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The Ellimist
The Ellimist
Level Five
Level Five

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 1:14 pm
"Telekinesis." Jaina took a step back to keep Beviin in physical view. He had a blaster and that short, flat saber, both hanging from his belt. "I've known him to move star-ships, deflect ion cannon... even turbolasers. He can hear at huge distances with some Theran Force-listening technique. He can create elaborate Force illusions that feel real, he can walk into the past or future, he can control objects like scanners, and he can mind-rub - he even mind-rubbed Ben."

"Made him forget."

"Yes."

"He could get rich on that." Fett didn't sound as if he were mocking. In fact, he felt totally neutral to her; a blank slate in the Force, nothing to read. "Why does he need spies and secret police if he can eavesdrop wherever he wants?"

"I... I don't know."

"If he can stop turbolasers single-handed, why does he need a fleet?"Jaina looked for the angle. "Again, no idea."


"Why does he need shields on ships when he can create his own?"

- Legacy of the Force: Revelation

Some people have argued that Traviss misinterpreted some scene to mean Jacen deflected turbolasers when he really didn't - whether that's true, and whether that should translate into Jaina being mistaken in-universe, I'm not sure. She could've easily seen him do this some other time.

Why is it that Jaina can't explain why Jacen even needs a fleet? Shields on ships? Spies and secret police? Is Caedus actually so OP that Jaina can't figure out why he can't just do everything by himself? Or is she just focused on sparring, and not interested in distracting herself by answering the question? Is the answer "well he's not that powerful", or is it that he really is so powerful it's legitimate to wonder whether he needs his own fleet?
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 1:17 pm
Jaina basically worships Jacen as a top tier combatant and overinflates his abilities to extreme lengths.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 1:21 pm
We know Jacen needs a fleet, if he was on the level where he didn't require one he wouldn't shit his pants and run away upon seeing a fleet appear right in front of him.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 1:24 pm
Thing is Jaina says she’s equal to Caedus in force strength where I seriously doubt that.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 1:27 pm
That's not what she says. In fact she says the opposite, repeatedly. She's talking about potential.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 1:30 pm
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:That's not what she says. In fact she says the opposite, repeatedly. She's talking about potential.
She actually says they would be evenly matched but Caedus has the unconventional abilities she can’t counter, so she needs mandalorian training. It’s  Denning’s version of Jaina that states the opposite.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 1:40 pm
Fury wrote:"I'm his twin. I have as much power as he does... potentially. But he's had training I haven't. I need to counter it with training he hasn't had. And the sort of ingenuity you showed me."

Emphasis mine.

She notes that she can potentially equal his power but his superior training bolsters his power above hers (No mention of esoteric abilities). This is consistent with her repeated statements of inferiority to him. A different author does nothing to impact their validity. Her Mandalorian training is an attempt to beat him via skill, because she can't match his strength.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 2:14 pm
I was referring to this: 



Revelation wrote:“If anyone can stop Jacen, then, it’s me. I’m his equal, and I’m the Sword of the Jedi. But I just don’t have his…training. I’ve no idea what he learned from Lumiya, let alone what he picked up on his travels during those five years. But he’ll make a mistake sooner or later. He’s way too cocky not to overestimate himself.”

Your point is definitely valid, but in this case she says she can stop him because she’s her equal. To me it seems like Traviss has a different interpretation of their force power, which was proven wrong by Denning and Allston.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 2:19 pm
Ah, forgot about that quote. Given it's contradicted by every other statement Jaina herself made as well as the events in LOTF I wouldn't put much stock into it tbh.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 2:22 pm
Jaina doesn't explicitly reference power either (Which makes sense given everything we know), she just says she's his equal. In what exactly, is the question?
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 2:53 pm
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Ah, forgot about that quote. Given it's contradicted by every other statement Jaina herself made as well as the events in LOTF I wouldn't put much stock into it tbh.
That’s exactly what I think, my point was that Traviss has a different interpretation of power levels ( note that Denning has said one of the best things of LOTF are the different opinions of the three authors). Which would also explain this thread.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 3:16 pm
I don't think "equal" there means in the context of Force power/lightsaber skills.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 4th 2019, 3:18 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:I don't think "equal" there means in the context of Force power/lightsaber skills.
Maybe, i’m not sure honestly.
Jake
Jake
Level One
Level One

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 5th 2019, 11:30 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
 Emphasis mine. 

LMAO
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 5th 2019, 3:39 pm
Always wanted to say it.

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett 228124001
Ziggy
Ziggy

Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

on September 5th 2019, 5:55 pm
Some people have argued that Traviss misinterpreted some scene to mean Jacen deflected turbolasers when he really didn't - whether that's true, and whether that should translate into Jaina being mistaken in-universe, I'm not sure. She could've easily seen him do this some other time.

She could have easily seen him do this? 

When? 

It is explained in Betrayal that there is no conflict between the Dark Nest Trilogy and Legacy of the Force.  Only some minor political squabbles.  so Jaina easily seeing Jacen deflecting the super-powerful turbo-lasers we imagine isn't really feasible.  Unless... they got a huge starship to fire a volley at the Jedi academy for training purposes?

For context, in the scene you're referring to,  Jaina was amazed at the canon fire Jacen actually did defect, musing that she'd never seen something like that before.  So there is obviously no instance before-hand of Jacen doing something on a far greater scale  And due to the lack of conflict, it's not really that feasible she's referring to some astonishing feat of turbolaser snubbing after the fact. 

For more context, "turbolaser" is sometimes encompassing term that is often used to denote a wide range of lasers.  In the same way that Yoda, Grandmaster of the Order, is denoted as a "Jedi Knight" at times. 

For even more context, Caedus, at the height of his power, is a pussy who gets breathless after empowering around one-hundred non-force sensitive commanders with his rage.  Becomes "exhausted" after doing that and tricking the orbital defence team in Fondor to lower their shields.  He needs a fleet.  The events take precedence over Jaina's lack of understanding.  Just in the same way I don't take Anakin's words at face value when comparing AOTC Kenobi to Master Windu - being as powerful as him.
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Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett Empty Re: Jaina's comments on Caedus to Fett

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