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HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
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Who had the greater raw power, potential? Empty Who had the greater raw power, potential?

on September 17th 2019, 12:45 pm
Some sources imply Luke is what Anakin would have become, and maybe even more, some sources present Anakin as the strongest being absolutely. Who is stronger do you think and why? Discuss.
Meatpants
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Who had the greater raw power, potential? Empty Re: Who had the greater raw power, potential?

on September 17th 2019, 12:46 pm
Anakin, seems pretty obvious to me. Luke isn't very far behind though.
MasterCilghal
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on September 17th 2019, 12:47 pm
Based on what i’ve seen from Lucas Anakin=Luke
HellfireUnit
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on September 17th 2019, 12:52 pm
From my point of view, Anakin is clearly superior for being able to shape event through his will (defeating Dooku, Sidious). Also some people tend to dismiss Anakin's feat of containing the Son and Daughter simultaneously since they believe it is not tied to Anakin's power rather Force itself's will.
BoD
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on September 17th 2019, 5:02 pm
That quote was made long before the Ones and Abeloth were created. Anakin should definitely have the most potential, or at the very least Luke never achieved his.
NotAA3
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on September 17th 2019, 5:03 pm
Anakin is definitely the GOAT in terms of potential.
HellfireUnit
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on September 17th 2019, 5:20 pm
I agree with you guys. But g-canon quotes that were made prior to the Ones could still be valid after all those years? Also I couldn't find a definitive scale between Son, Daughter, Father and Abeloth. Some sources show that Son and Daughter themselves alone are enough to imprison Abeloth. But according to some people Abeloth is quite above even Father. Also the arguments of Anakin's feat of Mortis is quite debatable around the SW sites, many seeing this as a one time thing that was amped by Mortis/Father and he was later owned by Son repeatedly. How would you respond to this claims?
BoD
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on September 17th 2019, 5:35 pm
@HellFireUnit 
I agree with you guys. But g-canon quotes that were made prior to the Ones could still be valid after all those years?



They do stand but like all quotes they have to be considered in light of what we know. GM Luke was << Abeloth, who was apparently only somewhat more powerful than the Son and Daughter since they were able to seal her away again when they had the advantage of the prison on their side. 



Also I couldn't find a definitive scale between Son, Daughter, Father and Abeloth. Some sources show that Son and Daughter themselves alone are enough to imprison Abeloth. 

We don't know how it happened, honestly. It's possible that they had the help of the Killiks and the prison itself while imprisoning her again, or she was weakened while sealed away. It's possible she was considerably more powerful but lacked their skill and mastery, which by working together they were able to exploit. Think Vaylin vs, say, Mace Windu. She has comparable raw power, but she's far less skilled and disciplined, which gives them an automatic advantage. How much of an advantage is difficult to say. The Son and Daughter only channelled one side of the Force each, so it's possible that they were also much more stable whereas she was still unstable, as we see when she gets hurt by the likes of Krayt. 



But according to some people Abeloth is quite above even Father.



Nah, she's around his level considering she had no mastery of her abilities and he was able to beat her. I wouldn't say she's stronger, maybe equal upon mastering her abilities.



Also the arguments of Anakin's feat of Mortis is quite debatable around the SW sites, many seeing this as a one time thing that was amped by Mortis/Father and he was later owned by Son repeatedly. How would you respond to this claims?


The point of the Mortis trial was to see if Anakin had the potential to be the Father's successor. Even the Father remarks on this. By drawing upon the power of Mortis, Anakin was able to unlock his full potential as the Chosen One and stomp them.


The reason the Son stomped him later was because Anakin was in a very unique mindset when unlocking his full power. It's not something that he can just turn on or off. Like the Zonakin amp, he had to be especially motivated, in this case by seeing the man he thought of as a brother and the padawan he thought of like a surrogate daughter being threatened with near-certain death. He wasn't able to tap into this power later on. 
Sjuttiosju
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on September 17th 2019, 6:17 pm
@NotAA3 wrote:Anakin is definitely the GOAT in terms of potential.
Master Azronger
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Who had the greater raw power, potential? Empty Re: Who had the greater raw power, potential?

on September 20th 2019, 11:59 am
@MasterCilghal wrote:Based on what i’ve seen from Lucas Anakin=Luke

Citation needed.

Anyway, Full potential Anakin > the Son and Daughter > Abeloth > Full potential Luke
MasterCilghal
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on September 20th 2019, 12:05 pm
Azronger wrote:
@MasterCilghal wrote:Based on what i’ve seen from Lucas Anakin=Luke

Citation needed.

Anyway, Full potential Anakin > the Son and Daughter > Abeloth > Full potential Luke
How do we know that Luke had reached his full potential by FOTJ? 

And the quote:


George Lucas wrote:You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.  


Master Azronger
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Who had the greater raw power, potential? Empty Re: Who had the greater raw power, potential?

on September 20th 2019, 1:09 pm
@MasterCilghal wrote:
Azronger wrote:
@MasterCilghal wrote:Based on what i’ve seen from Lucas Anakin=Luke

Citation needed.

Anyway, Full potential Anakin > the Son and Daughter > Abeloth > Full potential Luke
How do we know that Luke had reached his full potential by FOTJ? 

And the quote:


George Lucas wrote:You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.  



Yeah, I was expecting you to cite that. That quote is often misinterpreted. Lucas is merely saying Luke could have become more powerful than the Emperor like Anakin, not that he could have become equally powerful to Anakin's full potential.

And we can determine Luke reached his full potential in FotJ given his cells start to burst when he opens himself to the Force fully against Abeloth, indicating his midi-chlorians couldn't fully handle the amount of power he was channelling. Despite this, he gets smacked down in short order by her.
MasterCilghal
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on September 20th 2019, 2:41 pm
Azronger wrote:Yeah, I was expecting you to cite that. That quote is often misinterpreted. Lucas is merely saying Luke could have become more powerful than the Emperor like Anakin, not that he could have become equally powerful to Anakin's full potential.
It is definitely a fair interpretation, however I’m not sure I agree . I think “what he was supposed to become” refers to Anakin’s full potential (because that’s what Anakin is supposed to become), not simply being more powerful than the emperor, and Luke can become that. Ultimately, I think it is up for interpretation. 


Azronger wrote:And we can determine Luke reached his full potential in FotJ given his cells start to burst when he opens himself to the Force fully against Abeloth, indicating his midi-chlorians couldn't fully handle the amount of power he was channelling. Despite this, he gets smacked down in short order by her.
While it is true that happened, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he can’t handle that power. Furthermore, Luke does the exact same thing later in FOTJ but he doesn’t get the same result but actually continues to fight afterwards for quite some time: 


Apocalypse wrote:Luke had to stop the Korelei-thing-he could not bring himself to even think her true name-or the Jedi's last hope of breaching the Temple would be lost. He opened himself to the Force completely, and the energy came flooding in so fast it seemed to lift him, to carry him down the duct on a raging river of power. When he began to gain on his quarry, he fired again, this time pouring so many bolts into her legs that one actually erupted in flame.

It should also be noted that Luke was extremely weakened at the time: 


Who had the greater raw power, potential? 7dc94810



Having said that, i’m still unsure on this matter. In fact I decided to bring up the idea of the two being equals simply to see the results. I am open to being convinced of Anakin’s superiority.
DarthAnt66
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on September 20th 2019, 3:09 pm
Anakin easily. Luke deep into his sixties, wielding greater Force mastery and experience than any previous mortal, hasn't scratched a fraction of the power that the Ones had per FOTJ and Crucible. Meanwhile, I don't think it's unreasonable to think Anakin would have actualized his galactic/universal-level powers within that frame.
Dolph
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on November 29th 2019, 10:59 pm
Anakin, by a mile

Mortis Anakin is stated to be a part of his potential.

Mortis Anakin > Ragdolling The Son and Daughter >> Abeloth >>> 12x Luke
lorenzo.r.2nd
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on November 29th 2019, 11:30 pm
more like: full power anakin> the father~ mortis anakin> abeloth> son and daughter>> luke at his best.
Dolph
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on December 6th 2019, 9:38 pm
If Luke's full potential is in FotJ, then his full potential is no where close to Anakin's. If Luke did not reach his full potential, it is hard to say. Mortis Anakin is stated to be only a sliver of his full potential, and he ragdolled the Siblings with ease, who individually are superior then Abeloth.
BoD
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on December 6th 2019, 9:52 pm
Mortis Anakin is stated to be only a sliver of his full potential,
Source?



who individually are superior then Abeloth.

Source for the underlined?
lorenzo.r.2nd
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on December 6th 2019, 10:30 pm
@breakofdawn i think the father says that, but i could be wrong
BoD
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on December 6th 2019, 10:34 pm
Who had the greater raw power, potential? Tenor
Sjuttiosju
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on December 7th 2019, 10:32 am
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:
@NotAA3 wrote:Anakin is definitely the GOAT in terms of potential.
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