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KingofBlades
KingofBlades
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on September 23rd 2020, 1:19 pm
@CuckedCurry wrote:Doesn’t say anything really, all it says is that they demonstrate more power and agility in the prequel trilogy than in the OT,  which is true—technological advancements enabled the characters to show more power on screen than what was previously available. Doesn’t override the Vader>Asajj quote in the slightest, cornbill
Jinn displaying more power than Luke despite being weaker than Luke yes. The only way that works if Luke wasn't going all out in his duel with Vader. And in order for Vader to escape this quote, you need to prove Vader also wasn't going all out against Luke. There being OOU reasons doesn't preclude IU effects. Besides, numerous quotes repeat that the improved choreography was how Lucas chose to convey his belief that PT>OT. So mentioning the OOU stuff does you no favors here.
CuckedCurry
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on September 23rd 2020, 1:37 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
What are you talking about KoB? I provided you with a response and you’ve chosen the most mindless drone-esque response humanly possible. I went over the wording of the quote, and explained that they demonstrated more power in the PT because of the OOU advancements, which is simply the truth. You have not explained to me how or why it references anything IU, and instead have just responded with muh Lucas without supplementary sources to support your claim that it is, indeed, referring to the IU skill and power levels of the characters. None of the sources you have provided are even remotely concrete, and has done nothing to override the Vader>Asajj quote, which is both concrete and IU. Try again
KingofBlades
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on September 23rd 2020, 3:27 pm
I went over the wording of the quote, and explained that they demonstrated more power in the PT because of the OOU advancements, which is simply the truth. You have not explained to me how or why it references anything IU, and instead have just responded with muh Lucas without supplementary sources to support your claim that it is, indeed, referring to the IU skill and power levels of the characters
No, I mentioned that the existence of OOU reasons for something being the case don't mean there aren't also IU explanations and rationalizations for this being the case. Which is basic common sense honestly. If George decided Maul is going to have horns because the costume department lost the wig they were going to use, there is going to be an IU reason for Maul having horns. When limited technology prevented George from having fast paced duels in ANH, George came up with the IU explanation that "they were old guys that hadn’t fought for a long time". When improved technology allows for more power to be displayed by PT Jedi in a duel, there's going to be an IU reason for why the PT Jedi are displaying more power. You're trying worm your way out of this quote by trying to divorce the effects the OOU stuff has on the IU, when they're fundamentally linked. You're trying to frame the advent of Lucas into this debate as an alternative to proving the quotes refer to IU power levels, when it isn't one. George is evidence for my argument because he's set the precedent for IU explanations arising out of OOU limitations. I know you make your living as a troll, so I won't judge you too harshly, but maybe you should stick to trolling, since its obvious you can't actually make an effective argument.

Zenwolf
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on September 23rd 2020, 3:38 pm
[quote="KingofBlades"]
 When limited technology prevented George from having fast paced duels in ANH, George came up with the IU explanation that "they were old guys that hadn’t fought for a long time". When improved technology allows for more power to be displayed by PT Jedi in a duel, there's going to be an IU reason for why the PT Jedi are displaying more power.

This kind of goes out the window, since we have Vader fighting from the beginning of the GE to the end of it. So saying he hasn't fought in a long time, doesn't make a whole lot of sense and he is fighting PT Jedi. But anyway, this is going off the thread subject, so you guys might wanna move this over to the dedicated thread I made in the Legends section.
CuckedCurry
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on September 23rd 2020, 4:32 pm
KOB wrote:
No, I mentioned that the existence of OOU reasons for something being the case don't mean there aren't also IU explanations and rationalizations for this being the case. Which is basic common sense honestly.
Ok? Why does that quote also cover the IU power levels? Still no adequate response to the Vader>Asajj quote 

When limited technology prevented George from having fast paced duels in ANH, George came up with the IU explanation that "they were old guys that hadn’t fought for a long time".
Give me a break lol. So because they haven’t fought in a while (which isn’t even correct in the case of Vader) they’re automatically sub the PT Jedi? Still no adequate response to Vader>Asajj
You're trying worm your way out of this quote by trying to divorce the effects the OOU stuff has on the IU, when they're fundamentally linked.
They’re linked to an extent. No proof that George is saying the PT Jedi would beat the OT guys IU. Still no adequate response to Vader>Asajj
I know you make your living as a troll, so I won't judge you too harshly, but maybe you should stick to trolling, since its obvious you can't actually make an effective argument.

And yet you’re losing this battle bro Shaak Ti vs Anoon Bondara - Page 2 3344068304
KingofBlades
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on September 23rd 2020, 6:58 pm
[size=34]Ok? Why does that quote also cover the IU power levels? Still no adequate response to the Vader>Asajj quote[/size]
Since when were power level statements about anything other than IU? What are OOU power levels? The force doesn't exist OOU. Is Insider handing out Ewan McGregor force accolades? It seems obvious to me; Jinn displayed more IU power than RotJ Rage Luke, who is above Vader. 

[size=34]Give me a break lol. So because they haven’t fought in a while (which isn’t even correct in the case of Vader) they’re automatically sub the PT Jedi? Still no adequate response to Vader>Asajj[/size]
STRAWMAN. I brought up this Lucas quote to establish the precedent for IU explanations arising out of OOU limitations, nowhere did I say this quote puts Vader below the PT Jedi. That's not to say quotes like that don't exist, they certainly do, but the aforementioned quote was brought up for an entirely different reason than the one you're choosing to incorrectly frame my argument as.

They’re linked to an extent. No proof that George is saying the PT Jedi would beat the OT guys IU. Still no adequate response to Vader>Asajj
Umm...I wasn't even talking about any George quote here. I was referring to the Insider quote, which per common sense, can only be referring to IU power levels since power levels only exist IU.


[size=34]And yet you’re losing this battle bro [/size]Shaak Ti vs Anoon Bondara - Page 2 3344068304
 Only in your dreams, my foolish padawan Shaak Ti vs Anoon Bondara - Page 2 3344068304
CuckedCurry
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on September 24th 2020, 3:37 am
KOB wrote:
Since when were power level statements about anything other than IU? What are OOU power levels? The force doesn't exist OOU. Is Insider handing out Ewan McGregor force accolades? It seems obvious to me; Jinn displayed more IU power than RotJ Rage Luke, who is above Vader. 
KOB, what are you talking about? What power levels? The insider quote says that the PT Jedi demonstrate more power and skill than the classic trilogy, yes. But you’re not actually understanding what that quote is saying. Like, provide me with one OT (other than Yoda lifting the X wing) feat that matches Qui-Gon casually Force pushing battle droids in TPM, because, from a cinematic perspective, I don’t think it’s possible. In that scene, Qui-Gon is demonstrating more power than anyone in the OT (bar Yoda). The quote in no way, shape or form, is referring to the actual power levels of each character. We know, once you include other pieces of material, Vader has Force feats well beyond the Qui-Gon could ever dream of doing, which is corroborated by the Vader>>Asajj quote. Unless you have Qui-Gon>Asajj 0.o
I brought up this Lucas quote to establish the precedent for IU explanations arising out of OOU limitations, nowhere did I say this quote puts Vader below the PT Jedi. 
Provide a concrete quote saying Qui-Gon is > Vader that you can prove is IU. I admitted that they’re linked, but they’re only linked to an extent. Qui-Gon being faster than Vader doesn’t extend beyond the movies, unless you can prove otherwise.
KingofBlades
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on September 24th 2020, 4:08 am
[size=37]KOB, what are you talking about? What power levels? The insider quote says that the PT Jedi [/size][size=36]demonstrate[/size][size=37] more power and skill than the classic trilogy, yes. But you’re not actually understanding what that quote is saying. Like, provide me with one OT (other than Yoda lifting the X wing) feat that matches Qui-Gon casually Force pushing battle droids in TPM, because, from a cinematic perspective, I don’t think it’s possible. In that scene, Qui-Gon is [/size][size=36]demonstrating[/size][size=37] more power than anyone in the OT (bar Yoda). The quote in no way, shape or form, is referring to the actual power levels of each character. We know, once you include other pieces of material, Vader has Force feats well beyond the Qui-Gon could ever dream of doing, which is corroborated by the Vader>>Asajj quote. Unless you have Qui-Gon>Asajj 0.o[/size]
I misspoke by saying power levels rather than power. My point has been that Jinn displayed more IU power than Luke did(just look at the very same paragraph you cited). Now do I think this quote caps Vader on it's own? No I don't. As I said a few posts back, Vader can escape this quote if one proves he wasn't operating at peak levels during the OT. The same goes for Luke. Which leads us to this perceived disparity between EU Vader and Jinn's feats that you mentioned. Personally, I don't really care about force feat comparisons, largely due to medium differences, but I'll put that aside for now. What feat has EU Vader performed in the EU that Jinn definitively cannot replicate or exceed? Note simply providing a feat that is more impressive than any of Jinn's is not proof. This is because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Unless you can define an upper limit to Jinn's force feats and establish Vader to be above said upper limit, your argument has no leg to stand upon.

Provide a concrete quote saying Qui-Gon is > Vader that you can prove is IU. I admitted that they’re linked, but they’re only linked to an extent. Qui-Gon being faster than Vader doesn’t extend beyond the movies, unless you can prove otherwise.
The Insider quote has established that Jinn displayed more power than RotJ Rage Luke. If you want Vader to be exempt from this quote, you need to prove Vader wasn't operating at his best during RotJ.
LadyKulvax
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on September 24th 2020, 9:03 pm
@Meatpants wrote:Everyone knows that quote exists.

That's absolutely not what I meant, lol.
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