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Reynard (Ethanion)
Reynard (Ethanion)

Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Empty Top 15 Tourney Character Cases

November 25th 2022, 9:27 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
This is a thread to make cases for characters in the revamped Top 15 Tourney.

Reynard (Ethanion)
Reynard (Ethanion)

Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Empty Charal: Witch Queen of Endor

November 26th 2022, 12:16 am
Message reputation : 100% (4 votes)
Finally, being unbanned after 3 years, a case can now be made for Charal.

I'm going to post the fight between Logray and Charal now, in-full.

Shadows of Endor wrote:
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So briefly, here is what I think is going on in that fight. When we first meet Charal in the comic a darkness falls over the area, it is clearly day and when Charal arrives it is clearly not (this is also the only case of which I am aware where an ability a character is given in the stats makes it over to C-canon content, the ability is called enshroud and found in Star Wars Gamer 9). * This will be important later on.

Charal then has a vison of "the coming darkness", noting what has come already is "only the beginning". Included in the vison are Darth Vader and Imperial forces. Charal says the Sunstar possesses just enough power to repel this force. * This will be important later on.

Logray and Charal's battle starts with Logray attacking on un-guarded Charal, assuming that Logray is pulling from his usual bag of tricks, this is an attempt at severing Charal's force abilities.

Sun Star Against Shadow Stone wrote:Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Morag_10

And as a result Charal's enshrouding is not deactivated, Charal is capable of launching an immediate counter and still capable of using Dathomir's greatest magick (unaided by ritual, incantation, or the energies of Dathomir) though it is notably less powerful than Old Daka's own spell.

Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Daka_s10

Charal is then hit by what appears to be a combination of the sever technique shown and a burst of telekinesis. Goes on to disarm Logray and then claims she will show Logray a power even greater than that of the coming darkness by combining her power with that of the Sunstar. * This will be important later.

Charal flies off and it is noted that the Sunstar's energy is depleted and gone from the battle with Charal.

Shadows of Endor wrote:Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Ssd010
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Now I'm going to quantify the power of the Sunstar.

(For this section it is important to understand that this comic was written in 2013 and that there is an attempt with Charal to tie her in with the depiction of the Nightsisters as seen in The Clone Wars, so my understanding of the comic flows from that.)

Here is a general thread describing its power.

However I want to talk about the power possessed by the Sunstar in the context of the comic itself, power enough to repel the "coming darkness". And to do that, I need to talk about how Palpatine and his regime manifests itself in Force visions (as seen in the Clone Wars).

So in Star Wars, the Jedi have been the protectors of the galaxy, the most powerful and respected force of all, for a thousand generations (25000 years).

A New Hope wrote:Ben Kenobi: "An elegant weapon for a more civilized time. For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire."

A New Hope Novelization wrote:Top 15 Tourney Character Cases The_mo10

-Carnage of Krell wrote:Pong Krell: “I'm no longer naive enough to be a Jedi. A new power is rising, I've foreseen it. The Jedi are going to lose this war, and the Republic will be ripped apart from the inside. In its place is going to rise a new order, and I will rule as part of it.”

Dogma: “You're a Separatist!”

Pong Krell: “I serve no one's side, only my own. And soon, my new master.”

Dogma: “You're an agent of Dooku.”

Pong Krell: “Not yet, but when I get out of here, I will be. After I've succeeded in driving the Republic from Umbara, the Count will reward my actions and make me his new apprentice.”

Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Krell_10

The visions seen by Pong Krell are the same seen by Yoda in the Clone Wars.

-Relaunched Fact File 96 wrote:Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Rise_o10
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These visions showed the destruction of the Jedi Order, the power of Darth Sidious, and it was noted that this was the power that had been building since histories inception. Yoda is knocked out by the visions, and then told what he saw was only a portion of what the darkside now holds, Yoda does not believe the Jedi Order can stop this threat.

The power of the dark is tied to the regime, is tied to the power of histories darkness, and is tied to the Sith. A power greater than the Jedi Order, and one that will continue to expand and consume the galaxy.

-Adventures Magazine 7 wrote:Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Consum10

The Father and Overlords wrote:”There are some who would like to exploit out power, the Sith are but one. Too much dark or light would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

-George Lucas, Star Wars Archives 1999-2005 wrote:Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Archiv10

Also of note, the Emperor of visions and prophecy is a Force that is one best faced by both the newly invigorated Son and Anakin Skywalker, and may overcome them.

-Ghosts of Mortis Episode Gallery wrote:Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Might10

Yoda and Maul have some doubts on whether or not Sidious is actually as powerful as the dark side makes him seem,
-Son of Dathomir wrote:Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Weaker10

Palpatine and Yoda, Revenge of the Sith wrote:
"Your arrogance blinds you Master Yoda, now you will experience the full power of the dark side."
”If so powerful you are, why leave?”

however the full power of the force's dark side does manifest itself in visions centering around the Sith, the Empire, and it is this power that the Sunstar is just powerful enough to repel. Also noteworthy is the fact that Charal believes she can demonstrate a power greater than that of the coming darkness (while presumably being heavily drained, using the heavily drained Sunstar) whereas the Sunstar alone is "just enough" to repel it.

Charal is a mere shadow of her former self by the time of this battle, having languished on Endor for a hundred years, and is still an even match for Logray and the Sunstar (does better in the fight, but she is at least that.)

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-Relaunched Fact File 97
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-Star Wars Gamer 9
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-Relaunched Fact File 98

Charal, who is massively post prime, has a connection to the Force that cannot be severed by an artifact capable of repelling the greatest manifestation of the Force's dark side ever, an artifact (as seen in the Sunstar respect thread) capable of doing away with the Emperor, one whose energy can be felt across the universe. Charal, who is massively post prime, is capable of warding off telekinetic assaults from an artifact described as possessing the most powerful magick in the universe, magick that can telekinetically manipulate Endor's sister moons (Endor is roughly the size of mars) thousands of kilometers through the night sky in seconds against their natural orbits. Charal, who is massively post prime, tanks so much of the Sunstar's energy that she depletes its power to almost nothing, to sub-Logray levels (look at Logray versus Sunstar in the Sunstar respect thread) taking its "virtually unlimited" energy and leaving it with nothing. The Sunstar can repel the great darkness, but not her enshrouding.

Charal, who is massively post prime, is nearly as powerful as the dark side of the cosmic force reaching its very apex. I could talk about how she can use Dathomir's most complex and powerful spells without the aid of Nexus, incantation, or ritual (and what that implies combatively), but I feel content in just putting a case forward for her based on her depletion of the Sunstar's energy.

Charal should be on your lists for the same reason that Onimi is probably on your lists.
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Empty Exar Kun: The Ascended

November 26th 2022, 3:41 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Gethzerion is the infamous Nightsister whose power was such that in 1ABY, Emperor Palpatine had Dathomir blockaded, and who may have defeated the Emperor if he'd attempted a direct confrontation:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Her powers grew through devotion to the dark side, and she was determined that her clan would rule, and eventually, escape the planet on which she had been stranded by Emperor Palpatine, who had been disturbed by Gethzerion's growing power.

The Essential Reader's Companion wrote:The newcomers to Dathomir promptly encounter the Witches of the planet. The warriors of the Singing Mountain Clan are noble and fearless females who enslave males as breeding stock and ride atop trained rancor beasts. The Witch named Teneniel Djo at first wants to enslave Luke and Isolder, but she later comes to respect them. Such is not the case with the wicked Nightsister clan ruled by Gethzerion. They are cruel and evil magic wielders who long to escape the blockaded world. Years earlier, Palpatine was alarmed by their growing power and purposely stranded them on Dathomir.

The Essential Guide To Planets And Moons wrote:When the Nightsisters made contact, the Emperor was stunned by the depth of their leader Gethzerion's power. Wanting to keep her abilities safely bottled up, Palpatine ordered the prison's ships destroyed from orbit; the stranded guards were enslaved by Gethzerion and her twisted followers.

The Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:But the Emperor, who sensed Gethzerion's power through the Force, realized that once Gethzerion mastered the controls of a shuttle, she could reach the orbiting docking facility, and from there spread her influence to the rest of the galaxy, one day perhaps even challenging him.

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:But after Emperor Palpatine learned the power of the Nightsister's leader, Gethzerion, he ordered all prison's ships destroyed to prevent her from leaving the planet.

Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Imperial forces constructed orbital shipyards and a penal colony on Dathomir's surface. But after Emperor Palpatine learned the power of the Nightsisters' leader, Gethzerion, he ordered all the prison's ships destroyed to prevent her from leaving the planet.
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Leia Organa, The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:"I believe the Emperor himself was afraid of the Nightsisters. That's why he interdicted this planet. Years ago, he started a nice little penal colony here, not knowing about the Nightsisters. When he learned about them, he blew the planet's airfield from orbit and stranded hundreds of his own people here, along with the prisoners, rather than risk letting Gethzerion escape. That's how frightened he was of Gethzerion."

Jedi Academy Training Manual wrote:A recently established prison colony on Dathomir brings the Nightsisters to the attention of Emperor Palpatine, who gauges the possibility of them being a threat to his reign.

The Essential Guide to Characters wrote:When he was alive, Emperor Palpatine had known of Gethzerion. He allowed her twisted usage of the dark side of the Force as long as she was trapped on Dathomir, where an Imperial penal colony housed political prisoners.
Knowing the extent of her powers, though, he decided it would be dangerous to let her get off planet, so Palpatine ordered the orbiting airfield destroyed, in the process stranding many of his own people.

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Cracken Threat Dossier wrote:`Gethzerion used her newfound knowledge to gather the other outcasts. While the clan looked on, Gethzerion used her "Shadow Magic" to form the Nightsisters. They found their power grew quickly.

The growing "Dark Energy" emerging from Dathomir did not go unnoticed. Emperor Palpatine felt the Nightsister's presence and realized if they were to escape Dathomir, they could become a threat to his power. He closed off all contact to the world, using atmospheric bombardment to destroy any space-going vessels on the planet.`

In the same year, Kyrisa challenges Gethzerion for the position of Clan Mother:

Star Wars Galaxies: Trading Card Game - The Nightsister's Revenge wrote:Following a fierce battle for leadership, the Nightsister clan of witches on Dathomir has banished one of their own, an extremely powerful Force sensitive named Kyrisa who has developed the ability to control the minds of beasts with the Force. At the orders of Clan Mother Gethzerion, Kyrisa was exiled from Dathomir and crash-landed on the planet Hoth. Enraged at her banishment, Kyrisa vowed revenge against Clan Mother Gethzerion and the Nightsisters. Taking refuge deep within the icy caverns on Hoth, she quickly took control of wampas creating a new pack of minions that she used to wreak havoc on both the Rebel and Imperial military forces on the surface of Hoth, stealing supplies necessary to help her return home to enact her revenge. Her abilities to manipulate the beasts is so complete that both Jedi and Sith want this knowledge, or at the very least to remove the Force-user as a threat to their objectives on the surface.

Kyrisa battled Gethzerion for leadership of the Nightsister Clan, as is stated above said battle was 'fierce':

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But Kyrisa experienced a rebirth after being exiled to Hoth, fueled by a desire for revenge:
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Star Wars Galaxies: Trading Card Game - The Nightsister's Revenge wrote:This latest set tells the tale of Kyrisa, an extremely powerful Force sensitive who can control the minds of beasts with the Force. Exiled by her own clan to the frozen planet of Hoth, Kyrisa's formidable mind and will is bent on revenge. Any who stand in her way will feel her fury in the teeth and claws of her Beast minions.

She's stated to be possibly more dangerous now than Gethzerion by Augywnne:

Star Wars Galaxies: Trading Card Game - The Nightsister's Revenge wrote:'This one is Kyrisa,' says Augwynne. 'She became such a threat to her own clan that they exiled her. She is perhaps the most dangerous of all.'

Kyrisa is defeated by the Hero and flees:

Star Wars Galaxies: Trading Card Game - The Nightsister's Revenge wrote:Players can pit their skills against Kyrisa, an exiled Nightsister witch who has been using her Force sensitivity to control the minds of wampas and wreak havoc on the Imperial and Rebel forces stationed on the icy planet of Hoth.

Star Wars Galaxies: Trading Card Game - The Nightsister's Revenge wrote:'My Maraki is gone,' says a woman's voice from behind you. You turn to look up the hill and see Kyrisa, the exiled Nightsister, standing on top. 'You have slain one of my children,' she says. Her red eyes flash and the tattooed streaks on her face contort with anger.
'I took shelter from the storm,' you say. 'The beasts attacked and I defended myself.'
'Enough of your lies!' she screams. At her side now are two fierce wampas. 'You invaded their home and murdered them!'
It's obvious she's going to attack any second. You ready your weapon as she says, 'You will die like all the humans on this planet! Hoth belongs to Kyrisa!' She throws her arms forward and her deadly menagerie attacks.
Kyrisa's beasts are well trained and fight to the death to defend her. Still, the battle turns against the exiled Nightsister and she jumps on the back of a hog to make her escape.
'Your fate is sealed!' she cries. 'I will find you again to exact my revenge!' Then she rides away into the swirling snow.

It takes four of these Heros to defeat Exar Kun's spirit:

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Yet Exar Kun is not yet at full power:

Chapter 9: The Fury of Exar Kun announcement wrote:Hidden below the Temple of Exar Kun on Yavin 4 lays the tomb of this legendary Sith Lord. Exar Kun's spirit is so strong and malevolence so great, that he has withstood death for 4,000 years, waiting for an opportunity to finally obtain the godhood he so desires.

Domain of Evil, Star Wars Galaxies wrote:Exar Kun's essence remains trapped in his temple on Yavin 4. The Dark Lord of the Sith is far from powerless, and he bides his time in his domain, waiting for just the right opportunity to return.

His only hosts are archaeologists with no Force power:

Chapter 9: The Fury of Exar Kun' announcement, Star Wars Galaxies, LucasArts wrote:A group of archeologists excavating nearby have discovered the tomb's crumbled antechamber, and as they explored deeper, have succumbed to Exar Kun's powerful will. Players must eliminate each of the now twisted but powerful archeologists on their way to finally put the spirit of Exar Kun to rest.

In Jedi Academy however, Exar Kun has three Force users to draw strength from, two of whom are great Force prodigies:

Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power. He grows very powerful on Kyp's hate, and soon his hold on Kyp is so complete that he can send Kyp beyond the planet to do his will and still retain control over his subject.

Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Exar Kun himself possessed a great many other dark powers that he was unable to harness without the energy he needed to fuel his disembodied will. Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.

When the Jedi students with the spirit of Luke Skywalker joined their power to defeat Exar Kun, they were well aware of both each other's power and their united imagination:
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Note specifically:
Darksaber wrote:"We pooled our strengths, we joined as one, as champions of the Force-and, united, we unlocked a greater reservoir of strength than any of us could have imagined."`

Darksaber wrote:He drew more energy from the others. He could feel the determination and controlled anger of Kyp Durron, the clean fighting prowess of Kirani Ti, the powerful deep knowledge of Tionne, the grim pain of Kam Solusar, the childlike wonder of Streen-and more. . . more. He took all of the Jedi trainees within himself, braiding the threads together, becoming a vast and complex set of memories, strengths, and skills.

Luke himself remembers this joining as 'one':

Children of the Jedi wrote:"Yes,” said Luke, remembering the power of the Force flowing into him as he’d battled Exar Kun for the final time,

Despite this, the power that they had whilst joined together was nothing compared to the power unleashed when Dorsk 81 channelled even more to throw a fleet of seventeen star destroyers out of a solar system:
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Indeed, the feat is quite clearly even more overshadowed by the wall of light that was summoned to destroy Exar Kun, four millennia earlier:

I, Jedi wrote:Twelve half-trained apprentices and two toddlers planning to annihilate someone who had survived an onslaught by the combined might of the Jedi of his age sounded ridiculous on the surface of it.
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In fact, Exar Kun's performance against the combined Jedi Order was nothing short of excellent:

I, Jedi wrote:I let Streen fill Kun with our resolve to unite and defeat him, but Kun's contempt for us came rolling back along the line like an echo. He had faced fleets of ships and all the known Jedi. He had slain his own master. His power was unrivaled. He had defeated our Master and beyond our resolve to fight, we had no operative plans and nothing with which to challenge him. We were snacks he would devour at his leisure, not morsels that might choke him.

Gnost-Dural, Timeline: The Exar Kun War wrote:The Republic drove Kun back to Yavin 4, where the Dark Lord enacted a ritual, sacrificing his armies to keep his spirit alive. Though unable to defeat him entirely, the Jedi were able to imprison Exar Kun's spirit in the temples on Yavin 4. From what we know, it remains there to this day.

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Exar Kun achieves this with the ritual, however the ritual itself was merely Exar Kun opening new doorways of power to make himself 'all-powerful':

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Jedi Academy Vol.2: Dark Apprentice wrote:`"I want your anger, Gantoris. I want you to open the doorways of power. I am barred from the physical plane--but with enough other Sith followers, I could be at peace. I could even live again."`
Jedi Academy Vol.2: Dark Apprentice wrote:"I could show you techniques that were lost thousands of years ago, secret rites and hidden doorways to power that no weak Jedi Master like Skywalker dares to touch."
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Per Tom Veitch, Exar Kun is still present in his body years after the battle of Yavin IV and has been dying since then, as he is trapped and powerless
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In fact, both Star Wars Galaxies: Trading Card Game and Star Wars the Old Republic depict Exar Kun fighting in the flesh in a land battle against the Jedi and the Republic up until the Wall of Light descends:

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This battle is also referenced in The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia:
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Thus one can infer that:

Battle of Yavin IV Exar Kun ~ TOTJ Jedi Order >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dorsk 81 Avatar > Jedi Academy Wall of Light > JA Spirit of Exar Kun >>> SWG Spirit of Exar Kun ~ 4 × 1 Hero >> Kyrisa >/~ SWG Gethzerion = power growth 'disturbing' 1ABY Emperor Palpatine, current power a 'threat' to 1ABY Emperor Palpatine, 1ABY Emperor Palpatine 'stunned by' and 'afraid' of said power, 'might even' soundly defeat 1ABY Emperor Palpatine per author.
Level Three
Level Three

Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Empty Re: Top 15 Tourney Character Cases

November 30th 2022, 3:09 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)

Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Saba_s10


When assembling a strike team to hunt for Zonama Sekot, Saba is one of Luke's top choices specifically due to her "peculiar" Force senses, allowing her to be "stealthy, keen-sensed, and quick-witted." These senses are heightened to the point that Luke is reliant on her being able to sense Sekot through the Force, for she could sense through the Force more accurately than any human could, including Luke himself.

New Jedi Order: Force Heretic I: Remnant wrote:"We're not asking you to come out of sympathy, Saba. We - I am asking you to come because you are a Jedi Knight, and we need your help. Your life sensitivity has grown enormously since the loss of your people. You have to admit that we could use someone like that, where we're going."


The quest to find Zonama Sekot would be played out over weeks, maybe months, through dangerous and uncharted territories. There would be clues to discover, trails to follow, traps to unravel. They would have to be stealthy, keen-sensed, and quick-witted. Who knew where it would lead them, or what they might find at the end of it?

Her tail thumped the floor. Part of her responded to the challenge-and there was a challenge implicit in the Master's voice. A reminder of who she had been, and still was on many levels. She was a hunter, the end result of generations of breeding and a lifetime of instincts. If anyone could hunt a living planet, it would be her.

New Jedi Order: Force Heretic II: Refugee wrote:"Tell me, Commander, how would you feel if I were to tell you that most Chiss I've met have been arrogant and condescending." Luke signaled for patience. "Saba is life-sensitive. We hope that she will detect Zonama Sekot by its Force emissions when we are near it."

New Jedi Order: Force Heretic III: Reunion wrote:She reached out around her with the Force, trying to isolate the unease she was feeling. She could sense her fellow Jedi Knights, could feel the mixed life signals of the airships and various Ferroans nearby, could feel-She stopped, realizing what it was that troubled her - something so subtle that a human might have missed it.

Force senses of course are essential for fighting, especially in lightsaber combat.

Star Wars: I, Jedi wrote:Kam and I had come up with a plan for teaching some basic combat skills to the other recruits, and Master Skywalker ap-proved our plans with a few slight modifications. We took the others through the standard procedures, walking them through drills at slow speeds, then working along faster and faster until their reflexes sharpened and responses to attacks came auto-matically. Into this whole mix Luke injected the Force, asking us to feel our opponents through the Force and monitor what was happening to them.

Star Wars: I, Jedi wrote:As Kam began to layer in lessons about fighting with a light-saber, sensing my opponent became more important. My ability in that area began to grow, but I didn't trust it enough to aban-don myself to it. Though we sparred with padded wooden prac-tice swords, I treated each cut or slash as if it were from a true lightsaber. Very defensive, I relied upon the basics that Kam taught and found they stood me in good stead close to ninety percent of the time.

Star Wars: I, Jedi wrote:Over the next ten minutes we continued to spar. My reading of his intention was far from foolproof, and I had the bruises to prove it. I did notice a pattern: after four or five successful evasions I would become confident and even cocky, which is when the sense would fail me and I'd pay an agonizing price for my arrogance. By keeping myself calm and focused, by letting my senses project themselves beyond my mortal shell, I could feel Gantoris as well as see and hear and smell him. In the end I evaded him for a full minute with only the breeze from his blade hitting me.

I, Jedi wrote:That evening, after dinner, I found myself thinking about what Luke had said. The idea that I had to first feel the Force before I could employ it made me reevaluate what I had learned so far. Luke had also said that prior to what we tried earlier we had only been using the Force passively, to enhance our senses. This made me wonder if I had been tapping the reservoir of Force energy that my body produced. It occurred to me that each living creature generated enough of the Force to keep them aware of and in touch with the world, but to push beyond that required an expanded flow of energy.

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- Obi-Wan Kenobi Databank (


Dark Nest I: The Joiner King wrote:
She arrived to find Saba strapped to a primitive stretcher, an elliptical slice of scalp and skull missing from one side of her head. Han was already standing at the Barabel's side, trying to quiet her.
Her lisp was more pronounced than usual-a bad sign, given the head wound. Leia also saw a number of other injuries-a circle of broken scales around her temple, some lost fingertips, a third of a tail missing, and some suspicious swelling on her neck and calf. Lying on the stretcher, strapped next to the injured tail, was something that hadn't come off Saba-a human bicep fused at the elbow to a chitinous Killik forearm.
Leia's arms had become deadweights fifteen minutes into the fight, and she was able to wield her lightsaber now only by virtue of the strength Saba was lending her through the Force. Han had run out of power packs-she had not noticed when - and traded his T-21 for a pair of captured assault rifles, which he had taken to firing one in each hand. The bugcrunchers had taken so many hits that Bugs One through Three had exhausted their laminanium repair ingots. With the exception of Saba - who only seemed to grow quicker, stronger, and more joyful as the battle wore on-even the Jedi Masters were slowing, if the tattered condition of their combat vac suits was any indication.

Saba, injured, and lending a portion of her strength to Leia is growing "quicker and stronger" against the Killiks compared to Kyp Durron and Kyle Katarn, who are "slowing and tattered" in comparison.


Lomi Plo and Welk are leaders of the Killik Colony's evil unconscious, the Dark Nest, and are in control of the Will of the Colony, who is UnuThul. As such, they are able to draw from the power of the entire Colony in much the same way UnuThul can. This is supported by the Dark Nest exhibiting the same 'enormous, murky' presence as UnuThul;

Dark Nest I: The Joiner King wrote:When Luke reached out to probe her feelings, he experienced a deep sense of worry. Her scales rippled in alarm; then an enormous, murky presence rose inside her mind and pushed him out so forcibly that he stumbled into a membrosia dispenser.


Raynar's eyes grew very dark around the edges, and suddenly Luke could see nothing else. The murky presence began to reach into his mind, trying to push its way inside his thoughts to read his intentions. Luke was astonished by its power and had to reach deeply into the Force to bolster his own strength. Though the probe was hardly subtle or refined, it felt as though it were being driven by a thousand Raynars, and he feared for a moment that in his surprise he would be overwhelmed by its sheer might.

Then he felt Mara pouring her own strength into him, and Saba and even Leia. Together they pushed the dusky hand back. Luke found himself looking once again into the blue, lidless eyes of their host, and he finally began to comprehend just how difficult it was going to be to reach Raynar Thul.

Dark Nest I: The Joiner King wrote:He continued to fire for a second longer, pouring his rage and disbelief at her through the Force, until the bend in the shaft vanished behind a curtain of ethmane steam. He sensed no shame or sorrow in the Twi'lek, only the enormous, murky presence of the Dark Nest.

Jacen's musings;

Dark Nest III: The Swarm War wrote:Jacen's face grew worried. "But you're one against two, and they'll have the Force potential of the entire Colony to draw on. You'll need all the power you can get!"

And the New Essential Chronology;

Top 15 Tourney Character Cases D840ad253d196e31f6815f7081e2e4b2-png

From Raynar the Colony learns to value individual life, from Lomi the Colony learns paranoia, and from Welk the Colony learns to be devoted to Lomi. All three of them exert an influence over the Colony, but it's Raynar who is its Will. UnuThul is the posterchild while the Dark Nest are the ones pulling the strings behind the scenes.

From this we can establish Unu, Lomi and Welk as having the same power. Or if anything Lomi and Welk should be better due their base powers likely being beyond Raynar's, considering Raynar has nothing impressive before this. But I'm comfortable saying they're all equals and scale to one another as of book 1.

Meaning Welk benefits from...

Dark Nest I: The Joiner King wrote:...a full-grown ysalamiri, the Mon Calamari was saying, and suddenly Leia felt an enormous, murky presence in the Force pressing her away from the Prime. She looked up and found him staring in her direction, his blue eyes shining like a pair of oncoming blaster bolts. Leia raised her chin and held his gaze. Her vision grew dark around the edges, and soon she could see nothing but his eyes.

He winked and looked away, and Leia felt herself falling.

"Whoa!" Han caught her under her arms. "What's wrong?"

"Nothing." Leia allowed Han to hold her as her vision returned to normal. "The king is Force-sensitive."

"Yeah?" Han replied. "I've never seen you react that way before."

"Okay, he's very Force-sensitive."
Leia gathered her legs beneath her. "We might know him."

- Dark Nest I: The Joiner King

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- Star Wars: Empire's End

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Here's the full fight;

Welk versus Luke:

Though both are injured or recovering (Luke being tagged from fighting legions of Killiks and Welk still recovering from injuries sustained from the Saba fight), this should not have any bearing on one comparison.

Dark Nest I: The Joiner King wrote:Luke extended himself toward the glow, slamming his Force presence into Welk. It was like trying to push Qoribu out of orbit. Welk continued to come, bringing his blade around in a brazen full-reach attack.

Welk is able to no-sell Luke "slamming" his ”Force presence” into him, because it is akin to pushing a gas giant out of orbit. While Welk eventually loses pretty hard, it shouldn't detract from Welk being incredibly powerful in order to pull off a feat like that.

By this point, the Dark Nest trilogy (Luke at 54 years old), if Luke isn't number one for you already, he's at the very least approaching that tier. Imagine those on your list already - would they even be capable of surviving DN Luke slamming his Force presence into them, let alone no-selling it?

With that in mind, it's this fight that put Luke's skills to the ultimate test, drawing upon the Force as never before to defeat the Dark Nest.

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- The Making of Revenge of the Sith

(NOTE: I am unsure if this operates as a blurb or a regular source, but knowing what we know of Welk, take this a cherry on top.)

Here's what we've established for Welk-

A) Welk and UnuThul share the same power
B) In Leia's estimation, UnuThul is more powerful than DE Sidious
C) Welk isn't phased at all by DN Luke's Force attacks
D) Welk is perhaps the ultimate test for Luke up to this point


Here's the full fight;
Saba vs Welk:

Saba's injuries;

Dark Nest I: The Joiner King wrote:She arrived to find Saba strapped to a primitive stretcher, an elliptical slice of scalp and skull missing from one side of her head. Han was already standing at the Barabel's side, trying to quiet her.
Her lisp was more pronounced than usual-a bad sign, given the head wound. Leia also saw a number of other injuries-a circle of broken scales around her temple, some lost fingertips, a third of a tail missing, and some suspicious swelling on her neck and calf. Lying on the stretcher, strapped next to the injured tail, was something that hadn't come off Saba-a human bicep fused at the elbow to a chitinous Killik forearm.
"Do you think she'll survive?"

Leia studied the silken bandage that covered half of Saba's skull. "With that head wound, anyone else would be dead already," she said. "But Saba's a Barabel. Who knows?"
Saba still had a piece of skull missing under that thick hide of hers. She had talked Luke into bringing her along only by threatening to come anyway, but he knew better than to protest. It just wasn't smart to question a Barabel's ability to do anything.

The key takeaways from this fight should be that Welk seems to be the more powerful opponent, but Saba is not far behind at all, and makes up the difference by sheer physicality, skill, and tenacity. For instance, in a blade lock Saba releases her lightsaber and slashes at him with her claws from temple to jaw, slicing an eye off which leaves Welk "screaming in the Force." There are moments like these littered throughout.

Saba's durability is particularly impressive on both a macro and micro scale. Macro being even after suffering multiple injuries life threatening injuries that "anyone" would've died from, the prominent one being a lightsaber to the skull, and continuing to push through that until Welk escapes, and it's only after that that Saba stops chasing. And micro being when Saba suffers from the "blazing agony" of Welk's Force lightning followed by a lightsaber cut to the skull, and immediately following, is able to surprise Welk by slamming him into the ground and bite into his throat. Ruthless.

This is something Troy Denning speaks to, saying he'd like to write a duel between Saba and "almost anyone tough."

Troy Denning wrote:If you had a chance to write the duel between two Star Wars characters (chosen by you), which characters would you use and why?

TD: Boy, that’s a tough question. I think I’d like to write a duel between Luke and Krayt. And Saba and almost anyone tough.

Including... an Abeloth avatar.

Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse wrote:They were still two meters apart when the first tentacle touched Saba's face, then her entire head was webbed in tentacles. They were trying to push in everywhere, into her nostrils and eyes and her mouth, tapping against the tympanic membranes that covered her ear canals, even trying to slip up beneath her scales.
Even with no arms left to fight with, Abeloth remained determined to take Saba's body. Her huge mouth gaped open, revealing two rows of fangs - fangs sharp enough to shred blast armor, set in jaws wide enough to bite through a rancor neck.

That was no way to fight a Barabel.

Saba brought both fists up together, jamming them into Abeloth's mouth in a Force-enhanced double punch. The blow knocked a ten-centimeter hole through both sets of fangs, and when Abeloth bit down there was nothing but toothless gum clamping Saba's scaly forearms.

Still, the pain was excruciating, and Saba came close to stopping before she felt her forearms snapping. Hissing in pain, she balled her fists anyway, locking her talons deep into the back of Abeloth's throat. In one smooth jerk, she pulled her prey's head down sideways and exposed the neck.

Then Saba sank her fangs in deep. They sliced through skin and gristle and just kept sinking, cutting through muscle and bone and spinal cord. Abeloth's body went limp with shock. Saba used her broken arms to jerk the head down farther, exposing even more neck. She ripped flesh. She gnashed sinew. She crushed vertebrae. She whipped her muzzle back and forth, and she felt the prey's head pop loose.

Only then did Abeloth's jaws open and release Saba's broken arms. She let her hands open, and her claws slipped free. The head went flying across the balcony and landed at the feet of Tahiri and the two Void Jumpers. All three stared at the gruesome thing in open shock, until Tahiri finally seemed to recover her wits and look toward Saba.

Saba is able to resist Abeloth's tentacles and knock out her teeth, then, when Abeloth believes she has the upper hand by breaking Saba's arms, Saba bites Abeloth's neck, "ripping flesh", "gnashing sinew", "crushing her vertebrae", and eventually decapitates her. Though Abeloth is weakened, Troy's opinion should support that this is still a very impressive feat all things considered.


Legacy of the Force: Fury wrote:That fight…Caedus wished he had a holorecording of it. It had gone on for what had felt like forever. It had been brutal, with the advantage being held first by Luke, then by Caedus, in what he knew had been brilliant demonstrations of lightsaber technique, of raw power within the Force, of subtle Jedi and Sith skills. For all his pain, Caedus felt a swelling of pride—not just that he had survived that duel, but that he had waged it so well.

Legacy of the Force: Fury wrote:But he was still the best lightsaber swordsman around-excepting possibly Luke, perhaps the best there ever had been.

Darth Caedus believes his fight with Luke were brilliant demonstrations of lightsaber technique and raw power, swelling with pride due to having waged the fight so well, to the degree that Caedus asserts himself as perhaps the best swordsman there ever had been.

But, despite this, Caedus believes he can only defeat Saba after a difficult fight.

Legacy of the Force: Fury wrote:Jacen could defeat his mother or Ben without trouble; Saba, with difficulty.

Though Jacen's opinions of his powers aren't misplaced... - Karen Traviss (Tracing Bloodlines) wrote:How does a clever, morally aware man go down the path that Jacen does? By self-delusion and self- justification. Jacen already has a high opinion of his powers and judgment, and that’s not misplaced: the man is good at his work.


Even if they were, that has no bearing on the comparison between Luke and Saba. If Jacen does overrate himself, then the problem would stem from Jacen being incorrect on the level he is placing himself at, not the level he is placing Luke and Saba


Here are the main points--

A) Saba has Force senses beyond mid-NJO Luke
B) Saba is stronger than Kyle Katarn and Kyp Durron, resulting in her being the likely choice for best NJO Councillor
C) Saba is evenly matched Welk, someone who can no-sell DN Luke's Force attacks
D) Saba would give Luke a difficult fight

Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Empty KING ADAS

December 12th 2022, 5:16 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbO_QfwdPL0lF6x6kf4AN4j4F1NiMDIXqo7KAxulR9wbG67WQSFpDsUVoZbYe7Fzgu_rM&usqp=CAU
So beginning this case, I feel the need to add a clarification: my intent is not to go over every single feat, statement and point of scaling in great detail, as that would require a blog for that explicit purpose to do properly. Rather its my intent to point out the weight of narrative in the favour of a character which often gets overlooked. As a final note I would like to add that there are many cases I did consider including (for example holocron scaling), but that ultimately I did not consider worthy bringing up for a top 15 case. Perhaps I will mention them another time in a respect thread.

In the Star Wars universe, few things give a greater claim to power than the title of “The Chosen One”. Although I will not make a claim of the crowd always being right, I do believe that almost everyone in the Star Wars community would agree that an Anakin with his full potential achieved would be by far the strongest mortal forceuser, and I do also believe that everyone would agree that this is the prevailing take of every source in the Star Wars saga. Although it would likely be a stretch to claim a point of equality with the Chosen One prophecy, the Sith do have their own version: The Sith’ari.

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King Adas is the only character in Star Wars confirmed to be Sith’ari, as per multiple sources. Let us first look at Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties (END):

END wrote:In fact, Adas was almost three hundred years old and had earned the title Sith'ari (meaning "the Lord" or "overlord") [...]

The title is explained to mean something akin to “the lord” or “the overlord”, but make not the mistake of assuming that this means that it simply implies that he is a literal lord of the sith people. As we can see in the previous paragraph, he had already been King for many years, and only “earned” the title of Sith’ari afterwards:

END wrote:Ruling nearly 3,000 years before the rise of the Galactic Republic, King Adas was a massive, regal being encased in majestic ebon warrior armor. Raised from his youth as a chosen being due to the charcoal pigment of his skin, Adas demonstrated great intelligence, fighting prowess, and a tremendous aptitude for Sith magic. With his alchemically forged battle-ax, Adas led the bloody unification of Korriban's disparate nations and became its undisputed world ruler. The Sith people came to believe that King Adas was immortal and that his reign would be eternal.

Now how does he earn the title of Sith’ari, besides by simply taking the title as he would the title of king? The Knights of the Old Republic Campaign guide claims its not a title he took or the people themselves; rather it is the force itself which “bestows” the name upon him, not too different from how the force bestowed the title of Chosen One upon Anakin:

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But all of this can still be dismissed as pure hype. While I would disagree with this assessment, because no other sith have been claimed to have been granted such a title by the force itself; particularly due to the explicit mention of “the Force” bestowing the title upon him, rather than “the darkside”, such as how the title of Dark Lord is bestowed upon Exar Kun by Ragnos and the other sith. The Force implies that its the Force itself, rather than malevolent energies, which grant him this title. Nonetheless I wish to show that even if that is dismissed, the power granted to him as Sith’ari is clear. And to do so I will show you the Book of the Sith.

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Here we first gain a clarification regarding the nature of the title “Sith’ari”. While its literal translation is “Overlord”, the more correct word for it as considered by the prophecy is the Sith’ari being a god. Furthermore, we get a clarification that Adas is the Sith’ari of the prophecy. We are presented with two options. One is that Adas is the only Sith’ari there ever will be, and so that the prophecy is already fulfilled: “[...] deem that the prophecy began and ended with Adas, [...]”. The second one is that there will be a new Sith’ari: “[...] many more await the Sith’ari’s return”. I am certain that most people would prefer the latter to be true, to discuss a possible Sith’ari in Revan, Vitiate, Bane, Sidious, or Krayt. However even if we agree that it is the latter option, what is also clear is that both presuppose that Adas was indeed the Sith’ari. The second option states that the Sith’ari will “return”, with Adas as the only confirmed Sith’ari, and the one specifically mentioned in the same sentence. As such no matter how you look at it, Adas is the Sith’ari of the prophecy, any other would be a “return”, so someone else that would have the same position, a spiritual successor, or perhaps even a reincarnation of sorts.

Being confirmed to be the Sith’ari is already a mighty enough claim on its own, but if you are not yet convinced that Adas deserves a spot in the top 15, even as the equivalent of the Chosen One, allow me to go into the details of the power of the Sith’ari. What I first want you to focus on is the first line of the prophecy:

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The first line states that the Sith’ari is without limit. It would be nonsensical to speak of omnipotence of any kind, yet it may well speak of the kind of power demonstrated for example by Anakin Skywalker when he landed the Invisible Hand. The power to perform feats that should be impossible, that requires winning a battle of wills with the force itself. Again there are those which would find this kind of power unspecific, and thats fair. But we do have one point of reference for how powerful a Sith’ari could be:

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Darth Sidious points out that he doubts that Darth Bane could have been the Sith’ari, because he was “not free of restrictions”, which already implies that Bane is inferior to Adas. Yet more importantly, for opinions of the power of Bane varies greatly, is that Sidious himself does not consider himself powerful enough to be “free of limits”, stating that he grows “ever closer to unlimited power”. This puts Adas as the superior of Post-O66 Sidious;

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Furthermore, considering he only believes that he would be worthy of the title of Sith’ari should he gain “Unlimited power”, one could assume that only peak Sidious would even by his own standards be considered powerful enough to be considered the Sith’ari.

But while everyone agrees Sidious is very powerful, and most do tend to agree he is one of the strongest characters in the saga, there are also those that do not consider him a combative threat, or at least not one which properly can wield those powers to beat those inferior or comparable to him. Similar issues are brought up with the likes of Marka Ragnos, Nihilus, Valkorion and even at times Yoda. Let me assure you, this is not the case with Adas. First, lets simply look at how he is portrayed;

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Sith Swords are already stated to be weapons that most need two hands to wield, and only “the most mammoth of the Massassi” can handle onehanded. Massassi which on average are some of the greatest warriors of Star Wars.

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Yet Adas dual-wields two battleaxes, something only few can even swing, much less use effectively. In general we also have descriptions showing his great fighting prowess, but also his intelligence and aptitude for sith magic, making him good at pretty much everything important for a combatant. Sadly, as you all know, we have nothing actually showing him in action. Yet we do know of his greatest feat; besting the Infinite Empire. But why is this such a monumental feat? For this I wish to refer to the Dawn of the Jedi. In it, the Je’daii too face the Infinite Empire, which gives us a great point of comparison. Yet if the Je’daii managed to best an invasion, doesn’t that diminish Adas’ feat? It does not, and I will show why it only serves to show just what a monumental feat he performed.

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Its repeatedly noted that without the forcesabers, the Je’daii would have had no hopes of even fighting the Rakata. And this makes sense, because as we saw in the start of the comics, the force-enchanced blades of the Je’daii were cut like butter by the forcesabers:

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The fact that Xesh gave them these weapons already gave a significant advantage to the Je’daii, and one that Adas did not have. The only technology the sith got from the Rakata were holocrons, which in a combative context would have been useless for them. Meaning that the sith had to face the Infinite Empire in a manner that would have left the Je’daii chanceless. But this is not all. Whereas Adas fought the Infinite Empire at their peak, the Je’daii were explicitly fighting them at a time where the Rakata were already losing their connection to their force, severely weakening their entire army:

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Furthermore, whereas the Sith took the technology of space-travel from the Rakata, the Je’daii already had fully developed ships, as well as a multi-planet alliance that included nonforceusing soldiers with ranged and melee weaponry, and long-range communications:

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The Je’daii forces were on relatively even terms in many ways with the Rakata, and even though the latter was losing their connection to the force, they still didn’t even win their war. They activated ancient Kwa technology, which destroyed great parts of the Rakatan fleet, and the leader of the Rakata was defeated by Xesh, a former warrior of the Infinite Empire, which caused the rest of the fleet to flee, resulting in its destruction from fleets from other planets:

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Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Image

In other words, to counter a weakened force of the Infinite Empire, the Je’daii needed forcesabers, multiple planets of ships and soldiers, Kwa superweapons, a traitor from the Infinite Empire, and the Rakatan forces losing morale. Meanwhile Adas and his sith were a primitive civilization which were entirely limited to axes, swords and other regular weaponry, yet they achieved the same results, which by every source was credited to Adas’ own performance, one even implying he might have been old and post-prime:

END wrote:But the Rakata soon showed their true colors and tried to conquer the Sith people. But even at that ripe age, the Sith King refused to go quietly and introduced the invaders to his oversized axe and the unconquerable will of his people.

Of Soa and the Kings of Korriban
Soa is an odd addition to the lore, especially since we know next to nothing about what he actually did in it. However we do know four major things: 1. His power. Many debaters consider him one of the strongest characters in SWTOR, some even ranking him in the Top 15:

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Top 15 Tourney Character Cases Image

2. He once considered Korriban his “crown” of a thousand worlds. 3. He had a council of sith purebloods serving him, so-called “Betrayers of Adas”. 4. He was trapped on Belsavis.

Now what do all these things mean for his part in the ancient history of Star Wars? 1 is simply a matter of his standing to scale Adas from. However 3 means that he lived around the time of Adas, and that the sith that served him actually betrayed the Sith’ari. Adding to the fact that per 2 he was in a position to consider Korriban his, we have two options:

I. He was the Rakata that tried to invade Korriban under Adas’ rule. The betrayers were sith that tried to help Soa take control. Soa could have already had enough influence on Korriban for him to arrogantly (and we know he’s arrogant) claim the world as his, only to then be repelled from Korriban. This would also explain 4, having been chased off from Korriban he was soon after trapped on Belsavis.

II. The “betrayers” were sith that during the invasion of the Rakata sold out Adas, maybe even caused his death in the end. Soa then arrived on Korriban afterwards, claiming it as his after the death of Adas, added the betrayers as his own council, and then eventually left for unknown reasons.

Obviously, I. looks the most favourable to Adas, since that means he must have bested Soa to chase him away, meaning that anyone who put Soa on their list must put Adas above. I would also say that its the most likely explanation, since it also explains 4. However I will also make an argument for why II. is favourable to Adas as well. According to END, there was no proper successor for Adas until the Jedi Exiles, wars raging on in the planet to the point where it was practically destroyed since noone was able to unify them:

END wrote:Without Adas' unifying influence, wars once again raged for rule of the Sith people, with the reigning combatants arrogantly claiming the title of Sith'ari, and eventually forcing a relocation of the Sith capitol to the planet Ziost. Eventually, almost two-dozen millennia after Adas' death, a proper successor to Adas seemed to come at last.

This of course puts Adas above other sith pureblood kings like Graush, but it would also put Soa below both Adas and the Jedi Exiles, as he would be rivaled by those kind of lesser kings and not be a true ruler of Korriban, making it a far worse option for him than I.

As I said in the beginning, there were many points I considered making, but ultimately felt like would derail the case. This isn’t a respect thread where I go through every possible point of hype, this is a case to put him in the big leagues. While I can not force any opinions, I do believe that as the Sith’ari, definitive superior of Bane and ROTS Sidious, possible equal or superior of prime Sidious, probable/definitive superior of Soa, and someone that vastly outperformed the Je’daii order, Adas deserves nothing less than to be in the top 15.

And for those that fear putting random and esoteric characters in their lists, this should not apply here! Adas is oldest named character in the entire setting that isn't an entity, for 103300 years he was the only being that had ruled over the sith as a sole and absolute ruler, he is the only confirmed Sith'ari, and under his leadership, Korriban was the only planet in the galaxy to resist the Infinite Empire besides the Je'daii order with the backing of a multi-planet alliance and Kwa technology!

Respect the Sith'ari!
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