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KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 16th 2020, 10:36 am
^
Vaelias
Vaelias

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 16th 2020, 6:12 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Kun one shots
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 1:33 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Vaelias wrote:Kun one shots

This is ridiculous assumption.

Much like his brother, Thexan had much better developed defenses in comparison to any Jedi or Sith - in an era when both Orders had virtually peaked in across-the-board competence (this is established in the lore and The Outlander independently corroborates this part in one of his conversations). Thexan scale from so many Force-users including those who could LIFT big starships by themselves. The Outlander had to completely evolve just to match Arcann. This battle would be much different experience for Exar Kun as well.

Thexan, Arcann, and Vaylin - these are not ordinary beings but inherited energies of Valkorion.
The Fallen Knight
The Fallen Knight

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 1:48 am
I'd say Thexan. He is probably Arcann level. Even if Arcann is above, he is more or less close to Arcann. If we buy Malak's supremacy quote, Arcann scales MASSIVELY above Kun.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 10:03 am
Besides the trove of other problems with that quote, SWTOR:E states Malak is far < many of the ancient Sith who Kun is objectively beyond via the source material.
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 10:13 am
@LadyKulvax
Citation?
Trayus Marauder
Trayus Marauder

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 10:18 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Kun easily. Thexan has no feats or quotes that make him even remotely comparable to Kun.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 10:34 am
@KingKopecz wrote:@LadyKulvax
Citation?
Korriban, Star Wars the Old Republic: Encyclopedia wrote:Sith acolytes spill blood and prove their strength in the mausoleums of history's most powerful and legendary Sith Lords.
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 10:36 am
@LadyKulvax
What does that have to do with Malak?
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Suspect Hero | Level Four

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 10:36 am
Malak is one of the Sith Lords in history by this point, obviously.


Last edited by LadyKulvax on December 17th 2020, 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 10:39 am
Since when? The quote doesn’t even mention him.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 10:40 am
@KingKopecz wrote:Since when? The quote doesn’t even mention him.

The quote is an all-encompassing historical quote and the source goes on at length about Malak well beforehand. There's no reason he isn't included.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 11:05 am
On-topic:

Regardless of which physical incarnation this is. Kun's either so powerful that he could survive a salvo of light side energy from the combined power of tens of thousands of Jedi (TOTJ Prime) or he's more powerful than Luke Skywalker through to the Hand of Thrawn duology (Kyp host body in JA).

Kun stomps almost all of TOR.

KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 11:25 am
Well then Ancients > Malak > Kun Thexan vs Exar Kun 1019854026
The Fallen Knight
The Fallen Knight

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 11:32 am
Thexan vs Exar Kun 2864379292
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 11:36 am
It's an objective fact in source material that Kun is > all ancients bar maybe Ragnos. Other secondary sources make it overwhelmingly clear that Kun is the GOAT of the ancient Sith line.

So no, the quote can't counter what we read and see on page. Kun > Nadd > Sadow > Kressh > all other Golden Age Sith is an objective fact.
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 11:38 am
Ik I was joking
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 12:55 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:On-topic:

Regardless of which physical incarnation this is. Kun's either so powerful that he could survive a salvo of light side energy from the combined power of tens of thousands of Jedi (TOTJ Prime) or he's more powerful than Luke Skywalker through to the Hand of Thrawn duology (Kyp host body in JA).

Nothing suggest that Exar Kun could endure a massive salvo of Wall of Light produced by so many Jedi when alive. His ritual saved him:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Exar-Kun-related

From Star Wars - D6 - The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

- his Temple became the anchor of his spirit.

----

Exar Kun was in the process of executing a dreadful ritual on Yavin 4 and the Jedi avoided making contact with him on the ground under these circumstances. The course of events are as follows:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Exar-Kun-Ritual

But Exar Kun had sensed the approach of the Republic forces and laid preparations. Summoning his loyal Massassi warriors, he performed a dreadful ritual that drained them of their life essence. Exar Kun became a spirit of pure darkness. - SWTOR: Codex entry: Galactic History 61: The Brotherhood is Broken

Then came the WALL OF LIGHT:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4

Thexan vs Exar Kun Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4a

The Jedi in the fleet sensed Exar Kun's actions. Led by Nomi, they created a "wall of light" through the Force. Exar Kun found himself trapped within the temples of Yavin Four for eternity, screaming with rage and helpless to escape. - SWTOR: Codex entry: Galactic History 61: The Brotherhood is Broken

Ulic Qel-Droma visited Yavin 4 after 2 years:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Post-Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4

Thexan vs Exar Kun Post-Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4a

Thexan vs Exar Kun Exar-Kun-Spirit-Temples1

Kun's spirit is shown to manifest by drawing energy from a living being when nearby; it fades otherwise. The Jedi Academy Sourcebook highlight the same reality. His knowledge and essence remained but he lost his strength and desired access to a fresh Force-sensitive body to rebuild himself in times of Luke Skywalker.

----

Imagine thousands of Jedi attempting to make contact with Tenebrae on the ground while he is in the process of executing the most dreadful ritual to be ever attempted... all Jedi would perish under these circumstances.

@LadyKulvax wrote:
Kun stomps almost all of TOR.

Really? Why he failed to defeat Ood Bnar? Something that Sedriss managed... All that is known is that Ood could draw from the depths of Ossus to augment his attacks as a tree. Now this does not suggest that he could channel raw power of the entire planet into his attack as a tree - he would have obliterated a massive piece of land along with Kun otherwise. Abeloth did something similar through a Jedi for comparison and reference.

The Chron supernova incident cannot be used to scale Ood either because Ossus was an artificial planet produced by the ancient Architects and it withstood the Chron supernova by virtue of its amazing properties. Ossus not only saved Ood but also numerous others who took shelter inside the mountains.

I rank Kun very high in person but he have his match in 'some' characters introduced by BioWare thus far. Kun was virtually irrelevant in the Shadow of Revan expansion set - imagine this. Funny thoughts come to mind.

@LadyKulvax wrote:
@KingKopecz wrote:Since when? The quote doesn’t even mention him.

The quote is an all-encompassing historical quote and the source goes on at length about Malak well beforehand. There's no reason he isn't included.

Exar Kun, Darth Malak and Darth Revan - each is counted as 'among' the most powerful Force-users in history in a CODEX ENTRY - these entries are purposefully aimed to expand on the lore by "providing an encyclopedic view of the universe as a whole" as per the official BioWare news item*. Therefore, these characters are covered.

*LINK: http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20110506

WE might not be getting new books in relation to SWTOR now.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 2:10 pm
It’s hard to say but possibly Thexan.
Thanaton
Thanaton

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 3:52 pm
Thexan 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 shots.
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 3:54 pm
@Thanaton
Are you Vegak?
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Thexan vs Exar Kun Empty Re: Thexan vs Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 8:03 pm
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:
@LadyKulvax wrote:On-topic:

Regardless of which physical incarnation this is. Kun's either so powerful that he could survive a salvo of light side energy from the combined power of tens of thousands of Jedi (TOTJ Prime) or he's more powerful than Luke Skywalker through to the Hand of Thrawn duology (Kyp host body in JA).

Nothing suggest that Exar Kun could endure a massive salvo of Wall of Light produced by so many Jedi when alive. His ritual saved him:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Exar-Kun-related

From Star Wars - D6 - The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

- his Temple became the anchor of his spirit.

----

Exar Kun was in the process of executing a dreadful ritual on Yavin 4 and the Jedi avoided making contact with him on the ground under these circumstances. The course of events are as follows:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Exar-Kun-Ritual

But Exar Kun had sensed the approach of the Republic forces and laid preparations. Summoning his loyal Massassi warriors, he performed a dreadful ritual that drained them of their life essence. Exar Kun became a spirit of pure darkness. - SWTOR: Codex entry: Galactic History 61: The Brotherhood is Broken

Then came the WALL OF LIGHT:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4

Thexan vs Exar Kun Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4a

The Jedi in the fleet sensed Exar Kun's actions. Led by Nomi, they created a "wall of light" through the Force. Exar Kun found himself trapped within the temples of Yavin Four for eternity, screaming with rage and helpless to escape. - SWTOR: Codex entry: Galactic History 61: The Brotherhood is Broken

Ulic Qel-Droma visited Yavin 4 after 2 years:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Post-Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4

Thexan vs Exar Kun Post-Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4a

Thexan vs Exar Kun Exar-Kun-Spirit-Temples1

Kun's spirit is shown to manifest by drawing energy from a living being when nearby; it fades otherwise. The Jedi Academy Sourcebook highlight the same reality. His knowledge and essence remained but he lost his strength and desired access to a fresh Force-sensitive body to rebuild himself in times of Luke Skywalker.

----

Imagine thousands of Jedi attempting to make contact with Tenebrae on the ground while he is in the process of executing the most dreadful ritual to be ever attempted... all Jedi would perish under these circumstances.

First of all, Exar Kun prior to the ritual indeed did not stand a chance against the combined Order's power. This is the reason why he drained thousands of Massassi; all strong with the dark side, as well as an unknown amount of his disciples. As noted in the source you provided.

The drain made him so powerful that he could take such an attack and survive. Noting that one of these tens of thousands of Jedi is Master Thon who could contain and cleanse the power of Ambria as well as the Sith spirits hsd enough power that they could consume an entire sector of space.

These sources extrapolate on this:

Star Wars the Old Republic: Timeline 'The Exar Kun War' wrote:The Republic drove Kun back to Yavin 4, where the Dark Lord enacted a ritual, sacrificing his armies to keep his spirit alive. Though unable to defeat him entirely, the Jedi were able to imprison Exar Kun's spirit in the temples on Yavin 4. From what we know, it remains there to this day.

Indeed, Kun sees his ability to face the entire Order as one of his main sources of pride which sustains his will:

I, Jedi wrote:I let Streen fill Kun with our resolve to unite and defeat him, but Kun's contempt for us came rolling back along the line like an echo. He had faced fleets of ships and all the known Jedi. He had slain his own master. His power was unrivaled. He had defeated our Master and beyond our resolve to fight, we had no operative plans and nothing with which to challenge him. We were snacks he would devour at his leisure, not morsels that might choke him.

It's noted outright that prior to the ritual Kun's power was close to becoming too great for even the Jedi Order to stop:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Screenshot_20200607-142432_Gallery

Given that Kun did indeed drain all of those Massassi whilst he was alive and immediately prior to his conversion into an unchained essence then Kun did indeed become so powerful that he was able to match the Jedi Order's power enough to survive it. Though given he had become a spirit at this point, he had no means to renew his spent energy on what was now a dead world. Worse, the Jedi had built an underground city meant to prevent Kun's return for ever occurring. It was destroyed in 5ABY.

@S_W_LeGenD wrote:
@LadyKulvax wrote:
Kun stomps almost all of TOR.

Really? Why he failed to defeat Ood Bnar? Something that Sedriss managed... All that is known is that Ood could draw from the depths of Ossus to augment his attacks as a tree. Now this does not suggest that he could channel raw power of the entire planet into his attack as a tree - he would have obliterated a massive piece of land along with Kun otherwise. Abeloth did something similar through a Jedi for comparison and reference.

So many things wrong with one paragraph. First of all, Ood channeling the living Force energy of the planet to generate a shield strong enough to aid him in surviving the ten supernova waves that directly hit Ossus is no slight on Kun.

Exar Kun tanked a blast of power channelled from the same source of power and walked it off. Let me reiterate, Ood Bnar had the chance to kill a Dark Lord of the Sith responsible for the destruction of numerous star systems, including Ossus, and a war that devastated the entire galaxy and caused the deaths of every single Jedi Master bar Thon. But he was unable to do, despite Kun being off-guard.

This isn't even prime Kun, given the invaluable sources of knowledge he makes off with and his draining of the Massassi. Indeed, it is stated outright that prime Kun is far more powerful than any Jedi of the time. There' no reason Ood isn't included in this.

As far as Ood in DE is concerned, not only has he been stated to weaken due to the intense radiation:

Thexan vs Exar Kun Screen_Shot_2020-06-13_at_9.31.29_AM
He says outright that Sedriss is trying to kill him but he can prevent it due to his greater Force power/mastery:

Dark Empire II Audio Drama wrote:Ood Bnar: GET BACK SKYWALKER! THIS EVIL ONE IS TRYING TO KILL ME! BUT I AM A GREATER MASTER OF THE FORCE THAN HE!!!

And if you want to point at secondary material, TCSWE supports Bnar being outright responsible for their deaths:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Several thousand years later on the planet Ossus, Bnar reawakened to help save Jem Ysanna, a young woman with powers in the Force. He ultimately sacrificed himself to destroy the evil Imperial Military Executor Sedriss.

****

The Executor was destroyed by the power of an ancient Jedi, Ood Bnar.

As far as using environmental damage to assess how much power could be used in combat. I assume you're going to analyse all SWTOR fights with the same scrutiny.

@S_W_LeGenD wrote:I rank Kun very high in person but he have his match in 'some' characters introduced by BioWare thus far. Kun was virtually irrelevant in the Shadow of Revan expansion set - imagine this. Funny thoughts come to mind.

Yeah, Kun with no energy reserves can blast back SOR HOT who is >> ACT III Vitiate. Hahaha, very funny.

In all seriousness, Charles Boyd himself has said in live interviews that they either wanted to do very little or an entire storyline if they use Kun. They didn't want to divert attention away from their main storyline.

If you try to draw comparisons between powerless Kun and others in SOR may I point out that when the Dashade Ak'ghal Usar gets a measure of KOTFE CH.12's Outlander's essence and compares it to Kun's and Vitiate's, he immediately assumes the Outlander must be a servant of either:



Now, I'm not in the business of this. But arguing SWTOR exclusive comparisons against Kun won't go well for you.
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