Lucas thinks that and Blackman cedes that while Lucas and the Emperor might have a point, Blackman says he thinks Vader is "the most badass villain ever created" and specifically wrote The Lost Command as a way to rekindle his awe of Vader and, in part, to prove the Emperor (and by extension, Lucas) wrong.
And that's just particularly insightful: We know Lucas regards Vader is crippled relative to Anakin and have known that for years.
Blackman maximized Vader's image within the constraints of Lucas' limiting framework. I don't think he "disregarded" anything. If he did, then that would be a contradiction, in which Lucas' conception would retcon Blackman's (Lucas' scribbles on notepads is worth more, within the Holocron system, than any EU comic series).
Blackman regards Vader as the most badass villain ever whereas Lucas... doesn't. Whether you want to regard this is an outright contradiction between the two or a cynical effort by Blackman to pay lipservice to Lucas's edicts while disregarding their substance is your call and there's basis for either interpretation, but I'm just saying: it's clearly not consensus.
MasterCighal wrote:I never read the comic you mention, I was basing my assertion on what’s presented here. Well, in that case there is no question the two have a different view on Vader. Have said that, I do think what I said is generally the case with him.
You should check them out: Ghost Prison is quite good whereas The Lost Command was OK as I recall.
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