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The Ellimist
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on August 24th 2019, 2:47 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:I'll post five potential contenders for the environmental sphere. Note this list isn't in order, and I'm not including irrefutably circumstantial feats (e.g. Dorsk 81).

1. Galen Marek atomizing the Salvation -- Ludicrous in both the absolute destructive power to basically atomize the front half of the cruiser seen below and that it was done instantaneously and without any noticeable damage to Starkiller. It's one of those feats no one can really overtly match pound-for-pound.

10 Most Impressive TK feats in the mythos - Page 2 Latest?cb=20110712044326

2. Galen Marek tilting a Star Destroyer -- It's funny people highlight Marek had immeasurable difficulty just tilting it as it was already falling considering estimates for a Star Destroyer's mass are still in the hundreds of millions of kilograms. Direct that energy to an army of non-Force users and they should all instantly explode.

3. Rivi Anu lifting up a Star Destroyer -- The feat that breaks Star Wars. By integrating it within scaling chains, all other telekinetic feats become irrelevant, so it's paramount to chalk this up to a moment of Oneness. Note this feat is mentioned in sourcebooks, so the "this is just in an exaggerated medium" argument doesn't work. 

10 Most Impressive TK feats in the mythos - Page 2 Rivi_a10

4. Luke Skywalker moving two dovin basals -- Arguably the most famous feat from the EU. I haven't seen anyone convincingly quantify this feat, but it's clearly meant to be insane, and the fact Luke highlights in The Unifying Force that he largely exhausted himself here not due to the difficulty but of his fear of falling to the dark side is nuts.

5. Abeloth destroying the City of Glass -- Unleashing a Force scream that melted a city of millions of Sith without even fully noticing what was going on is probably the best direct Force feat in the mythos. Luke should be able to scale off the feat to some limited extent, but that's almost impossible to quantify.

Notable mentions are Dooku hurling Sith warships, Anakin holding back the theta storm, Anakin hurling the CIS dreadnaught, and Yoda moving the CIS landing cruisers.

Some others:

- UnuThul bending turbolaser barrages (this could very well be #1)
- Palpatine lowering the Lusankya, depending on your interpretation of it
- Palpatine musing that he could crack the foundations of Imperial Palace (I think he was accurate here)
- Nihilus raising and holding together the Ravager, depending on your interpretation of it
- Luke lifting and crushing Vader's fortress
- Kyp Durron raising the sun crusher out of Yavin
DarthAnt66
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on August 24th 2019, 2:48 am
Ah, yeah. Totally forgot about UnuThul and Luke. Luke's fortress feat especially is absolutely insane.
Master Azronger
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on August 24th 2019, 2:51 am
I'd also nominate Sheev burying the Lusankya, Luke destroying and rebuilding Bast Castle, and Darth Nihilus holding the Ravager together (fuck Chris Avellone) for environmental feats.

For combat feats, I'd say Luke pinning UnuThul, Sheev repeatedly circumventing Maul's barrier over the course of one fight with his sheer mastery, and Krayt nonchalantly tossing Cade around are the most impressive. For implied feats, Sheev being able to instantly one-shot Luke and Vader would be up there as well.

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Master Azronger
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on August 24th 2019, 2:51 am
@The Ellimist wrote:
Some others:

- UnuThul bending turbolaser barrages (this could very well be #1)
- Palpatine lowering the Lusankya, depending on your interpretation of it
- Palpatine musing that he could crack the foundations of Imperial Palace (I think he was accurate here)
- Nihilus raising and holding together the Ravager, depending on your interpretation of it
- Luke lifting and crushing Vader's fortress
- Kyp Durron raising the sun crusher out of Yavin

Ninja'd
DarthAnt66
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on August 24th 2019, 2:55 am
Azronger wrote:and Krayt nonchalantly tossing Cade around are the most impressive.

I recall Cade actively resisting/dodging Krayt's telekinesis after the initial push.
MasterCilghal
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on August 24th 2019, 2:56 am
Kenobi moving the megaliths was also fairly impressive
Master Azronger
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on August 24th 2019, 3:11 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:
Azronger wrote:and Krayt nonchalantly tossing Cade around are the most impressive.

I recall Cade actively resisting/dodging Krayt's telekinesis after the initial push.

Nah, he was getting dragged around in a Force grip. Note the blue trail from Krayt's hand.

10 Most Impressive TK feats in the mythos - Page 2 Krayt_27

Also note that Krayt switched hands: the initial push is done with his left hand but he's gripping Cade with his right hand. This means he tagged Cade with TK more than once at the start of the fight.
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on August 24th 2019, 3:13 am
Yoda halting the progression of the massive Leisure Satellite, locked on course to the Temple.


Last edited by JediJuice on August 24th 2019, 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total
DarthAnt66
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on August 24th 2019, 3:16 am
Azronger wrote:
@DarthAnt66 wrote:
Azronger wrote:and Krayt nonchalantly tossing Cade around are the most impressive.

I recall Cade actively resisting/dodging Krayt's telekinesis after the initial push.

Nah, he was getting dragged around in a Force grip. Note the blue trail from Krayt's hand.

10 Most Impressive TK feats in the mythos - Page 2 Krayt_27

Also note that Krayt switched hands: the initial push is done with his left hand but he's gripping Cade with his right hand. This means he tagged Cade with TK more than once at the start of the fight.

I'm not convinced the drag's related to Cade. Based on the dialogue, Cade's saying he learned tricks that's currently helping him against Krayt (indicating the panel is suppose to show Cade doing something positive), then Krayt says it doesn't matter and switches from telekinesis to lightning in another attempt to subdue him. The trail is likely Krayt wheeling as Cade moves from in front of him to the side of him, and the usage of telekinesis is exploding the rocks Cade is on. If Krayt was actually ragdolling Cade there, the dialogue should read, "Oof!" from Cade and, "As you can see, you're nothing to me," from Krayt rather than basically the opposite.
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on August 24th 2019, 3:20 am
Nihilus ripping ships from a gravity well.
Master Azronger
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on August 24th 2019, 4:02 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:
Azronger wrote:
@DarthAnt66 wrote:
Azronger wrote:and Krayt nonchalantly tossing Cade around are the most impressive.

I recall Cade actively resisting/dodging Krayt's telekinesis after the initial push.

Nah, he was getting dragged around in a Force grip. Note the blue trail from Krayt's hand.

10 Most Impressive TK feats in the mythos - Page 2 Krayt_27

Also note that Krayt switched hands: the initial push is done with his left hand but he's gripping Cade with his right hand. This means he tagged Cade with TK more than once at the start of the fight.

I'm not convinced the drag's related to Cade. Based on the dialogue, Cade's saying he learned tricks that's currently helping him against Krayt (indicating the panel is suppose to show Cade doing something positive), then Krayt says it doesn't matter and switches from telekinesis to lightning in another attempt to subdue him. The trail is likely Krayt wheeling as Cade moves from in front of him to the side of him, and the usage of telekinesis is exploding the rocks Cade is on. If Krayt was actually ragdolling Cade there, the dialogue should read, "Oof!" from Cade and, "As you can see, you're nothing to me," from Krayt rather than basically the opposite.

You're attaching meaning to Cade's statement that isn't there. He's simply responding to Krayt's taunt - anything beyond that is pure conjecture. The panel itself shows Krayt and Cade in a different location from the first panel as indicated by the floor on which Krayt is standing being completely different from the narrow ledge they were on in the first panel (these kinds of abrupt location changes mid-fight aren't uncommon to Legacy). His head's also facing upwards which shows Cade is in the air and not standing on any rocks. Your interpretation also makes no sense as crushing rocks wouldn't leave a blue trail from his hand in that specific direction.

So to summarize:

  • Krayt hurls Cade back at the start of the fight.
  • They switch locations and Krayt is still dragging Cade through the air in a telekinetic grip.
  • Despite the location change, Cade's lightsaber isn't ignited which indicates he's failed to make any progress in getting close to Krayt.
  • Krayt's attitude was casual the entire time and he seemed completely at ease, contrasted with his fight with Wyyrlok and previous fight with Cade.

So my initial claim isn't untrue: Krayt was nonchalantly tossing Cade around in that fight.
Master Azronger
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on August 24th 2019, 4:04 am
JediJuice wrote:Yoda halting the progression of the massive Leisure Satellite, locked on course to the Temple.

I don't remember this feat. Can you share?
DarthAnt66
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on August 24th 2019, 4:16 am
You're attaching meaning to Cade's statement that isn't there. He's simply responding to Krayt's taunt - anything beyond that is pure conjecture.

@Azronger: That doesn't make any sense. Why would Cade gloat that he learned a lot from the Sith, is a fast learner, and makes up his own strategies if he's currently being ragdolled? I'm not posing my interpretation as absolutely irrefutable, but I think it's very likely to say Cade wouldn't brag about his abilities simultaneous with his skills failing so epicly he's being listed in this thread, indicating your interpretation of what's going on doesn't fit the dialogue. 

The panel itself shows Krayt and Cade in a different location from the first panel as indicated by the floor on which Krayt is standing being completely different from the narrow ledge they were on in the first panel (these kinds of abrupt location changes mid-fight aren't uncommon to Legacy).

Agreed. Clearly there was some shuffling between the panels. We don't know what happens though. And it's clearly not anything that allowed Krayt to subdue Cade.

His head's also facing upwards which shows Cade is in the air and not standing on any rocks.

Cade moved along/bounced off the side of the exploding rocks.

Your interpretation also makes no sense as crushing rocks wouldn't leave a blue trail from his hand in that specific direction.

. . . why not? And how do the rocks even fit within your interpretation? Krayt simultaneously moved Cade and destroyed the rocks he's standing on? 

Continuing from that, why would Krayt effectively acknowledge Cade's point, demand him to surrender, and unleash Force lightning if he was just causally thrashing Cade around? You generally switch tactics if your current one isn't working, not when you're totally winning. And even if that was a mental fluke on Krayt's part, why didn't Krayt ragdoll Cade again later on if he could do it whenever and effortlessly? Instead, Krayt and Cade had a protracted duel that took them out of the temple structure to the balcony (i.e. a fair distance away), and Cade even appeared to be advancing on Krayt rather than the other way around until the Dark Transfer opening.


Last edited by DarthAnt66 on August 24th 2019, 4:47 am; edited 1 time in total
DarthAnt66
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on August 24th 2019, 4:24 am
Also, who has full lines of dialogue as they're being whipped around with the Force? That doesn't make sense either. Is that even possible? Imagine Obi-Wan telling Dooku in ROTS, "I learned a few tricks fighting Maul and Savage," as he flew across the room into the balcony. That's honestly the same as what you're positing here.

Edit: I’m actually curious if anyone can cite examples of someone talking as they are being thrown around with the Force, because I can think of many examples of that directly stopping whatever they are saying due to the shift in focus. I’ve especially never seen full sentence-long statements during that.
SithSauce
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on August 24th 2019, 4:39 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:I'll post five potential contenders for the environmental sphere. Note this list isn't in order, and I'm not including irrefutably circumstantial feats (e.g. Dorsk 81).

1. Galen Marek atomizing the Salvation -- Ludicrous in both the absolute destructive power to basically atomize the front half of the cruiser seen below and that it was done instantaneously and without any noticeable damage to Starkiller. It's one of those feats no one can really overtly match pound-for-pound.

10 Most Impressive TK feats in the mythos - Page 2 Latest?cb=20110712044326

2. Galen Marek tilting a Star Destroyer -- Some try to lowball the feat by acting like the fact he just tilted it as it was already falling isn't impressive, but estimates for a Star Destroyer's mass are still in the hundreds of millions of kilograms. Direct that energy to an army of non-Force users and they should all instantly explode.

3. Rivi Anu lifting up a Star Destroyer -- The feat that breaks Star Wars. By integrating it within scaling chains, all other telekinetic feats become irrelevant, so it's paramount to chalk this up to a moment of Oneness. Note this feat is mentioned in sourcebooks, so the "this is just in an exaggerated medium" argument doesn't work. 

10 Most Impressive TK feats in the mythos - Page 2 Rivi_a10

4. Luke Skywalker moving two dovin basals -- Arguably the most famous feat from the EU. I haven't seen anyone convincingly quantify this feat, but it's clearly meant to be insane, and the fact Luke highlights in The Unifying Force that he largely exhausted himself here not due to the difficulty but of his fear of falling to the dark side is nuts.

5. Abeloth destroying the City of Glass -- Unleashing a Force scream that melted a city of millions of Sith without even fully noticing what was going on is probably the best direct Force feat in the mythos. Luke should be able to scale off the feat to some limited extent, but that's almost impossible to quantify.

Notable mentions to Dooku hurling Sith warships, Anakin holding back the theta storm, Anakin hurling the CIS dreadnaught, and Yoda moving the CIS landing cruisers.
Wasn't Dooku on Korriban when hurling those warships? This kinda makes the feat less impressive, as he would have been largely amped.
DarthAnt66
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on August 24th 2019, 4:42 am
@“SithSauce”: The Korriban nexus is emphasized to be super weak in the CW era.
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on August 24th 2019, 4:47 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:@“SithSauce”: The Korriban nexus is emphasized to be super weak in the CW era.
Was this stated in Dark Rendezvous?
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on August 24th 2019, 4:51 am
@SithSauce wrote:
@DarthAnt66 wrote:@“SithSauce”: The Korriban nexus is emphasized to be super weak in the CW era.
Was this stated in Dark Rendezvous?

Refer to this post here: http://suspectinsight.forumotion.com/t723p25-darth-krayt-vs-exar-kun#14990 .
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on August 24th 2019, 4:55 am
@Azronger

https://imgur.com/a/D6tH0Xp

Ventress locks the Leisure Satellite - a giant, and extremely heavy ship filled with shops, runways etc. - to collide with Temple, and Yoda casually walks out and stops it.
Master Azronger
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on August 24th 2019, 5:14 am
JediJuice wrote:@Azronger

https://imgur.com/a/D6tH0Xp

Ventress locks the Leisure Satellite - a giant, and extremely heavy ship filled with shops, runways etc. - to collide with Temple, and Yoda casually walks out and stops it.

Would be nice, but sadly I don't think that usable since Yoda was amped by the Jedi Temple nexus. Anyway, what's the name of the comic?
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on August 24th 2019, 5:15 am
Clone Wars Magazine UK 6.23
DarthAnt66
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on August 24th 2019, 5:15 am
Azronger wrote:
JediJuice wrote:@Azronger

https://imgur.com/a/D6tH0Xp

Ventress locks the Leisure Satellite - a giant, and extremely heavy ship filled with shops, runways etc. - to collide with Temple, and Yoda casually walks out and stops it.

Would be nice, but sadly I don't think that usable since Yoda was amped by the Jedi Temple nexus. Anyway, what's the name of the comic?

Moments like that feat makes you wonder the significance of a nexus if it's not even remotely alluded to within the source though.

I'm not saying he wasn't amped, but perhaps we can contextualize it -- to some degree -- that Yoda could replicate the feat regardless of the amp.
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on August 24th 2019, 5:29 am
Nihilus pulling a fleet of 600 meter and 1200 meter warships out of several kilometers of Malachor V's surface, magnetic storms and mass shadows stronger than the engines of these ships, all of which were more powerful than the Republic Hammerheads which had engine cores strong enough to shatter planets.

The Darksaber iterations of Dorsk 81, Kyp Durron, Kirana Ti, Kam Solusar, Tionne Solusar, etc. using the Great Temple to telekinetically throw dozens of Star Destroyers beyond the bounds of the Yavin system like 'twigs in a storm' so much so that the hyperdrives of the entire fleet were heavily damaged as well as many other internal systems.
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on August 24th 2019, 6:47 am
Azronger wrote:I'd also nominate Sheev burying the Lusankya, Luke destroying and rebuilding Bast Castle, and Darth Nihilus holding the Ravager together (fuck Chris Avellone) for environmental feats.

For combat feats, I'd say Luke pinning UnuThul, Sheev repeatedly circumventing Maul's barrier over the course of one fight with his sheer mastery, and Krayt nonchalantly tossing Cade around are the most impressive. For implied feats, Sheev being able to instantly one-shot Luke and Vader would be up there as well.


Nah, wasn't Bast Castle. It was a Fortress Retreat on Coruscant. If it were Bast Castle then it becomes retarded considering how easily he remade it. Then he later took all the pieces of it and effortlessly crushed them into pebbles.

I'd add Ikrit easily ragdolling frigates and ships though. Even overpowering their thrusters. 
Brakiss manipulating Sun plasma/starfire as well to make it appear like it's dancing between the two suns. They try attributing it to pyrokinesis, but, I mean...
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on August 24th 2019, 7:19 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:Continuing from that, why would Krayt effectively acknowledge Cade's point, demand him to surrender, and unleash Force lightning if he was just causally thrashing Cade around? You generally switch tactics if your current one isn't working, not when you're totally winning. And even if that was a mental fluke on Krayt's part, why didn't Krayt ragdoll Cade again later on if he could do it whenever and effortlessly? Instead, Krayt and Cade had a protracted duel that took them out of the temple structure to the balcony (i.e. a fair distance away), and Cade even appeared to be advancing on Krayt rather than the other way around until the Dark Transfer opening.
I don't really care about the particulars of you and Az's debate (I think Krayt obviously can exert more TK control over Cade than say, Wyyrlok, but no he can't oneshot him either. Az is right about Krayt dragging him through the air), but insisting that there was a "protracted duel" in which Cade was "advancing on Krayt" is complete horseshit that needs to die, so I'm nipping it in the bud here.

We've had duels in Legacy that were depicted as visibly intense for both sides with lots of visual cues, spanning over anything from 3 to 8 pages. In the climax comic of the entire series which had already given us Krayt vs Wyyrlok, Antares Draco vs Roan Fel and several long, less important fights - we were given one page of Cade and Krayt "fighting", and then a following two panels of Cade losing. Note that:

1. Krayt didn't bother to ignite a lightsaber at the start.
2. He immediately TK'd Cade despite him being perfectly combat ready.
3. When they enter a duel, Krayt only deigns to use one lightsaber, even though in every other fight he had used both, being a Jar'kai specialist.
4. Krayt's completely nonchalant attitude from start to finish: assuming victory before and during the fight, no visible signs of anger (at least not even close to comparable to every other fight we've seen from Krayt) and there's also the fact  he was intent on a very specific type of victory over Cade - surprising him with dark transfer. Meaning he closed himself off from every other avenue available to him.

So unless you get around the fact that Ostrander intentionally made the fight a short, one-sided victory for a nonchalant Krayt, despite nearly every other major fight in Legacy (we're talking 10-15 major fights over a 50+ comic series) spanning at least three pages and being visually hard-fought and having ample opportunity to do the same here (the comic dedicated more pages to Krayt monologuing to Cade and Cade's epilogue with Luke each than the fight), and the fact Krayt is clearly using far less effort here than he has in any other fight (he even tried harder fighting 4 Imperial Knights), I don't see how you can argue that Cade did anything noteworthy here.
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