Exar Kun vs Darth Nox

Exar Kun has his amulet and in his physical body

Darth Nox with all 4 Ghosts+The Voss spirit as well as of KOTFE

Kun stomps.

I'll back Kun.

Kun.

Is Kun really beating KotFE outlander? I don't think a sub SF Malak level being is on that level

What does him being sub-SF Malak have to do with anything? It just raises Malak and unless you can draw a comparison between Malak and Nox I'm not convinced it has any kind of relevance.

OT - I assumed it was as of Act 3 hence why I said Kun wins. Given that it's as of KOTFE Nox could potentially win though it's a good fight either way.

True but that would also mean KotFE outlander is considerably below kotor Revan. Making the idea that KotET outlander being comparable to SoR Revan a far fetched idea(not saying you have this belief its just a commonly held belief).

The power growth The Outlander undergoes is utterly ridiculous though. He literally goes from massively below Arcann to above Unchained Vaylin over the course of KOTFE and KOTET. Him being considerably below KOTOR Revan as of KOTFE doesn't preclude him from being as strong as SOR Revan at the end of KOTET given that fact tbh.

The Malak quote is dead, though. There's at least four major reasons it is flawed, but worse than that, you're essentially arguing SF!Malak is GM Luke tier by abiding by that quote given Kun's depictions and scalings therein.

Kun

Probably Kun

LadyKulvax wrote:The Malak quote is dead, though. There's at least four major reasons it is flawed, but worse than that, you're essentially arguing SF!Malak is GM Luke tier by abiding by that quote given Kun's depictions and scalings therein.

I assume this is the main reason you say the quote is dead.

Star Wars Omnibus: Tales of the Jedi Volume 2 wrote:Nearly four thousand years before the birth of Luke Skywalker, the galaxy faces its greatest threat since the founding of the Republic!


You use this to retcon the malak quote. However nothing about this quote retcons anything. For the sake of argument I will be assuming the quote refers to only Kun and not his armies and such.

There are two  possible interpretations for the quote. The quote either applies to threats only up to the time of Kun's life or it extends to all of history. Under the first interpretation this quote has nothing to do with Malak so the SF Malak>Kun quote stands. 

The second interpretation must then be taken as hyperbole for it to make any sense.if taken literally Kun is greater than Valkorion, DE Sidious, KF Vader or even Abeloth. Now you don't personally extend the quote that far but there's no reason you can't. You likely don't do it because you know to do so is utterly ridiculous.

So the quote either has nothing to do with Malak and therefore doesn't retcon anything or its blatant hyperbole and therefore cannot be used to retcon anything. So the Malak quote stands either way.

Jesus Christ. The quote is up to 4,000BBY. So no it doesn't cover past that point.

Secondly, it referring to a military threat is ridiculous given that the Republic itself dwarfs the Brotherhood's might and was a far graver threat to the likes of the Sith. Not to mention that the Star Forge is literally able to create endless ships and Jedi slaughtering droids, and is a greater superweapon than anything the Brotherhood has ever had.

But the biggest threat the Brotherhood poses, is Kun himself. Nor do I think taking into account the context of the next paragraph is applicable to determining the nature of this quote on its own two feet.

Now the funny thing is, Exar Kun with the aid of Kyp is stated to be a greater threat and enemy than Daala's massive Imperial warmachine, specifically due to his power in the Force. So assuming you want to suggest that Exar Kun isn't as big of a threat as the combined might of his brotherhood, is literally objectively false.

So no, the quote literally cannot be referring to the military and destructive potential of the brotherhood. Because it wouldn't be true if it was. The quote is quite clearly referring to Kun, and that fits perfectly with literally the entire narrative of the Tales of the Jedi arc and all his descriptions in sourcebooks. Not to mention, that it fits perfectly well with his accolade from Dark Apprentice.

Tales of the Jedi Omnibus: Exar Kun's power is the biggest threat to the galaxy ever as of 4000bby, since the formation of the Republic. 

Dark Apprentice: Exar Kun is the biggest threat to the New Republic at this moment, and could become the greatest threat it has ever faced, with Kyp's aid.

Notice how neither Exar Kun or Kyp Durron have any military might to call upon that wasn't already something the NR faced and defeated, thus couldn't be the reason why they're capable of becoming the greatest threat to the New Republic ever.

It's almost as if both of those sources were written by the same pair of authors and that the quotes have a mirror purpose.

But better yet, the Malak quote itself doesn't even consist of having a singular interpretation. There are a host of issues with it, such as the wording for one, and no one has bothered to go about answering them.

If you're going to genuinely take the quote at face value despite all of this, you're going to need to explain why you have SF!Malak >> BFC!Luke and do so real freaking quickly.

But perhaps the most consequential quote is the fact that Darth Nihilus, the most powerful character in the KotOR series, is stated to be only on par with the power of some of the ancient Sith Lords by Darth Traya who is confirmed to be accurate in her estimations by Chris Avellone, citing the holocrons gathered by Atris to be Traya's measure of power for the ancients making her highly reliable even without Chris' authorial backing. Given that Exar Kun is confirmed to be more powerful than Marka Ragnos who is in turn confirmed to be > all other ancients, you can see where I'm going with this.

I'd make a blog but I'm lazy.

Well idk why you spent a lot of time arguing the quote applied to specifically Kun even though I conceded that already for the sake of this argument. You have also clarifed that you believe the quote extends to only 4000 bby meaning the quote cannot retcon the malak quote. I will make the argument that spirit kun>physical kun in another thread as I think such a subject deserves its own thread.

Nox, and I'll happily debate anyone who'd argue otherwise.

@SithArchaeologist @LadyKulvax FIGHT!

Kun dismantles Nox, unless you somehow use feats from KOTFE and try to attribute them to Nox. 

Seeing as the OP specifies Kun with his physical body and amulet, but not TOTJ Kun, its even worse

KingofBlades wrote:Well idk why you spent a lot of time arguing the quote applied to specifically Kun even though I conceded that already for the sake of this argument. You have also clarifed that you believe the quote extends to only 4000 bby meaning the quote cannot retcon the malak quote. I will make the argument that spirit kun>physical kun in another thread as I think such a subject deserves its own thread.

Kun is confirmed to be more powerful when he was alive in numerous sources and by both of his authors. So how about no?

Is there any evidence that kun's use of ds tendrils on luke was an actual display of superiority or was it simply a case of Luke not knowing how to counter sith sorcery?

It doesn't really matter when Kun is more powerful than Kyp, who was at least able to contend with Luke at this point.

Better yet, this quote confirms that even within the scope of BFC, Kun is still more powerful than Luke:

New Rebellion wrote:[size=34]She [Leia] wished she had the same certainty. This Kueller had more Force capability than anyone she had encountered in years. Except Exar Kun, and he had been a spirit. Kueller was alive.[/size]
[size=34]He was using these deaths to replenish his own well of hatred. The dark side ate people from within, but while it did so, it gave them too much power.[/size]
[size=34]He appeared to have more power than she had. More power than Luke.[/size]