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Vaelias
Vaelias

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 19th 2020, 5:54 pm
1. TESB Luke Skywalker
2. AOTC Anakin Skywalker
3. Cade Skywalker
4. Kol Skywalker
5 ROTS Anakin Skywalker
6. Darth Vader ( Pre Suit )
7. GM Luke Skywalker
8. Mortis Anakin Skywalker ;)
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 19th 2020, 6:07 pm
Stops at 7
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 19th 2020, 6:24 pm
Stops at 6
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 19th 2020, 6:46 pm
Stops at 6 due to being unstable as hell and not being as skilled or powerful.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Five
Level Five

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 19th 2020, 6:52 pm
Stops at 1
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Six
Level Six

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 19th 2020, 7:14 pm
Dies at 7.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 19th 2020, 9:29 pm
dies at 5
Vaelias
Vaelias

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 19th 2020, 10:00 pm
She dies at 5 tho tbh
Trayus Marauder
Trayus Marauder

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 19th 2020, 11:50 pm
Stops at 5
DarthFatcow
DarthFatcow

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 20th 2020, 2:18 am
Can arguably get past 5, get's beaten at 6.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 12:40 pm
Vaylin will reach (7) if not further.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 12:46 pm
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:Vaylin will reach (7) if not further.

In what way does she possibly even get to GM Luke never mind higher
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 12:58 pm
@Vaelias wrote:
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:Vaylin will reach (7) if not further.

In what way does she possibly even get to GM Luke never mind higher

She was next to Valkorion in raw power and combat-applicable capabilities. She was on a Starship when she destroyed Sanitarium (a massive and extremely durable structure on NATHEMA which was as much underground as it was towering above the surface) with a thought - it is not even clear how she pulled this off since NATHEMA was an environment where the Jedi and Sith were unable to use their Force powers. Moments before, she lifted multiple Knights of Zakuul from the ground and Force-choked them all to death at the same time. She was able to respond to even reality warping tricks of Valkorion.

Anakin Skywalker had to take 501st with him while raiding the Jedi Temple, right? Vaylin would not have bothered with 501st and would have collapsed the Jedi Temple instead... She could devastate an entire metropolis and not tire in the process as Lana Beniko warned.

Vaylin had to be dealt with on priority basis before she would become too powerful for virtually anybody to handle...

For a character tremendously gifted in the ways of the Force in natural capacity and showing so much promise in all aspects of life, Vaylin's story is tragic.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 1:34 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
She was next to Valkorion in raw power and combat-applicable capabilities.
Vaylin is behind Valkorion and EoKOTET (or at the very most Onslaught) Outlander.

She was on a Starship when she destroyed Sanitarium (a massive and extremely durable structure on NATHEMA which was as much underground as it was towering above the surface) with a thought - it is not even clear how she pulled this off since NATHEMA was an environment where the Jedi and Sith were unable to use their Force powers.
She destroyed The Sanitarium by overloading the generators and causing a chain reaction. Incredibly impressive feat to be sure, but you yourself have stated it's unclear how she pulled this off. Perhaps she built up a resistance to the void due to years of exposure to it and unlocking her full power allowed her to limit its effects (in a similar way that Valk could stop the Outlander and Lana from being rendered powerless but couldn't prevent them from being weakened), or reaching down onto the planet from orbit doesn't hinder the Force user nearly as much.

Moments before, she lifted multiple Knights of Zakuul from the ground and Force-choked them all to death at the same time.

Four Knights of Zakuul were sent flying by Lana then lost to her in a duel. Pre-EoKOTET Outlander was also carving through numerous of them and even Horizon Guard members (the elite Knights). They've also been likened to average Jedi and Sith only better, so it's basically her ragdolling fodder.

Valkorion also doesn't reality warp, that's factually false. The most he's done is speed up the Outlander's cognitive processes (via telepathy) or mentally communicate with beings by appearing to them. He outright confirms that he can't stop time.

Anakin Skywalker had to take 501st with him while raiding the Jedi Temple, right?

No, he took the 501st to make sure no Jedi escaped. If he'd attacked alone, there's a good chance the majority of the Jedi would have fled, making defeating them exponentially more difficult.

Vaylin would not have bothered with 501st and would have collapsed the Jedi Temple instead... She could devastate an entire metropolis and not tire in the process as Lana Beniko warned.

This is just a bizarre argument. Vaylin, let alone chained Vaylin, has never shown the ability to "devastate an entire metropolis." Lana's words were clearly hyperbolic to emphasise that Vaylin will re-capture the Outlander by any means necessary.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 2:21 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
5 or 7. 5 in Lucas’ medium, 7 if a TFU/SWTOR medium.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 2:29 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:5 or 7. 5 in Lucas’ medium, 7 if a TFU/SWTOR medium.

What u mean in a TFU/SWTOR medium ?
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 2:37 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:5 or 7. 5 in Lucas’ medium, 7 if a TFU/SWTOR medium.
What?
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 3:49 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@BreakofDawn wrote:
Vaylin is behind Valkorion and EoKOTET (or at the very most Onslaught) Outlander.

I do not count the Oulander because Valkorion was inside his head, enhancing Force-sensitivity and powers of the host. The Outlander was destined to succeed no matter what.

@BreakofDawn wrote:She destroyed The Sanitarium by overloading the generators and causing a chain reaction. Incredibly impressive feat to be sure, but you yourself have stated it's unclear how she pulled this off. Perhaps she built up a resistance to the void due to years of exposure to it and unlocking her full power allowed her to limit its effects (in a similar way that Valk could stop the Outlander and Lana from being rendered powerless but couldn't prevent them from being weakened), or reaching down onto the planet from orbit doesn't hinder the Force user nearly as much.

Irrespective of how it happened, one thing is clear from this particular feat that Vaylin stood apart from the Jedi and Sith in using the Force by now.

@BreakofDawn wrote:
Four Knights of Zakuul were sent flying by Lana then lost to her in a duel. Pre-EoKOTET Outlander was also carving through numerous of them and even Horizon Guard members (the elite Knights). They've also been likened to average Jedi and Sith only better, so it's basically her ragdolling fodder.

Lord Lana Beniko was/is among the strongest and most resolute of the Sith in her time; just her contribution to LIFTING the Gravestone suggest that she was capable of moving really big things around. There are different ways to gauge implied strength however. Her tendency to partake in exceedingly dangerous developments, and recover from injuries sustained (time-and-again), is testament to her DURABILITY and command of the Force in person.

People talk much about The Outlander but few appreciate the significance of Lord Lana's efforts in helping him get through. She helped him break free from Carbonite Freezing, and she saved him when he had taken a lightsaber to the gut. She also fought by his side in numerous encounters, killing numerous opponents by herself. The Outlander had other powerful allies helping him as well.

Now; the feat I highlighted involved lifting multiple Knights of Zakuul from the ground and then choking all to death mid-air:

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  5757723-7634642533-TdjqI

"I have never seen such power." - Horizon Captain

For comparison:

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  7483185-xnedgr

Lana was struggling to do that to a lone Knight of Zakuul, let alone several and ELITES on top.

---

Vaylin is also noted to have destroyed an entire contingent of Knights of Zakuul on another occasion:

With the rising flames, Senya finally witnessed the true carnage Vaylin had unleashed on the camp: dozens of Knights – bodies mutilated and mangled – had been tossed haphazardly amongst the scattered wreckage of ships and shuttles torn asunder. The full breadth of the slaughter sent a chill down her back; grim evidence of the horrors her daughter was capable of. - Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: A Mother's Hope

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  ZiLFLhS

- they were openly hostile to her and supporting Senya instead.

Such contingent(s) of the Knights of Zakuul are actually credited for defeating the Jedi and Sith in numbers, and making it possible for The Eternal Empire to subjugate both The Republic and The Empire by extension.

Lord Lana's accomplishment of handling 4 x Knights of Zakuul in a fight is undeniably impressive and reinforce the notion that she was/is among the strongest and most resolute of the Sith in her time but even this accomplishment pales in comparison to Vaylin's ability to do much the same to an entire contingent of the Knights of Zakuul.

@BreakofDawn wrote:
Valkorion also doesn't reality warp, that's factually false. The most he's done is speed up the Outlander's cognitive processes (via telepathy) or mentally communicate with beings by appearing to them. He outright confirms that he can't stop time.

1. Telepathy is different from that.
2. Time does not stop.

Reality Warping = Reality Manipulation (a spectrum of powers that defy laws of physics and/or logic). Valkorion was demonstrating Time Fold to be precise - a technique which is hinted in writings of Darth Plagueis (Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side) but there are no documented demonstrations from any Sith whatsoever.

@BreakofDawn wrote:
No, he took the 501st to make sure no Jedi escaped. If he'd attacked alone, there's a good chance the majority of the Jedi would have fled, making defeating them exponentially more difficult.

That makes sense but you missed my point - Vaylin would have collapsed the Jedi Temple from afar instead of wasting her time dueling with the Jedi inside. Anakin Skywalker (now Darth Vader) was apparently not operating on this level of strength at the time.

@BreakofDawn wrote:
This is just a bizarre argument. Vaylin, let alone chained Vaylin, has never shown the ability to "devastate an entire metropolis." Lana's words were clearly hyperbolic to emphasise that Vaylin will re-capture the Outlander by any means necessary.

FYI

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  U21Wdw5

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  4037459623

WE never get to see the extent of devastation Vaylin could inflict in one go while unchained but collapsing the Jedi Temple on Coruscant would be well within her capacity and more.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on November 21st 2020, 4:31 pm; edited 3 times in total
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 4:04 pm
Sub TPM plaguies character isnt touching anakin
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 4:10 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:Sub TPM plaguies character isnt touching anakin

That does not make sense.

- Darth Plaguies hinted Time Fold.
- Valkorion demonstrated Time Fold.
- Vaylin resisted Time Fold.

There are other powers which Darth Plagueis hinted in his writings but never demonstrated, but Valkorion managed to. Who is sub who is apparent from actual showings.



BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 4:36 pm
Message reputation : 100% (3 votes)
I do not count the Oulander because Valkorion was inside his head, enhancing Force-sensitivity and powers of the host. The Outlander was destined to succeed no matter what.

Valkorion has already lied to the Outlander about countless things and the Outlander already had Vitiate+ potential. It wouldn't surprise me if all Valk did was accelerate his growth (to prevent him from burning out from getting too much power too quickly but enough to boost him to the point he needs him to be at to possess him, i.e. at an accelerated growth rate towards his full potential). Regardless, there's a clear distinction between when Valk was powering the Outlander and when the Outlander was acting independently (it's never noted at any point beyond the fight with Arcann that Valk is helping), and that never happens when he fights Vaylin, including at the end of KOTET when he either defeats her singlehandedly or both her and Arcann simultaneously.

Also worth mentioning that Valkorion himself makes countless references to the Outlander's innate potential and his ability to become far more powerful than he currently is, so the idea that he drastically increased the Outlander's innate potential makes very little sense to me.

Irrespective of how it happened, one thing is clear from this particular feat that Vaylin stood apart from the Jedi and Sith in using the Force by now.

I've no idea how you can make that assumption given no one else even tried to do so. The context is equally important given that you're implying KFV or another tier 9 couldn't replicate it, or more importantly that it's not a contextual feat that isn't combat applicable.

Lord Lana Beniko was/is among the strongest and most resolute of the Sith in her time; just her contribution to LIFTING the Gravestone suggest that she was capable of moving really big things around.

At best she was providing 1/3 of the power to lift the Gravestone along the Outlander (who even when weakened vastly outstrips her in power) and Senya. It's virtually impossible to quantify exactly how much power she was providing.

There are different ways to gauge implied strength however. Her tendency to partake in exceedingly dangerous developments, and recover from injuries sustained (time-and-again), is testament to her DURABILITY and command of the Force in person.

...Okay? Koth was also slammed into a wall by Vaylin and shook it off, and he's a NFU. I fail to see the link between their recovery rate in a game (hell, the Outlander is able to fight briefly after being stabbed through the gut in gameplay despite barely being able to stand) and their Force power. That's willpower/plot driven, not a marker of Force power.

People talk much about The Outlander but few appreciate the significance of Lord Lana's efforts in helping him get through. She helped him break free from Carbonite Freezing, and she saved him when he had taken a lightsaber to the gut.

These aren't combat feats.

She also fought by his side in numerous encounters, killing numerous opponents by herself. The Outlander had other powerful allies helping him as well.

This is irrelevant.

Now; the feat I highlighted involved lifting multiple Knights of Zakuul from the ground and then choking all to death mid-air:

"I have never seen such power." - Horizon Captain

I assume we can quantify who that single Horizon Guard has seen display their power, then? Because frankly, it's an empty accolade. At best he's seen Arcann's power, who's already only ~ chained Vaylin.

For comparison: Lana was struggling to do that to a lone Knight of Zakuul, let alone multiple and ELITE on top.

Where is she struggling there? She's deliberately tormenting him and shows no visible sign of effort.

Vaylin is also noted to have destroyed an entire contingent of Knights of Zakuul on another occasion:

With the rising flames, Senya finally witnessed the true carnage Vaylin had unleashed on the camp: dozens of Knights – bodies mutilated and mangled – had been tossed haphazardly amongst the scattered wreckage of ships and shuttles torn asunder. The full breadth of the slaughter sent a chill down her back; grim evidence of the horrors her daughter was capable of. - Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: A Mother's Hope

- they were openly hostile to her and supporting Senya instead.

I'm fully aware of Vaylin's feats. You've probably misread my post as claiming Lana ~ chained Vaylin when I was actually pointing out how even characters massively sub chained Vaylin (such as Lana, who was ragdolled by her) can send Knights flying, dispatch several, and pretty easily break through their passive Force defences. Ragdolling a group of them isn't nearly as impressive as you're making it out to be.

Such contingents of Knights of Zakuul are actually credited for defeating the Jedi and Sith in numbers, and making it possible for The Eternal Empire to subjugate both The Republic and The Empire by extension.

First, the Republic and Empire were both heavily weakened by years of war. Second, that's not how the Eternal Empire won the war, only individual battles:

O: Which side did Arcann attack first?
L: Both. Ships from the Eternal Fleet struck at shipyards and rallying points for both sides simultaneously. They favoured ambush tactics throughout the war. Zakuulan sensor technology has far greater range than our own and their ships can fly much further on less resources. Only vessels retrofitted with isotope 5 could manage to outrun them. None could truly compete.
O: How long did the Republic and the Empire manage to hold out?
L: Within three months, the bulk of our naval forces were disabled or eliminated, and the Republic was in the same situation. With naval superiority Arcann's forces could begin choking off supply lines, trade, any ship travel at all. The eternal fleet seemed to be everywhere at once. Coruscant and Dromund Kaas were blockaded by the end of the first year.


The Knights might be superior to the average Jedi or Sith, but that's after years of warfare that weakened both sides and the reason they won is because of the Eternal Fleet. No details are given regarding the losses on both sides in ground battles.

Lord Lana's accomplishment of handling 4 x Knights of Zakuul in a fight is undeniably impressive and reinforce the notion that she was/is among the strongest and most resolute of the Sith in her time but even this accomplishment pales in comparison to Vaylin's ability to do much the same to an entire contingent of Knight of Zakuul.

You've yet to prove that manhandling Knights of Zakuul - who are around the same level as fodder Jedi/Sith in the game - is something the likes of KFV couldn't replicate.

1. Telepathy is different from that.

He's communicating to them mentally, so no, it's telepathy.

Reality Warping = Reality Manipulation (a spectrum of powers that defy laws of physics and/or logic). Valkorion was demonstrating Time Fold to be precise - a technique which is hinted in writings of Darth Plagueis (Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side) but there are no documented demonstrations from any Sith whatsoever.

I feel like you're referencing Fold Space, which is something completely different. He's not reality warping, he's perception altering. He's basically doing this, if you'll forgive the use of a separate franchise to give a comparison:

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Superm10

That makes sense but you missed my point - Vaylin would have collapsed the Jedi Temple from afar instead of wasting her time dueling with the Jedi inside. Anakin Skywalker (now Darth Vader) was apparently not operating on this level of strength at the time.

Or he wanted to make sure everyone was dead and did it systematically as he was ordered to. KFV scales above characters who could collapse buildings approaching that scale and he himself has TK feats from when he was Anakin that compare. Collapsing the Temple would not only have been ineffective, but pointless as the Jedi would have still escaped.

FYI

Ok, and? The quote doesn't mean anything.
Rei
Rei

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 4:56 pm
Why is Vaylin beating Pre-Suit Vader who is an equal to ROTS Sidious in Power and exceptionally more skilled in lightsaber combat than her? I only see that happening if she could pull off some magic trick that Anakin cannot defend against and the starting distance parameters allow her to do so before Anakin toasts her in a lightsaber duel. Other than that, she goes to the grave.

Vaylin beating GM Luke is laughable and entertaining at best.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 21st 2020, 6:26 pm
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:Sub TPM plaguies character isnt touching anakin

That does not make sense.

- Darth Plaguies hinted Time Fold.
- Valkorion demonstrated Time Fold.
- Vaylin resisted Time Fold.

There are other powers which Darth Plagueis hinted in his writings but never demonstrated, but Valkorion managed to. Who is sub who is apparent from actual showings.




source for that? and even then what makes time fold so impressive
DarthFatcow
DarthFatcow

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 22nd 2020, 10:20 am
Vaylin isn't beating a tier 9 who's above Yoda and equal to RoTS Sidious in power, let alone Luke, lol.
Gianfi
Gianfi

Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet  Empty Re: Vaylin runs the Skywalker Gauntlet

on November 22nd 2020, 10:29 am
5 or 6
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