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KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Three
Level Three

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Empty SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS)

Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:03 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Revanv11

The debate follows all formal and informal policies of Lucas Licensing as of September 2012, including the internal continuity rankings of the Holocron. The rules include but are not limited to, specific parts of the following: https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t4404-star-wars-vs-debating-in-2022-canon-and-considerations

Revan and Darth Krayt will fight in-character, with their morals on, and start diagonal from each other at 424 meters away in an indestructible 300 meters by 300 meter arena in the grass plains of Lothal. Their abilities are as of The Old Republic - Shadow of Revan and Legacy—War respectively.

There will be three main posts per side in addition to a concluding post from each and an allotted time interval of one month between posts. No character limits will be enforced.
TheAce
TheAce

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Empty Re: SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS)

Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:31 am
Now, this is sth worth hyping for.
Let's see how good is Reborn Swords, with his massive character advantage.
ILS
ILS

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Empty Re: SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS)

Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:10 am
May the best man win.
LookingGlassDarkly
LookingGlassDarkly

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Empty Re: SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS)

Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:15 am
Likewise, if it ever counts.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Empty Re: SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS)

Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:55 pm
Message reputation : 100% (3 votes)
It seems ILS's mere presence was enough to dominate KOB.

_________________
SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Sheev_sig_3
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Three
Level Three

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Empty Re: SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS)

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:21 am
Master Azronger wrote:It seems ILS's mere presence was enough to dominate KOB.

when i read u commented i low key didnt know who u were for a good second there
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Empty Re: SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS)

Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:53 pm
I wonder if SOR KOB is truly more powerful than his Foundry iteration that got soloed by ILS's passive aura, or if he's an even more of a crazed lunatic.

[hideedit]

_________________
SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Sheev_sig_3
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Three
Level Three

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Empty Re: SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS)

Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:29 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)

Intro


“There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped”

Revan’s case is relatively simple; he is either better than or not discernibly worse than Krayt in pretty much every conceivable factor that we consider when deciding fight outcomes, making Revan the more likely victor in this matchup. I’ll try to go into each as this debate unfolds, but for now I’ll open with what is generally accepted to be the most important factor of all, force power.

The Wrath of Darth Revan


There are multiple ways a person could go about showing the vast difference between Revan’s power and Krayt’s, but I think the cleanest way to start is to introduce you to a much earlier Revan than the one I am currently using for the debate; Darth Revan. Darth Revan is, to put it mildly, much, much weaker than Revan as of SOR, so if it's true that he possesses even loose comparability with Krayt, then SOR Revan’s superiority becomes all but certain. Indeed, the amount of evidence that can be brought to bear for proving such a theory is considerable. Saga’s various source books and their associated web enhancement articles, Galactic Files, and WOTC: Sith Showdown, all reveal that Darth Revan is either superior to, or equal to Darth Krayt in force power. You can then integrate various other statements from across the EU to extend the number of connections that can be made between Darth Revan and Krayt. A list* of said connections are as follows:

*For connections that rely on stat values, I will be assuming you can make the inference that X > Y if X’s stat value is larger than Y’s. Explaining that for every such instance would be super tedious and unnecessary.

1. Darth Revan > Krayt  (Sith Showdown)
2. Darth Revan = Reborn Krayt  (Galactic Files)
3. Darth Revan > Darth Krayt (KOTOR x Legacy Campaign Guides)
4. Darth Revan > Darth Krayt (KOTOR Campaign Guide x Legacy Web Enhancement)
5. Darth Revan > Exar Kun > Darth Krayt  (KOTOR/Legacy Campaign Guides)
6. Darth revan > Exar Kun = Darth Krayt (KOTOR Campaign Guide x Legacy Web Enhancement)
7. Darth Revan = Darth Traya > Darth Krayt  (KOTOR/Legacy Campaign Guides)
8. Darth Revan = Darth Traya > Darth Krayt  (KOTOR Campaign Guide x Legacy Web Enhancement)
9. Darth Revan > Darth Traya > Darth Krayt (Revan Novel x KOTOR CG x Legacy CG)
10. Darth Revan > Darth Traya > Darth Krayt (Revan Novel x KOTOR CG x Legacy Web Enhancement)

Meetra Surik, Revan Novel wrote:It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him;
Revan’s command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever
met.

Wizards of the Coast: Sith Showdown wrote:The Star Wars universe has created some truly vile dark side villains. Have you ever wondered what would happen if the most powerful Sith Lords (Darth Sidious, Darth Caedus, and Darth Revan) duked it out for supremacy of the galaxy?

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown

Saga Stats wrote:
Darth Revan - UTF - 24
Exar Kun - UTF - 23
Darth Krayt(LCG) - UTF - 22
Darth Krayt(WE) - UTF - 23
Darth Traya - UTF - 24

You might have noticed that I reused some of the stat values I provided, and that might seem wrong to you. It might even seem like cheating, as though I’m taking one supremacy quote and treating it like 5 supremacy quotes. In reality, however, the way I’ve used the stats in my connections is not only absolutely consistent with how we have treated quotes in the past, it's also the only way we can use them without banning virtually all the evidence available to us. Consider the statement “Bob is more powerful than Joe". Implicit in that statement is the presupposition that Bob and Joe have some amount of some property called power. Bob has X amount of power, Joe has Y amount of power. In order to say that Bob is more powerful than Joe, you need to make a logical inference from their respective power values. This follows for any quote or comparison between two or more things, they’re all just logical inferences/connections between various properties. This is what I’m doing with stats, I’m taking two distinct values, the same in kind as the ones mentioned in my earlier analogy and making inferences between them. But how many inferences are you allowed to make from a stat, you might ask. Since a force power stat is just the property known as force power expressed as a number, to place a cap on the number of inferences you can make from the stat would be to place a cap on the property itself. What happens then? Well, assuming the cap is 1 inference to illustrate the point, if you were to use a quote in a debate saying Anakin is more powerful than Qui Gon, then you’d be barred from using any other quote with Anakin or Jinn’s respective force powers in it, since if you then cited a quote saying “Jinn is more powerful than Maul”,  you’ve now used Jinn’s force power value twice, once in comparison to Anakin’s, and twice in comparison to Maul. But what if you raise the cap? You can obviously draw the arbitrary line wherever you fancy, but as far as I can tell, there’s no way to logically justify why the cap would be 1 inference rather than some other amount. Historically, this community(ILS included) has never enforced some arbitrary cap on the allowed number of inferences you can draw from a piece of information. To argue that stats should be capped in such a manner would be in direct contradiction with how we have always used evidence in this hobby. Of course, ILS is free to try and break the status quo on this philosophy if we want to, but he’ll have to grasp at imaginary straws to argue for any arbitrary cap that doesn’t cause the scaling chains I’m sure he’s planning to use from imploding. I don’t expect him to, but I’ve overestimated people before, so who knows?

TLDR: My use of stats is totally consistent with how we use other evidence in this hobby.

Something else you might have noticed was that some of my connections don’t explicitly refer to Reborn Krayt. Some predate Legacy: War in OOU dating, and some seem to be in obvious reference to Vong Krayt. So what’s the deal, am I trying to sneak in information that doesn’t inform us about Reborn Krayt and peddle it as if it does? After all, we know Reborn Krayt is more powerful than Vong Krayt, so what relevance does evidence revealing Darth Revan > Vong Krayt have in this debate? Well, consider any feat comparison ever used in this hobby ever. You’ll notice that in every single one, we lack perfect knowledge of every variable/factor in play in the fight. We don’t know if Krayt is just a savant with force drain, making his infamous feat of force draining Abeloth non reflective of his general power. We don’t know if Anakin wasn’t used to Mustafar’s gravity, causing him to miss his mark when he jumped at Kenobi and got maimed. We don’t know if Luke couldn’t lift the X-Wing in ESB because he was imagining Leia naked and lost focus. There’s no sources commenting on these specific factors and how they affected the aforementioned feats. These might seem like absurd examples, we can say that the likelihood something is true goes down the more times said something fails to appear in a source, and can almost certainly dismiss the Luke example I gave on this basis, but a truth has still been revealed. When we lack perfect knowledge in something, we draw conclusions from the information that we do know. Imagine we know Bob was stronger than Joe in 2019, and imagine we also know both Bob and Joe get stronger than they were by some unknown margin by 2020. We cannot know for certain that Bob is still stronger as of 2020, but if you were forced to bet you would bet on Bob because the last known reference point between the two put him above. The same idea applies in this debate. If its true that Darth Revan > vong Krayt is the last known reference point between the two characters after which both grow by incomparable margins, then its necessarily true that SOR Revan > Reborn Krayt is more likely than Reborn Krayt > SOR Revan. And aside from their Galactic stat entries(which say Darth Revan = Reborn Krayt), it is true that Vong Krayt and Darth Revan are the latest iterations of their characters that connect to each other, in decisive favor of Revan. So SOR Revan > (this will be elaborated on momentarily) > Darth Revan >/= Darth Krayt is simply the most likely conclusion to be drawn from the evidence.

TLDR: Being more powerful than Vong Krayt can be used as evidence against Reborn Krayt.

I’ve just given you a laundry list of connections indicating Darth Revan is with or above Reborn Krayt in force power, and have justified the logical validity of said connections. What now? Now, I explain the difference between Darth Revan and SOR Revan.

SWTOR UNCHAINED


After Revan defeats Darth Malak on the Star Forge, he is said to be more powerful than he ever was as Dark Lord of the Sith. At that point in time, Revan had not fully recovered all his memories as Dark Lord, something that would change later on the planet Dromund Kaas in the Revan Novel. Revan would have most likely become more powerful from this event given a similar experience that the Hero of Tython would later have. Having once been briefly trained as a sith during the interim between Act 2 and 3 of SWTOR, the Hero would repress his memories of this experience after being freed from the Emperor’s mental domination. When given the option to restore those repressed memories in SOR, the Hero describes said memories as “power” that he wants to reclaim. Characters receiving power boosts when they recover lost memories(given that the memories include force knowledge) is obvious when you consider that knowledge of the force is seen as a catalyst for growth. The Hero recovers his lost sith training/knowledge and grows from it. The same should follow for Novel Revan.

Darth Malak, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"You are stronger than I thought; stronger than you ever were during your reign as the Dark Lord. I did not think that was possible."

Orgus Din, Shadow of Revan wrote:“You were under his control. His darkness soaked through to your spirit. When we freed you you pushed the memories of his training down deep”

The Hero of Tython, Shadow of Revan wrote:"My memories of that time are power. That power is my right and my weapon. I claim it."

Star Wars: Revan wrote:He unwrapped the cloth to reveal the masked helmet he had worn during his
campaigns against the Mandalorians and the Republic. In an instant, all his lost
memories came flooding back to him.

Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan

After recovering his lost memories, Revan weighs his odds against Vitiate in combat, believing that he “probably” wouldn’t win alone, but thinks he has a “real shot” at victory with the aid of Meetra Surik and Lord Scourge. Revan’s estimation of their odds is more or less accurate, as during their battle with Vitiate, Scourge receives a vision showing him a “million possible futures” of the outcome of the battle. In some, the group wins, in others Vitiate wins, the margin being close enough that Scourge is unable to discern which outcome is most likely. The team, however, would go on to lose as Scourge would betray Revan and Meetra, as his vision also included another person striking Vitiate down, leading Scourge to believe that the team was not destined to win that day. Scourge would then feign loyalty to Vitiate as he awaited the unknown champion he saw in his vision to appear.


Revan, Star Wars: Revan wrote:In their last meeting he had overwhelmed Revan completely; it wasn’t even
fair to call it a battle. Revan had grown since then. He was far more powerful
now, but was he a match for the Emperor?
Alone, probably not. With the combined strength of Meetra, Scourge, and
even T3, however, he believed they stood a real chance of victory.

Star Wars: Revan wrote:The Force washed over him in a wave, and a million possible futures flickered
through his mind simultaneously. In some the Emperor was no more; in others
he had transformed the entire galaxy into an empty wasteland. He saw both
Revan’s triumph and defeat in the throne room; he saw variations of his own life
and death played out over and over in every conceivable way, shape, and form.
He had to choose, but there was no way to know which was the most likely
outcome, or what actions of his would lead to which results. Revan had said
visions could guide the Jedi, but for Scourge they brought nothing but confusion.
The moment passed and the universe began to move again, though everything
seemed to be happening in slow motion. Revan and Meetra stepped forward,
ready to initiate the final confrontation. Scourge knew he had to act now; he had
to make his choice.
In a sudden moment of clarity he saw the Emperor lying defeated at the feet of
a powerful Jedi ... but that Jedi was neither Revan nor Meetra. And the Sith
Lord knew what he had to do.

Novel Vitiate >/~ Novel Revan + Novel Lord Scourge + Meetra Surik > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan

Fast forward to SWTOR, Lord Scourge has had 300 years to grow presumably much more powerful and look for potential weaknesses that could be exploited against Vitiate. He has found the champion from his vision, the Hero of Tython. However, despite being presumably much more powerful than he was when he allied with Revan, and despite, receiving the information that Vitiate has been recently weakened, he believes that neither he, nor anyone else, can aid the Hero in his battle against Vitiate in the Act 3 Finale, believing that "no one else can resist [The Emperor's] direct influence". In other words, Vitiate, between the Revan Novel and SWTOR, has grown so much that Scourge can no longer provide beneficial assistance against Vitiate in combat, despite being presumably much more powerful than he was in the novel. The Hero would go on to defeat Vitiate in single combat, in decisive fashion, as the Emperor is noted to be “no match” for the Hero. So we have the Act 3 Hero decisively defeating a Vitiate who is much more powerful than the Vitiate in the Revan novel who can “probably” defeat Novel Revan, who is more powerful than KOTOR Revan, who is more powerful than Darth Revan.

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown

Act 3 HoT >> Act 3 Vitiate >> Novel Vitiate >/~ Novel Revan + Novel Scourge + Meetra Surik > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan

This is not the only way to scale the Act 3 Hero far beyond Darth Revan.

After being freed from Vitiate’s imprisonment in Act 2, Revan reveals to the Hero that Vitiate was more powerful than he expected, that he “didn’t understand his true power”. The Hero would presumably be able to sense the strength of Revan’s spirit and would then form a conception of Vitiate’s power that is > the power he senses from Revan. Revan also tells the Hero that he would report to the Jedi Council and reveal “everything” he learned of the Emperor. The Emperor’s power is obviously the most significant thing about Vitiate, so we can also safely presume that Revan gave the council a (from his perspective) accurate assessment of Vitiate’s power. Of course, the council would also be able to sense Revan’s power and be able to form a conception of Vitiate that is > Revan. in the super unlikely event Revan didn’t cover Vitiate’s power level. So the Act 2 Hero and Jedi Council should both have a conception of Vitiate that, either through sensing Revan’s power level and/or being told how powerful Vitiate is by Revan, is beyond Revan’s prior conception of Vitiate. And if we recall, Revan’s prior conception of Vitiate was that he “probably” couldn’t beat him alone.

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown

Despite having this information, the Jedi Council believes that the EoAct 2 Hero, Warren Sedoru, Tol Braga, and Leeha Narezz are capable of defeating their conception of Vitiate, as they plan on capturing him and bringing him back to Tython, by force if necessary. The Hero obviously also thinks the team is capable of beating his conception of Vitiate as well, as he doesn’t object to the plan. This confidence is further displayed when Tol Braga tells Vitiate and Lord Scourge that they cannot stand before the entire strike team. They couldn’t have been more wrong, losing so badly the Hero thinks it “wasn’t even a fight”, with it being noted Braga “grossly underestimated” the Emperor’s power.

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown

SWTOR Codex wrote:The Fall of Tol Braga (Knight)
A one-time respected member of the Jedi Council and its most
fervent advocate for peace, Master Tol Braga now willingly serves
the Sith Emperor. His confrontation with that foe showed him the
nature of true evil and revealed a powerful force he had grossly
underestimated
. Master Braga’s failure to redeem the Emperor broke
his spirit. With his pride and faith shattered, he succumbed to
nihilistic despair.

Later, during the plan to attack Vitiate while he’s weakened in Act 3, The Hero is faced with the proposition of giving Vitiate the chance to recover his lost power, to which he confidently says “let him prepare all he wants” and that “Ready or not, I’ll destroy him”. The Hero does not fear a repeat of the act 2 finale, suggesting the Hero thinks he can defeat his conception of Act 2 Vitiate. A conception that stomps his prior conception of Act 2 Vitiate which is beyond Novel Revan’s conception of Vitiate, which is beyond Novel Revan, who is beyond KOTOR Revan, who is beyond Darth Revan.

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown

We now have 2 different lines of scaling connecting the Act 3 Hero and Darth Revan, and when conjoined with the connections putting Darth Revan above/near Darth Krayt, can be summarized as follows:

Act 3 HoT >> Act 3 Vitiate >> Novel Vitiate >/~ Novel Revan + Novel Scourge + Meetra Surik > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan >/~ Darth Krayt

Act 3 HoT > Act 3 HoT’s conception of Act 2 Vitiate >>> Act 2 HoT + Tol Braga + Warren Sedoru + Leeha Narezz > The Act 2(pre Act 2 finale) Jedi Council’s/HoT’s perception of Vitiate = Act 2 Revan’s perception of Vitiate > Novel Revan’s perception of Vitiate > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan >/~ Darth Krayt


Shadow of Revan


Later, during the events of SOR, the Hero recovers his memories of his sith training, which, as I noted earlier, most likely provided him a power boost:

SOR HoT > Act 3 HoT

After the Hero recovers his lost memories, he travels to Yavin IV, where he would fight Revan twice, first at the Temple of Sacrifice, and later at the Forgotten Terrace. At the Temple of Sacrifice, the Hero would manage to “barely” drive Revan back, but only with the aid of a "large strike team of elite heroes" and only after Revan suffers two injuries from the Machine Core, once when he tries to channel its energy to destroy all of his enemies within a 1km radius, only for it's "immense energy" to backlash inside of him upon being attacked by the Hero and the strike team. Revan would also suffer from the Machine Core, a device Revan was going to use to drain all life on Yavin IV to resurrect Vitiate, “violently stripping” away his life force. On top of that, Spirit Revan would “resurrect” those who fell in battle, and just generally doing “all that [he] can” to help the team prevail over SOR Revan, believing that the Hero “can’t do it on [his] own”.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - Shadow of Revan wrote:Boon of the Spirit. Target has been recently resurrected by an outside force.

Spirit, Star Wars The Old Republic - Shadow Revan wrote:"I am with you. Be strong . . . I am doing all that I can. I only hope this will be enough . . . Brace yourself . . . Do not let him win."

The Hero of Tython, Shadow of Revan wrote:"Revan['s Spirit] wants me to succeed, but claims I can't do it on my own."

Star Wars: The Old Republic - Shadow of Revan wrote:Through masterful control of the Force, Revan has created a Force resonance with The Machine's core, and is channeling its power into an immense attack. Upon successful completion, [Revan] deals massive damage to enemies within 1km. Dealing sufficient damage will break this channel.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - Shadow of Revan wrote:[Revan has] suffered a powerful backlash while channeling an immense amount of Force energy.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - Shadow of Revan wrote:The Machine Core has been rendered critically unstable. It is now a violent maelstrom of twisted Force essence, indiscriminately stripping the life force from everything in the vicinity.

SoR Revan- Shadow of Revan wrote:"You barely managed to drive me away last time. What makes you think you can survive against me?"

So, with a respawning elite strike team as back up, the Hero was barely able to drive back a SOR Revan who had suffered from 2 extremely powerful attacks from the Machine Core. One would imagine that the Hero would do very poorly if he had to face Revan alone. And as it so happens, we know exactly what happens if the Hero tries to face Revan alone:



As seen in the video above, when attempting to fight Revan by himself at the Temple of Sacrifice, he gets one shotted by Revan. I imagine some of you are thinking, “isn’t that just gameplay?”. And while it is gameplay, it and all other power level information is S-Canon according to the LFL/CC meta which this debate is bound to. So the Hero getting one shotted here is tantamount to a quote saying “Revan one shotted the Hero of Tython like the little bitch he was”.

Revan’s superiority over the SOR HoT is further demonstrated by how it requires him alongside Darth Marr, Satele Shan, Lana Beniko, Shae Vizla, Theron Shan, and Jakarro, with an XS Stock Light Freighter providing air support in the form of strafing runs to defeat Revan after a difficult duel. Satele Shan in particular provides enormous aid, as she uses Battle Meditation on the strike team, “greatly increas[ing], the combat effectiveness of the team. More specifically the BM is noted to double a variety of attributes, ranging from “endurance”, “force regen”, to “max force” Obviously the Hero and the rest of the strike team(for those applicable) having, among other things, their force reserves literally doubled in capacity constitutes an enormous boost.

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Xr0oft10

SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Unknown



I have provided 3 different comparisons between SOR Revan and the SOR Hero, and all convey an enormous difference in power between the two, whether it be needing extraordinary aid and/or debilitating circumstances on Revan’s part to manage to “barely” scrape out a win, or the Hero getting literally one shotted if he tries to face Revan alone. They can be summarized as follows, when conjoined with our chains connecting the Act 3 Hero and Darth Revan:


1. SOR Revan > SOR Revan after the Machine core backlashes inside of him + having his life force stripped by the machine core ~< SoR HoT + an elite strike team + Spirit Revan “barely” defeating him >>> SoR HoT > Act 3 HoT >> Act 3 Vitiate >> Novel Vitiate >/~ Novel Revan + Novel Scourge + Meetra Surik  > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan >/~ Darth Krayt


2. SOR Revan > SOR Revan after the Machine core backlashes inside of him + having his life force stripped by the machine core ~< SoR HoT + an elite strike team + Spirit Revan “barely” defeating him >>> SoR HoT > Act 3 HoT > Act 3 HoT’s conception of Act 2 Vitiate > Act 2 HoT + Tol Braga + Warren Sedoru + Leeha Narezz > The Act 2(pre Act 2 finale) Jedi Council’s/HoT’s perception of Vitiate = Act 2 Revan’s perception of Vitiate > Novel Revan’s perception of Vitiate > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan >/~ Darth Krayt


3. SOR Revan < SoR HoT + Darth Marr + Shae Vizla + Theron Shan + Jakkaro + air support from light freighters all having their combat effectiveness “greatly increased” by Satele Shan’s BM >>> SOR HoT > Act 3 HoT >> Act 3 Vitiate >> Novel Vitiate >/~ Novel Revan + Novel Scourge + Meetra Surik  > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan >/~ Darth Krayt


4. SOR Revan < SoR HoT + Darth Marr + Shae Vizla + Theron Shan + Jakkaro + air support from light freighters all having their combat effectiveness “greatly increased” by Satele Shan’s BM >>> SoR HoT > Act 3 HoT > Act 3 HoT’s conception of Act 2 Vitiate > Act 2 HoT + Tol Braga + Warren Sedoru + Leeha Narezz > The Act 2(pre Act 2 finale) Jedi Council’s/HoT’s perception of Vitiate = Act 2 Revan’s perception of Vitiate > Novel Revan’s perception of Vitiate > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan >/~ Darth Krayt

5. SOR Revan one shotting the SOR HoT >>>> SOR HoT > Act 3 HoT >> Act 3 Vitiate >> Novel Vitiate >/~ Novel Revan + Novel Scourge + Meetra Surik  > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan >/~ Darth Krayt

6. SOR Revan one shotting the SOR HoT >>>> SoR HoT > Act 3 HoT > Act 3 HoT’s conception of Act 2 Vitiate > Act 2 HoT + Tol Braga + Warren Sedoru + Leeha Narezz > The Act 2(pre Act 2 finale) Jedi Council’s/HoT’s perception of Vitiate = Act 2 Revan’s perception of Vitiate > Novel Revan’s perception of Vitiate > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > Darth Revan >/~ Darth Krayt

Note the above chains are extremely simplified in how they connect to Darth Krayt,  I won’t list every single one, but if you calculate the number of chains that can be made between the 6 different ways to connect SOR Revan and Darth Revan with the 10  connections between Darth Revan and Darth Krayt that I presented, you end up with 60 distinct connections(recall my talk about the number of distinct logical inferences that can we can draw earlier in the post) between SOR Revan and Darth Krayt. A case having modularity of this degree is, to my knowledge, basically unprecedented. ILS could manage to fully debunk half of my SOR Revan->Darth Revan chains and my case would still have more indicators supporting it than virtually any SS post ever written.

To simplify this so its easier to grasp, the power gap between SOR Revan and Darth Krayt is so enormous that SOR Revan can one shot someone who can defeat someone more powerful than Darth Krayt so badly it wouldn’t even be called a fight. The gap is so large that me saying the words “SOR Revan one shots Krayt” fails to convey the full depth of the difference in power between them. And this is supported by literally dozens of angles. So while I plan on diving into other factors beyond force power, like, to briefly tease, Revan's insane durability, in my later posts, I see no reason why this fight should develop into a state where these other factors would have a chance to come into play. Revan snaps his fingers and Krayt ceases to exist. Fight over.
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SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS) Empty Re: SS - Revan (KingofBlades) vs Darth Krayt (ILS)

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