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KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 1:56 am
Reborn Krayt>Legacy Muur>=DT Muur~DT Sidious>RotS Sidious>>>>TPM Sidious>>Malak>>Kun

It is my understanding that Krayt grows far more powerful than when he fought Muur through his rebirth, so even if he's inferior by a small margin, peak Krayt should very plausibly be above Legacy Muur.

To reiterate: Krayt ragdolls
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Suspect Hero | Level Four

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 2:06 am
It's literally not even plausible to argue Muur is stronger without the Star Map.

Also KEK at still using the Malak quote when Kun is indisputably on the level of later Sidious incarnations.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 2:09 am
We still aren’t getting any reasons for anything all everyones saying is a bunch of names and >>>

Can we actually get an argument for Krayt cos I don’t c how he can be scaled as high as Kun
Shimrra
Shimrra

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 2:11 am
Krayt stomps both rounds
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
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Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 2:17 am
How? No, literally, how?

Ellimist one-shotted Krayt's only legit claim to a top spot through Luke. So, let's hear it.

Vaelias
Vaelias

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 2:25 am
@Shimrra wrote:Krayt stomps both rounds

Care to be the first to explain why please
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 2:38 am
It is plausible because Vader thinks him+Muur is enough to take down DT Sidious. While it's ambiguous as to whether Vader has a full gauge on DT Sidious, Vader has at least seen RotS Sidious in action. So DT Vader+DT Muur>RotS Sidious is our minimum baseline. And since DT Vader is logically far less powerful than ANH Vader who is in turn far less powerful than RotJ Vader, who is in turn far less powerful than TPM Kenobi, who would in turn get stomped by RotS Sidious, it's clear DT Muur is carrying nearly all of the weight here. Which means DT Muur is at minimum a peer of RotS Sidious, and plausibly above. Nothing precludes spirit Muur from growing more powerful over the millennia, so Muur's weakness in life isn't binding. Kun, however is capped below the Malak quote and the infinite number of Sidious supremacy quotes. At least TotJ Kun that is, I have no issue with JA Spirit Kun being with Sidious, though I also have no issue with forcing a hard retcon with the infinite supremacy quotes if one refuses to accept the disparity between TotJ and JA Kun
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Suspect Hero | Level Four

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 2:52 am
Vader literally thinks Sidious is god-like by comparison when he gets a proper gauge of his power and doesn't even dare form a thought of rebellion because he thinks Sheev might be legitimately omniscient. Yeah, I'm gonna say that Vader's thoughts whilst he's being manipulated by Muur into delusions of grandeur is certainly not any kind of measurement. Certainly not for arguing that Muur with a single accolade saying the talisman is getting more dangerous, is suddenly ROTS Sheev tier.


Exar Kun is canonically not capped by Malak by any means at all. Nor are accolades that Leland Chee on three occasions has said outright are not absolute, any form of cap.

Prime Muur with his main source of power, the Star Map, is canonically two thousand years of generational raw power growth beneath Naga Sadow, who isn't even on Nadd's tier nevermind the bigger names.

The spirit of Exar Kun has indisputable feats and accolades in original source material that absolutely place him near the Emperor. The spirit of Exar Kun is canonically a literal shadow of his former self as compared to TOTJ. You'd have to straight up ignore a litany of sources confirming this as a fact with no leeway whatsoever.

There's nothing here good enough to prevent why Exar Kun stomps.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 3:04 am
Vader thinks that about OT Sheev, yes, I don't see how that's at all equivalent to Vader having seen RotS Sidious dueling Windu to a stalemate or nigh instantaneously overwhelming Windu with lightning. While it's possible DT Sidious has grown more powerful than Vader's estimations, Vader having seen RotS sheev go all out establishes RotS Sidious as the baseline.

Chee doesn't matter because he thinks all supremacy quotes aren't binding because he doesn't think future authors should have their creative power restricted. To toss out those quotes is to toss out all supremacy quotes, which include Kun's.

Citation needed for Living Muur being his peak

Citation needed for JA Kun being a shadow of TotJ Kun



TotJ Kun doesn't deserve to lick Krayt's boots thanks
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 6:25 am
Message reputation : 100% (3 votes)
Vader's having his estimations of his own power inflated by Muur during that scene. That's Muur trying to convince Vader to take the amulet, when Muur's literally just going to dominate him so he can break free and live again.

Leland Chee absolutely doesn't think that, a different user addressed an original question which Leland Chee goes onto agree with, but not for that reason. He's directly addressing the Darth Sidious accolades and he does so three times:

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Screenshot_20201026-145452_Chrome
Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Images_1_1o
Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 6883398-sidious%20is%20the%20most%20powerful%20sith%20lord

So no, Chee outright counters the Darth Sidious quotes. As far as the Kun accolade is concerned, Chee literally fact-checked it himself, so given your belief in the Malak quote I assume you'll remain consistent with the stance that Chee's involvement equates to outright endorsement.

'Truly live again' as Ostrander puts it, denotes that this is in fact Muur's endgame. To gain a host he can dominate, become more powerful, and return to his living form:

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 CVJId8A

But moreover, Ajunta Pall confirms that the literal source of their power, which made them more powerful than any before, was the Star Map:

Revan and Ajunta Pall, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"This secret... is it the Star Map?"

"I... I do not remember. A map? Perhaps it is a map. But it has not been buried with me. All I have now is my sword."

Ajunta Pall and Revan, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"We revered power and threw off the teachings of our old masters. It... we were not the first to fall to the dark side. But we... had more power than those before us. It... came from elsewhere..."

"What do you mean? Came from where?"

"Our oldest secret. Only... only we would know, we lords. Only we would know where our power came from..."

The power of said Star Map was 'blinding' compared to them:

Ajunta Pall, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"So much power... it is blinding. I... I remember so little..."

Better yet, Pall confirms that they lost that power before they slaughtered each other:

Ajunta Pall, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"And so here our old secret is buried and none of us hold it any more... is that not right? Our power fled. Oh, what became of us? Do... do the Sith still thrive? Did they ever return?"

So Karness Muur in his prime with the Star Map's 'blinding' power fueling him or Muur's spirit trapped in a Talisman. Hard to decide.

If you seriously need a quote for JA Kun being inferior to TOTJ Kun then you're only proving how little information your argument is really based on.

First of all, Kun's power is extinguished by the combined power of the Jedi Order:

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 4354132-nomi%20sunrider%20wall%20of%20light%20on%20exar%20kun%203

Then we know he spent four thousand years going half insane. By JA, Kun's confirmed to be attempting to restore his lost reserves of Force energy to become powerful enough to become a living being again:

Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Exar Kun passed the millennia in uneasy slumber.
A few scant years later, Kun is brought sharply awake by the arrival of not one or two, but a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again. Eagerly but cautiously, Kun observes each arrival, probing for weaknesses and the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy. For a time, he is able to subside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active. With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form.

It's even more evident that he lost his power given he goes from a spirit that can freely traverse the cosmos to requiring the Yavin IV temples to prevent his spirit from being permanently destroyed:

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTJLF8keQS2xt4ht4aLUuQA9iOGaXeoNhhhrkJryOj2VYMdK2yY&usqp=CAU
Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:Exar Kun-who didn't technically die so much as merge with the dark side and retain his identity-resisted the dissolution of his spirit by drawing on the remarkable focusing energies of the Massassi temples on Yavin 4.

Both Tom Veitch and Kevin J. Anderson, the lone authors responsible for Exar Kun as a character. Who worked on each other's works; Tales of the Jedi and Jedi Academy Trilogy respectively. State living Exar Kun was more powerful than in Jedi Academy:

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Screen43
Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Screen64

TotJ Kun doesn't deserve to lick Krayt's boots thanks

Indeed, right you are. Kun doesn't deserve to have to touch a demonstratably inferior pretender in any form:

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQoe71WcmF-DY2Ma8GSPa-uNONXSSEb6s0fSQ&usqp=CAU
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 11:45 pm
The one who isnt sub malak Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 1019854026
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 29th 2020, 11:48 pm
So Exar Kun wins, agreed. Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 3344068304
Vaelias
Vaelias

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 12:18 am
Exar Kun wins there’s no question about it
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Five
Level Five

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 1:25 am
Leland Chee isn't even in direct contact with Lucas himself and admits it. He has no authority over G-Canon so you should minimize your Fat Fuck Chee fetish AP.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Suspect Hero | Level Four

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 1:26 am
He has all the authority in the world over C-canon, lmao.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
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Level Five

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 1:31 am
Why in the fuck C-Canon should matter when we are talking about G-Canon? Lucas and all other his henchmen acknowledge that Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever lived and there is literally nothing that can counter those quotes or whatsoever.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 1:34 am
Right, the Lucas quotes that don't even apply to characters outside of his own movies because he doesn't acknowledge their existence. He also wrote that the Sith Order was created 2,000 years ago. Also, Mace Windu can't beat armies of battle droids.

Shit argument.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
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Level Five

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 1:46 am
Stop whining like a bitch AP. Lucas doesn't care about your feelings. EU is bound to follow Lucas' vision and everything revolves around his actual work. If Lucas says Sidious is the strongest Sith that ever lived, neither you and I or that slant-eye Leland Chee has anything to say on the matter or object to it. There are shit tons of sources aside from Lucas which also supports his stance and you have literally nothing on your hands that can override them. Accept that your arguments are worthless and stop wasting time on this crap.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 2:11 am
Someone's mad. Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 1076326320

The context of the statements Lucas makes are absolutely relevant. I am beyond certain that if you actually posted said quote, I'd rip it apart easily.

Stop crying on the forums.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
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Level Five

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 2:18 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Why would I be mad AP? Unlike you, I am not obsessed over a stupid fictional character and harass authors/external sources to confirm my doubts and arguments 7/24.

Also bro, are you for real? You are almost about to hit ISV tier crying over the forums, you don't get lecture anyone over whining, my man Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 4037459623
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 2:21 am
Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 3344068304
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 2:24 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
You literally came into the thread and attacked me for daring to reference Leland Chee, who we all know you hate. So how about you actually bring up a point worth my time or stop wasting it.

I haven't cried or whined, you turned into Karen. I'm here stomping Krayt, as it always should be.

Your arms are just too short to box with this God.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Suspect Hero | Level Four

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 2:27 am
Message reputation : 100% (5 votes)

You couldn't form a single coherent, individual opinion if you were forced to represent yourself in a North Korean death sentence trial.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
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Level One

Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 2:28 am
Says the guy who ruins Jobs of other people.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

on October 30th 2020, 2:29 am
What is that even meant to mean? Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun - Page 4 1076326320
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