Darth Nihilus returns...

It is well-known that Darth Nihilus did not actually die in Knights of the Old Republic II but endured as a spirit.



The new information I have uncovered is that Nihilus eventually became one of Darth Bane's successors, carrying on his legacy.

The menacing Sith emerge again and again through the centuries, teaching each generation their dark secrets. A thousand years before the Battle of Yavin, Darth Bane brings the Sith Order back from near extinction in his quest to reclaim their glory. His legacy is carried on by Darth Nihilus, who blights whole worlds in his desire to destroy the Jedi. Darth Maul serves a power-hungry Sith Lord who plots the elimination of the Jedi.

https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=JReviews&rop=showcontent&id=357

This makes him a Banite Sith and therefore subject to Banite scaling. We know the last five Banites were Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous, Tenebrous's Master, and Ramage, so at least they are all more powerful than Nihilus. We also know that he was cut down in combat by his apprentice when he was at the peak of his powers, as is Banite tradition.

Doctor Who meets Dracula, who's busy hanging around with Satan and the guy from Scream.

Please keep all discussion relevant to the topic

Wait what? How could noone notice this info until this very moment?

Seriously though, would it actually apply to Bane? I was under the impression that his spirit clung to his armour and eventually transferred over to Korriban during the burial place, merging with his holocron. Banite scaling wouldn't work for him. 

I might be completely missing some joke, though.

Yes we can reconcile that with this by explaining that Nihilus eventually got out of his Holocron during the Banites' reign and was taken as an apprentice by someone. He was then killed by his own apprentice and displaced his spirit into his Holocron yet again.

Azronger wrote:Yes we can reconcile that with this by explaining that Nihilus eventually got out of his Holocron during the Banites' reign and was taken as an apprentice by someone. He was then killed by his own apprentice and displaced his spirit into his Holocron yet again.

I don't remember this.

Azronger wrote:Yes we can reconcile that with this by explaining that Nihilus eventually got out of his Holocron during the Banites' reign and was taken as an apprentice by someone. He was then killed by his own apprentice and displaced his spirit into his Holocron yet again.

This seems like a bit of a stretch, why as a spirit would he be an apprentice to anybody? Even disregarding being a spirit, why would he, who is someone fueled by his hunger and not caring for Sith teachings be an apprentice?

Azronger wrote:It is well-known that Darth Nihilus did not actually die in Knights of the Old Republic II but endured as a spirit.



The new information I have uncovered is that Nihilus eventually became one of Darth Bane's successors, carrying on his legacy.

The menacing Sith emerge again and again through the centuries, teaching each generation their dark secrets. A thousand years before the Battle of Yavin, Darth Bane brings the Sith Order back from near extinction in his quest to reclaim their glory. His legacy is carried on by Darth Nihilus, who blights whole worlds in his desire to destroy the Jedi. Darth Maul serves a power-hungry Sith Lord who plots the elimination of the Jedi.

https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=JReviews&rop=showcontent&id=357

This makes him a Banite Sith and therefore subject to Banite scaling. We know the last five Banites were Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous, Tenebrous's Master, and Ramage, so at least they are all more powerful than Nihilus. We also know that he was cut down in combat by his apprentice when he was at the peak of his powers, as is Banite tradition.

idk if that makes him part of their order. it might just mean that maybe one the members died before getting an apprentice and his spirit carried on with it. he might not get any scaling whatsoever if we go by that. BUT if it DOES mean that he has some interaction with a master and apprentice, and possibly took the role of one of them, it could mean that he is far more powerful than when he was alive

It makes sense. Both Bane and Nihilus' holocrons ended up on Korriban with the One Sith

Also, his beliefs, ideologies, etc have nothing to do with the Banite teachings, nor does he care about him. It's like saying Karness Muur is subject to Banite scaling because he's still technically alive (as a ghost) during the Banite era.

ILS wrote:It makes sense. Both Bane and Nihilus' holocrons ended up on Korriban with the One Sith

yes, there is also this. would andeddu benefit from this as well?

Well his Master was probably really stronk so he was forced to submit. Despite supposedly being without a personality, he was actually the mastermind behind Vaklu's revolt on Onderon so he's clearly not the troglodyte he's often thought of as. He probably recognized he needed to apprentice himself to a Master, and after killing them took an apprentice of his own like he had done to Visas Marr, and the apprentice then killed and surpassed him.

BoD wrote:Also, his beliefs, ideologies, etc have nothing to do with the Banite teachings, nor does he care about him. It's like saying Karness Muur is subject to Banite scaling because he's still technically alive (as a ghost) during the Banite era.

No it isn't. Muur isn't said to carry on Bane's legacy. Nihilus is.

This is a typo. I actually have that action figure pack you're referring to. The revised version fixes it and reads:



The original doesn't work anyway since it would mean Nihilus is consuming planets of Jedi while the Banites are supposed to be hiding.

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:

Azronger wrote:It is well-known that Darth Nihilus did not actually die in Knights of the Old Republic II but endured as a spirit.



The new information I have uncovered is that Nihilus eventually became one of Darth Bane's successors, carrying on his legacy.

The menacing Sith emerge again and again through the centuries, teaching each generation their dark secrets. A thousand years before the Battle of Yavin, Darth Bane brings the Sith Order back from near extinction in his quest to reclaim their glory. His legacy is carried on by Darth Nihilus, who blights whole worlds in his desire to destroy the Jedi. Darth Maul serves a power-hungry Sith Lord who plots the elimination of the Jedi.

https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=JReviews&rop=showcontent&id=357

This makes him a Banite Sith and therefore subject to Banite scaling. We know the last five Banites were Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous, Tenebrous's Master, and Ramage, so at least they are all more powerful than Nihilus. We also know that he was cut down in combat by his apprentice when he was at the peak of his powers, as is Banite tradition.

idk if that makes him part of their order. it might just mean that maybe one the members died before getting an apprentice and his spirit carried on with it. he might not get any scaling whatsoever if we go by that. BUT if it DOES mean that he has some interaction with a master and apprentice, and possibly took the role of one of them, it could mean that he is far more powerful than when he was alive

It's stated he carried on Bane's legacy. That means he was a Banite Sith at some point. Which means he acted in accordance with the Rule of Two, so at the very least he had an apprentice who surpassed him. And regardless, quotes state each generation became more powerful than the last regardless, so I see no reason to exclude Nihilus from Banite scaling.

DarthAnt66 wrote:This is a typo. I actually have that action figure pack you're referring to. The revised version fixes it and reads:



The original doesn't work anyway since it would mean Nihilus is consuming planets of Jedi while the Banites are supposed to be hiding.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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@azronger carrying on his legacy really might not mean what it meant for the other banites tbh. technically speaking, sheev also carried on with it, but he also didnt at the same time. Nihilus could have a similar teaching/learning experience to their own, but it doesnt make him one of them. if u can make a good case for him being an active part of the order, then, well, it becomes more believable

@DarthAnt66: Omission is different from contradiction

@ILS: yes, but there is often a reason for something to be omitted like that lol

@ILS:

Restructuring the same sentences to have Bane carry on his legacy is effectively a retcon. It's also consistent with what we already know (note: your favorite line is that sourcebooks are just stating "what we already know"). Moreover, if Bane's capable of carrying on Nihilus' legacy, that means he can do so without adopting his Sith philosophy. So, if Nihilus comes back and carries on Bane's legacy, that doesn't mean he's a Banite Sith. Nihilus could be working as a Sith independent from the Banites, which is especially needed since it says he's consuming planets to destroy Jedi during that time anyway (reminder: the first Banite Sith the Jedi see is Maul).

Unless I'm completely wrong, Bane came a long time after Nihilus, so Ant's pack makes a lot more sense.

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:

ILS wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:This is a typo. I actually have that action figure pack you're referring to. The revised version fixes it and reads:



The original doesn't work anyway since it would mean Nihilus is consuming planets of Jedi while the Banites are supposed to be hiding.

Omission is different from contradiction

yes, but there is often a reason for something to be omitted like that lol

not really.

Andeddus spirit was kept in his holocron. Nihilus and Bane's were kept in theirs. The two quotes are complimentary rather than mutually exclusive.



Its related to how early Banite Sith used to try and kill each other with essence transfer. If it failed they would simply latch onto their holocrons until they could be reborn

DarthAnt66 wrote:@ILS:

Restructuring the same sentences to have Bane carry on his legacy is effectively a retcon. It's also consistent with what we already know (note: your favorite line is that sourcebooks are just stating "what we already know"). Moreover, if Bane's capable of carrying on Nihilus' legacy, that means he can do so without adopting his Sith philosophy. So, if Nihilus comes back and carries on Bane's legacy, that doesn't mean he's a Banite Sith. Nihilus could be working as a Sith independent from the Banites, which is especially needed since it says he's consuming planets to destroy Jedi during that time anyway (reminder: the first Banite Sith the Jedi see is Maul).

Why is it a retcon, other than because you say it is? Yes, both quotes are consistent with what we know: Nihilus was a Sith Lord thousands of years before Bane, and he then participated in the Banite line. As did Andeddu. That's why their holocrons were recovered together on Korriban and why the three of them roast Krayt for changing to the One Sith philosophy.

Of course nobody would see Nihilus draining worlds, there would be no survivors left and he can do it with a word from the comfort of a ship in the assfuck middle of nowhere town.

The fact you locked this thread for 5 minutes out of frustration doesn't surprise me. Yet another Sith who puts Revan to shame, and you can't handle it.

So I go to class don't hang around and all of a sudden everyone has action figure avatars and Nihilus is a banite...

Safe to ask, what did I miss?