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blackymarket
blackymarket

Sedriss Runs the Windu Gauntlet  Empty Sedriss Runs the Windu Gauntlet

December 21st 2020, 12:24 pm
1. TPM Mace
2. Shatterpoint Mace
3. SoD Mace
4. Dark Rendevous Mace
4. ROTS Mace
Primarch
Primarch

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December 21st 2020, 12:38 pm
Shitdriss dies at 1
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

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December 21st 2020, 12:42 pm
KingKopecz wrote:Shitdriss dies at 1
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

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December 21st 2020, 12:47 pm
Takes all at once
Vaelias
Vaelias

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December 21st 2020, 1:33 pm
clears
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

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December 21st 2020, 5:28 pm
Yes, sub-Vader Sedriss beats RotS Mace, got it Sedriss Runs the Windu Gauntlet  1289255181
Vaelias
Vaelias

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December 21st 2020, 5:31 pm
@Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Yes, sub-Vader Sedriss beats RotS Mace, got it Sedriss Runs the Windu Gauntlet  1289255181

he isn't sub Vader by Dark Empire when he stalemates DE Luke who is > Yoda
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

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December 21st 2020, 6:52 pm
@Vaelias wrote:
@Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Yes, sub-Vader Sedriss beats RotS Mace, got it Sedriss Runs the Windu Gauntlet  1289255181

he isn't sub Vader by Dark Empire when he stalemates DE Luke who is > Yoda

...That just lowers Luke.
TenebrousWay
TenebrousWay

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December 21st 2020, 7:02 pm
Sedriss was one-shotted by a force push from Luke so hard that he decided to commit suicide after that.
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level Two
Level Two

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December 21st 2020, 7:52 pm
The DE comic is extremely abridged. In the audio play Sedriss and Luke have an extended back and forth and statements imply Sedriss could have won if there was no interference

It's entirely possible that Sedriss' sub Vader statement applies to him before Palps empowered him. Either that or we discard the DE Luke > Yoda statement. Which to be fair was made at an OOU time where Yoda had never faced Sidious.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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December 21st 2020, 9:11 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:
@Vaelias wrote:
@Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Yes, sub-Vader Sedriss beats RotS Mace, got it Sedriss Runs the Windu Gauntlet  1289255181

he isn't sub Vader by Dark Empire when he stalemates DE Luke who is > Yoda

...That just lowers Luke.

oh yeh Luke that contends with DE Sidious and beats him lol
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level Two
Level Two

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December 21st 2020, 9:15 pm
Luke only lasted against DE Sids because Leia unlocked his potential. A lot of people attempt to downplay this by saying it was "rudimentary" but this is ultimately an IU opinion of a second hand account. It's stated in the narration that Leia was unlocking more and more of Luke's power as time went on, and again, the DE comic is extremely abridged with some 20 minute cuts between panels. So the idea Luke "stomped" Palps even then is suspect. In fact going by the audio drama their fight was around 30 seconds with Luke's power increasing all the while, which by the standards of saber duels is fairly prolonged.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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December 21st 2020, 9:19 pm
@HeartoftheForce wrote:Luke only lasted against DE Sids because Leia unlocked his potential. A lot of people attempt to downplay this by saying it was "rudimentary" but this is ultimately an IU opinion of a second hand account. It's stated in the narration that Leia was unlocking more and more of Luke's power as time went on, and again, the DE comic is extremely abridged with some 20 minute cuts between panels. So the idea Luke "stomped" Palps even then is suspect.

i agree im in complete agreement that Sheev is beyond Luke at this point but recall that Sheev says that Luke is his " Greatest Foe" that would put him above Yoda, but even then his showing against sheev was still much better than Yodas performance against Sheev lol
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level Two
Level Two

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December 21st 2020, 9:23 pm
Sheev never says that. It's in a DE supplementary IIRC. Even then "greatest foe" is rather ambiguous considering the damage Luke has inflicted to the Empire and turning Vader which led to Palps "death".
For instance in current canon Thrawn has a statement stating he's the "greatest foe" the Rebellion faced, despite them having faced Vader before. Now I highly doubt that quote is meant to be taken as "Thawn would wallop Vader in a fight". And honestly I don't think this one is either.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

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December 22nd 2020, 9:30 am
i agree im in complete agreement that Sheev is beyond Luke at this point but recall that Sheev says that Luke is his " Greatest Foe" that would put him above Yoda,

As Grey said: "greatest foe" more than likely refers to the person who's interfered with his plans more. Yoda tried to kill him, and failed. Luke redeemed his father, caused his death, caused the collapse of the Empire, and destroyed the Death Star. That's a more comprehensive resume than anything Yoda did.

but even then his showing against sheev was still much better than Yodas performance against Sheev lol

Again, that was a result of Leia amping Luke to the point that she was unlocking his full potential. It's not an indicator of baseline DE Luke.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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December 23rd 2020, 9:36 am
@BreakofDawn wrote:
i agree im in complete agreement that Sheev is beyond Luke at this point but recall that Sheev says that Luke is his " Greatest Foe" that would put him above Yoda,

As Grey said: "greatest foe" more than likely refers to the person who's interfered with his plans more. Yoda tried to kill him, and failed. Luke redeemed his father, caused his death, caused the collapse of the Empire, and destroyed the Death Star. That's a more comprehensive resume than anything Yoda did.

but even then his showing against sheev was still much better than Yodas performance against Sheev lol

Again, that was a result of Leia amping Luke to the point that she was unlocking his full potential. It's not an indicator of baseline DE Luke.

there's no evidence that it unlocked his full potential, im in agreement that her battle med was effective but his amp definitely wouldn't equate for the huge power gap of growth between ROTS Sidious and DE Sidious, so I don't c why DE Luke wouldn't be above Yoda
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

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December 23rd 2020, 10:02 am
there's no evidence that it unlocked his full potential,

It's heavily implied:

Sedriss Runs the Windu Gauntlet  Rco02512
Sedriss Runs the Windu Gauntlet  Rco02912


Throughout the fight, Leia had been unlocking "unexpected resources" within Luke, which continued on after the fight.


im in agreement that her battle med was effective but his amp definitely wouldn't equate for the huge power gap of growth between ROTS Sidious and DE Sidious,

Even assuming that it wasn't Luke having more and more and more of his potential unlocked by the second, why wouldn't her BM create a huge power amp? You said yourself it was effective, and given the bond between Luke and Leia such a boost and connection/harmony would logically only be even stronger.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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December 23rd 2020, 10:59 am
those are two different occasions though, that is when Luke and Leia joined in Oneness not when Luke was dueling Palpatine amped by Leias battle med
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

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December 23rd 2020, 11:01 am
@Vaelias wrote:those are two different occasions though, that is when Luke and Leia joined in Oneness not when Luke was dueling Palpatine amped by Leias battle med

One is describing how Leia "continues" to unlock those resources, indicating that she's been doing it for some time, now. The other clarifies that it's Luke, not Luke and Leia, who's experiencing these new "resources". It's a separate page that clarifies Luke and Leia's Oneness, not this particular endnote.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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December 23rd 2020, 11:14 am
@BreakofDawn wrote:
@Vaelias wrote:those are two different occasions though, that is when Luke and Leia joined in Oneness not when Luke was dueling Palpatine amped by Leias battle med

One is describing how Leia "continues" to unlock those resources, indicating that she's been doing it for some time, now. The other clarifies that it's Luke, not Luke and Leia, who's experiencing these new "resources". It's a separate page that clarifies Luke and Leia's Oneness, not this particular endnote.

Ahhh i c, good point, however i dont think that Luke would be too much weaker than Yoda based on this alone, he's 6 years older than ROTS Anakin at this point who was rough equals with Yoda, hes been to the darkside and learned a lot there he's come a long was since being Vader's equal in ROTJ, and regardless of his amps his performance against DE Sheev is still very impressive, especially since he dispatched him quite quickly, not to mention some damn impressive feats
Shimrra
Shimrra

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December 23rd 2020, 5:13 pm
Clears
TenebrousWay
TenebrousWay

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December 23rd 2020, 8:24 pm
@HeartoftheForce wrote:The DE comic is extremely abridged. In the audio play Sedriss and Luke have an extended back and forth and statements imply Sedriss could have won if there was no interference

It's entirely possible that Sedriss' sub Vader statement applies to him before Palps empowered him. Either that or we discard the DE Luke > Yoda statement. Which to be fair was made at an OOU time where Yoda had never faced Sidious.

Doesn't he lose the same way in the audiobook? I had the audiobook on my computer a few years ago, if I recall correctly, it's basically the same thing - Sedriss is one-shotted by a force push after dueling Luke for a while. He manages to contend for some time but he's still one-shotted when Luke wants to do it. In the comics, it's also implied Luke didn't want to necessarily kill him, so it'd explain why he wasn't defeated outright.

There's also the quotes he's sub all of Sheev apprentices, which, even if we take into account his empowerment by Sidious, I don't think it'd necessarily changes that fact. Anyway, anyone who presents as a 'threat' to Luke post RotJ is difficult to gauge correctly.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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December 23rd 2020, 9:46 pm
@HeartoftheForce wrote:The DE comic is extremely abridged. In the audio play Sedriss and Luke have an extended back and forth and statements imply Sedriss could have won if there was no interference

It's entirely possible that Sedriss' sub Vader statement applies to him before Palps empowered him. Either that or we discard the DE Luke > Yoda statement. Which to be fair was made at an OOU time where Yoda had never faced Sidious.

I agree with a lot of this, but then there's also the line in JAT where Luke thinks Ben and Yoda could've beaten reborn Sheev if he could at his level of knowledge.
blackymarket
blackymarket

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December 24th 2020, 3:20 am
@TenebrousWay wrote:
@HeartoftheForce wrote:The DE comic is extremely abridged. In the audio play Sedriss and Luke have an extended back and forth and statements imply Sedriss could have won if there was no interference

It's entirely possible that Sedriss' sub Vader statement applies to him before Palps empowered him. Either that or we discard the DE Luke > Yoda statement. Which to be fair was made at an OOU time where Yoda had never faced Sidious.

Doesn't he lose the same way in the audiobook? I had the audiobook on my computer a few years ago, if I recall correctly, it's basically the same thing - Sedriss is one-shotted by a force push after dueling Luke for a while. He manages to contend for some time but he's still one-shotted when Luke wants to do it. In the comics, it's also implied Luke didn't want to necessarily kill him, so it'd explain why he wasn't defeated outright.

There's also the quotes he's sub all of Sheev apprentices, which, even if we take into account his empowerment by Sidious, I don't think it'd necessarily changes that fact. Anyway, anyone who presents as a 'threat' to Luke post RotJ is difficult to gauge correctly.

Are you referring to this quote?

"As leader of my Dark Side Adepts, Military Executor Sedriss has been the most loyal, and is commended for reviving me here on Byss. But for all his usefulness, Sedriss is only a moderate Force-sensitive, a capable errand boy but hardly the stuff of a Sith apprentice." (From: Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide To The Force)

I always thought that this was in reference to Sedriss' true force potential rather than skill
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
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December 29th 2020, 6:03 pm
@Vaelias wrote:
@Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Yes, sub-Vader Sedriss beats RotS Mace, got it Sedriss Runs the Windu Gauntlet  1289255181

he isn't sub Vader by Dark Empire when he stalemates DE Luke who is > Yoda

That did seem to somewhat be the case in the audiodrama, however that’s not even remotely close to how their fight was portrayed in the comic if I recall correctly. There definitely seems to be a disconnect between the two. In the event of said disconnect, I would generally assume that the comic takes precedent, especially considering it’s vastly more consistent with Sheev’s remarks regarding Sedriss not being a Sith apprentice-level force user, as well as the Dark Empire Handbook which states that he’s weaker than Vader. All of which doesn’t add up to him being a peer to a much more powerful iteration of Luke than the one that’s equal to/superior to Vader.

However, as Grey mentioned earlier, comic fights are generally very concise and don’t show the whole fight. So perhaps the two can coexist and we can look at the comic fight as a compressed and shortened version of the audiodrama fight? And also, as Grey brought up again, perhaps Sedriss’ sub-Vader comments are before he was empowered by Sheev? I would probably not be inclined to agree, or atleast with the former, but I would need to see the comic panels from their fight again, because I recall Luke dominating Sedriss pretty hard.
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