Empress Vaylin vs Emperor Arcann

That refers to raw power explicitly iirc

The Son of Hades wrote:I like how BoD thinks immense growth automatically creates one-shot gaps between characters.

Ah HP, what would we do without your snidely little comments?

It refers to raw power, yes, which I’ve already said.

IG wrote:Outlander still isn’t near Unchained Vaylin lmao. Literally Boyd says Vaylin > all but Valk in SWTOR and that outlander wins because she’s batshit basically.

...You can be close to someone and still be below them. You understand how basic logic works, right? By this logic, Arcann can beat unchained Vaylin because while he isn't near to her, he has far more experience (just like the Outlander).

Excellent point, IG. Changed my mind, Arcann wins.

That quote doesn't even say Vaylin isn't > all but Valk then lmao

@BoD

Arcann's not an idiot.

What about him failing to react to Vaylin's Force attack makes him an idiot?

Even if he were off-guard, so was the Outlander, and while the Outlander was knocked backwards a few feet, Valk, Arcann and Senya were all one-shotted.

Well, The Outlander was shielded by Spirit Valkorion, but that aside, the fact that someone else was powerful enough to resist the blast doesn't mean any arguments about Arcann being caught off guard are bunk. The trio had literally just fought and seemingly defeated Vaylin prior in a fight where she didn't just instantly dispatch any of them. It's not "one-shotting" to catch a Force User off guard right at the end of a fight.

BoD wrote:

The Son of Hades wrote:I like how BoD thinks immense growth automatically creates one-shot gaps between characters.

Ah HP, what would we do without your snidely little comments?

My snidey little comments are apparently needed, cause I'm the only one who is right.

You and IG think Vaylin one-shots, and EC apparently thinks there is some debate to be had here (there isn't). Both are on opposite ends of the spectrum, I'm the only objective person here.

The Son of Hades wrote:EC and ISV seem to think Arcann wins for some reason. 

When did I ever say that lmao, I was just asking for an explanation for Vaylin literally one-shotting Arcann

That said, I don't actually buy a oneshot gap, it was hyperbole. I do however believe there's a stomp gap (or two) between Arcann and Vaylin @The Son of Hades.

@IG: Great to see I've made you double down on your previous claim

EmperorCaedus wrote:

The Son of Hades wrote:EC and ISV seem to think Arcann wins for some reason. 

When did I ever say that lmao, I was just asking for an explanation for Vaylin literally one-shotting Arcann

I edited my post after re-reading the thread. I'll admit I didn't read a lot of your posts and assumed you were advocating for Vaylin losing, but I've realised you're not and my post has been modified accordingly.

EmperorCaedus wrote:@IG: Great to see I've made you double down on your previous claim

I'm sorry what? I was being hyperbolic, something I've clarified in thread, you utter buffoon.

Future recommendation: Don't use hyperbole in threads as there's always someone who will take it literally and question the stance "X character one-shots" even if that's not what you meant.

The Son of Hades wrote:Future recommendation: Don't use hyperbole in threads as there's always someone who will take it literally and question the stance "X character one-shots" even if that's not what you meant.

K, thanks.

What about him failing to react to Vaylin's Force attack makes him an idiot?

He's an idiot if he thinks Vaylin is utterly defeated and just going to give up, especially since he knows his sister so well.

Well, The Outlander was shielded by Spirit Valkorion, 

Wrong.



Barrier is clearly in front of Valk and the Outlander is moving before it even manifests.

The two are then standing this far apart:



When Valk's barriers have historically protected only a small area, specifically the size of a single fully grown man:





Same goes for other uses of it within SWTOR:



Annnnd then there's the fact that the barrier is clearly aligned with Valkorion's position, and not the Outlander's:



So:

1) The Outlander was moving even with the barrier in place, yet Valk was fine until it started to fade, at which point he instantly dissipated. 
2) Valk has never used these to cover a considerable amount of area, so it's extremely unlikely (and contradicted by the images above) that he extended it to the Outlander as well.
3) The positioning of the shield directly lines up with Valk's position, being several feet away from the Outlander.
4) If both are supposedly being protected by the barrier, and one person is moving and the other isn't, it's pretty clear the barrier isn't protecting the moving person.

Conclusion: The barrier wasn't protecting the Outlander, that's why he was moving with the initial wave of energy and struggled to find purchase whereas Valk was completely fine until the barrier faded.

the fact that someone else was powerful enough to resist the blast doesn't mean any arguments about Arcann being caught off guard are bunk. The trio had literally just fought and seemingly defeated Vaylin prior in a fight where she didn't just instantly dispatch any of them. It's not "one-shotting" to catch a Force User off guard right at the end of a fight.

Fair points.

Ah, this again. Nice.

Praxis wrote:Ah, this again. Nice.

Indeed.

@BoD

I don't really know what you want me to say tbh. You've seen Praxis provide the screenshots before that show Valk shielding The Outlander, and you've also seen the quote from Boyd where he confirms such. Are you really so stuck in your own little fantasy world that you can't even see the obvious intent and the fact that the people making this shit don't agree with you? I swear, I've never met anyone so fundamentally dishonest in their interpretations of the material. Let's choose:

1) BoD: The Outlander wanker who debates SW on online forums in his spare time taking select screenshots to justify his position.

2) Charles Boyd: The man who worked on this shit, confirming an interpretation backed by other evidence, who has absolutely no bias.

Regarding this final little point:

He's an idiot if he thinks Vaylin is utterly defeated and just going to give up, especially since he knows his sister so well.

This isn't a matter of giving up - it's a matter of Vaylin basically defeated - he thinks she's spent and she's literally lying on the ground, completely done for. Arcann had no way of knowing Vaylin had enough energy for a burst of power like that.

Anyway, if you're going to respond, please address the intent, and Praxis's screenshots, otherwise I probably won't bother to type another rebuttal.

Plus, even if Arcann was prepared for an attack that doesn't mean he'd be quick enough to raise a barrier against Vaylin's final burst, it's entirely possible she was just too quick for him.

I don't really know what you want me to say tbh. You've seen Praxis provide the screenshots before that show Valk shielding The Outlander,

Well, you got me there. I forgot that Praxis is able to rotate photos within a game and show us exactly where the barrier is (no offence to you, Prax). 

and you've also seen the quote from Boyd where he confirms such.

...Except he didn't. 





The question was about pushing through the wave...as in, this:

https://youtu.be/iM5S5730f3I?t=97

I assume you understand what "push through her Force wave" means, right?

Are you really so stuck in your own little fantasy world

Ah, how I love your little comments. How refreshing.

that you can't even see the obvious intent and the fact that the people making this shit don't agree with you? 

...The obvious intent that they had Valkorion say "only you are strong enough to stop this" then had the Outlander push through the Force wave, yet as we know from tweets - indicating it wasn't obvious intent - that Valkorion clearly had some kind of role? That "obvious intent"?

I swear, I've never met anyone so fundamentally dishonest in their interpretations of the material.

Considering who you are, that's honestly high praise.

Let's choose:


1) BoD: The Outlander wanker who debates SW on online forums in his spare time taking select screenshots to justify his position.

Ignoring your weird little comments, I can forward you the entire scene if you'd like. You're welcome to take your own or offer evidence that this isn't the case. Then again, making little snide comments seems more your speed.

2) Charles Boyd: The man who worked on this shit, confirming an interpretation backed by other evidence, who has absolutely no bias.

..I never said he did? Where did I say anything that contradicted what Charles said?

1. I said chapter 8 Outlander < Vaylin. Charles said chapter 8 Outlander < Vaylin.
2. I explicitly said the first wave wasn't involving Valkorion's help. Charles did not comment on this.
3. Not once in this thread have I said the Outlander forcing his way through that power proves he's more powerful. Charles likewise said the Outlander most likely had help.

Interesting.

Regarding this final little point:



This isn't a matter of giving up - it's a matter of Vaylin basically defeated - he thinks she's spent and she's literally lying on the ground, completely done for. Arcann had no way of knowing Vaylin had enough energy for a burst of power like that.

Considering how well he knows her, 1) he should have sensed the build up of energy, 2) he is the one who's constantly warning the Outlander to be careful around Vaylin and never to let his guard down, and 3) he knows that she'd never be taken alive and that she's beyond redemption.

So yeah, bit of an idiot. 

Anyway, if you're going to respond, please address the intent, and Praxis's screenshots, otherwise I probably won't bother to type another rebuttal.

You assume that I care if you respond. I wasn't even talking to you in the first place until you jumped in. I've replied twice out of politeness. Insult me again, and I'll just ignore anything else you post. 

If you deign to grace me with a response, keep the aggressiveness out of it, please. Not really in the mood to have an insult match on a debating board. Too much toxicity on here at the best of times.

@BoD: Sorry, not in the best mood myself, hence the aggression. I'll try to keep it out of my subsequent post which should be up sometime during the week (idk when, ILS dropped a mega WoT on me, and I've got work for assignments to do as well).

The Son of Hades wrote:@BoD: Sorry, not in the best mood myself, hence the aggression. I'll try to keep it out of my subsequent post which should be up sometime during the week (idk when, ILS dropped a mega WoT on me, and I've got work for assignments to do as well).

Don't bother. Tired of sparring with you and, honestly? You're too negative a person at the best of times for me to want to debate against. Take this as a concession, withdrawal or whatever you want to call it, but I'm not interested in debating this with you any longer.

KingofBlades wrote:

KoB, I don't know how many times I have to tell you this but what we had was only a short-term thing. It'd never work out between us. You're going need to accept that for your own wellbeing. I'm sorry.