Kyp Durron vs Darth Malgus

Who wins?

Kyp breaks him, easily.

Prime Malgus slaughters in sabers. Force he goes down hard.

Kyp Durron is very strong in the Force and have remarkable showings in telekinesis. However, his dueling abilities and tolerance to Sith lightning are on the level of Jaina Solo at best.

"She rose suddenly, in a fluid blur, one hand thrown toward the older Jedi. Dark lightning crackled from her fingers and surrounded him in a shining nimbus. He flew back and struck the wall hard. His eyes narrowed, and the deadly aura disappeared. Jaina's eyes widened in surprise. "If I can summon it, I can dispel it" he told her. "You're not the only one who took that path." - New Jedi Order: Dark Journey

Kyp was able to mitigate Sith lightning from Jaina Solo but she is nowhere close to Darth Malgus in this area and otherwise.

Darth Malgus is an exceptionally skilled duelist and his proficiency in Sith lightning is to such a degree that he could expand it into a Force Maelstrom which is the precursor to Force Storm employed by Palpatine centuries later (Palpatine even credits Darth Malgus in this matter). Even some of the most powerful Force-users in the galaxy stood no chance at enduring Darth Malgus's Sith lightning for long. And his tolerance to Force powers is phenomenal to the point that HOW he made it through the oblivion of the Emperor's space fortress is a mystery in itself. He have tolerated much in the past including a blast of power from Satele Shan which shattered a rocky formation around him after absorbing energy from his lightsaber (a rocky formation of the size would have a mass of hundreds of tons and I am sure that this is sheer underestimation on my part). The seemingly 50-story tall tree which Satele Shan brought down during the course of her fight with Darth Malgus, would have a mass of hundreds of tons based on real trees.

MY TAKE

Kyp would be able to affect Darth Malgus with his vast telekinetic abilities and might score a victory in a few situations but Darth Malgus have the upperhand in my view and would absolutely dictate the course of this confrontation if he makes the first move and sets the momentum of the battle afterwards.


Kyp Durron = 30%
Darth Malgus = 70%

Kyp obliterates, lol. Zero contest.

Kyp

If the Outlander couldn't dispatch Malgus with the force, neither can Kyp. Malgus takes it swiftly on the melee.

kyp in reality not even fair

Just a few points I took notice of here.

First off you make the case that Kyp's tolerance to lightning and dueling abilities cap out at Jaina Solo level at best.

S_W_LeGenD wrote:Kyp Durron is very strong in the Force and have remarkable showings in telekinesis. However, his dueling abilities and tolerance to Sith lightning are on the level of Jaina Solo at best.

"She rose suddenly, in a fluid blur, one hand thrown toward the older Jedi. Dark lightning crackled from her fingers and surrounded him in a shining nimbus. He flew back and struck the wall hard. His eyes narrowed, and the deadly aura disappeared. Jaina's eyes widened in surprise. "If I can summon it, I can dispel it" he told her. "You're not the only one who took that path." - New Jedi Order: Dark Journey

Kyp was able to mitigate Sith lightning from Jaina Solo but she is nowhere close to Darth Malgus in this area and otherwise.

But in the quote you provided there was no such evidence that Jaina Solo is the cap for either of these abilities.

As far as the lightning goes, you highlighted her hurling into a wall with lightning, but as soon as he merely narrows his eyes and actually tries to dispel her lightning it goes away, and to be honest the fact that it was merely him narrowing his eyes would seem to imply if anything that he did so without much struggle. So if anything his tolerance to lightning caps out at Jaina at worst. I think it's somewhat disingenuous to suggest a character's feat caps them off at that point when there is no evidence suggesting that feat took place at the limit of their abilities, and when in fact the implication seems to be the other way around.

As far as his dueling capping off at Jaina, I am neither going to agree with or deny your point, merely that you did not provide evidence for this claim.


Next you addressed Malgus's feat of surviving Satele's blast.

S_W_LeGenD wrote:He have tolerated much in the past including a blast of power from Satele Shan which shattered a rocky formation around him after absorbing energy from his lightsaber (a rocky formation of the size would have a mass of hundreds of tons and I am sure that this is sheer underestimation on my part).

It's worth noting that the fact that he survived the blast doesn't mean he absorbed the entirety of it, as evidenced by the shattering of the formation around him to begin with. It's an impressive feat, but you can't argue Malgus (at least at that point in his Sith career) could tank the full brunt of that power just as I could not argue Kas'im could tank the full brunt of the telekinetic wave Bane unleashed on Lehon, just a portion of it. Still impressive, but needs context.

S_W_LeGenD wrote:The seemingly 50-story tall tree which Satele Shan brought down during the course of her fight with Darth Malgus, would have a mass of hundreds of tons based on real trees.

No.

Rewatch Deceived, that tree didn't even seem to be fifty feet tall, much less fifty stories.

TenebrousWay wrote:If the Outlander couldn't dispatch Malgus with the force, neither can Kyp. Malgus takes it swiftly on the melee.

No proof the Outlander couldn't dispatch him with the Force, actually. The Outlander is a very martial combatant and focuses on saber combat first and foremost, only using Force abilities when necessary.

Moot point considering the Outlander can be also Darth Nox and the Barsen'thor. There is still no evidence he can dispatch Malgus with the Force.

TenebrousWay wrote:Moot point considering the Outlander can be also Darth Nox and the Barsen'thor. There is still no evidence he can dispatch Malgus with the Force.

You're arguing a technicality. For the sake of debating, we assume that he's the HoT. He already has potent scaling putting him far above a character like Malgus, who is at best Arcann level.

The Outlander being the HoT doesn't invalidate or contradict what the others can do, otherwise we would need to disregard their storyline. 

Scaling must pass through the scrutiny of actual engagements. There is enough evidence that the Outlander can't immediately dispatch Malgus with the Force and even Gnost Dural considers Malgus to not be a trivial opponent. You are simply ignoring new variables that were introduced within Onslaught.

TenebrousWay wrote:The Outlander being the HoT doesn't invalidate or contradict what the others can do, otherwise we would need to disregard their storyline. 

Scaling must pass through the scrutiny of actual engagements. There is enough evidence that the Outlander can't immediately dispatch Malgus with the Force and even Gnost Dural considers Malgus to not be a trivial opponent. You are simply ignoring new variables that were introduced within Onslaught.

By that token, should we invalidate everything that happens post SoR because the Outlander might hypothetically be a non-force user? I don't necessarily disagree with you, just was wondering.

Why would we invalidate everything post SoR? Assuming the Outlander is one of the non-force sensitive classes, what does it have to do with the invalidation? The fact evert class can play the Outlander strongly suggests (if not outright proves) that all classes can be empowered to perform as the HoTlander.

LSDMB wrote:Just a few points I took notice of here.

First off you make the case that Kyp's tolerance to lightning and dueling abilities cap out at Jaina Solo level at best.

S_W_LeGenD wrote:Kyp Durron is very strong in the Force and have remarkable showings in telekinesis. However, his dueling abilities and tolerance to Sith lightning are on the level of Jaina Solo at best.

"She rose suddenly, in a fluid blur, one hand thrown toward the older Jedi. Dark lightning crackled from her fingers and surrounded him in a shining nimbus. He flew back and struck the wall hard. His eyes narrowed, and the deadly aura disappeared. Jaina's eyes widened in surprise. "If I can summon it, I can dispel it" he told her. "You're not the only one who took that path." - New Jedi Order: Dark Journey

Kyp was able to mitigate Sith lightning from Jaina Solo but she is nowhere close to Darth Malgus in this area and otherwise.

But in the quote you provided there was no such evidence that Jaina Solo is the cap for either of these abilities.

As far as the lightning goes, you highlighted her hurling into a wall with lightning, but as soon as he merely narrows his eyes and actually tries to dispel her lightning it goes away, and to be honest the fact that it was merely him narrowing his eyes would seem to imply if anything that he did so without much struggle. So if anything his tolerance to lightning caps out at Jaina at worst. I think it's somewhat disingenuous to suggest a character's feat caps them off at that point when there is no evidence suggesting that feat took place at the limit of their abilities, and when in fact the implication seems to be the other way around.

As far as his dueling capping off at Jaina, I am neither going to agree with or deny your point, merely that you did not provide evidence for this claim.


Next you addressed Malgus's feat of surviving Satele's blast.

S_W_LeGenD wrote:He have tolerated much in the past including a blast of power from Satele Shan which shattered a rocky formation around him after absorbing energy from his lightsaber (a rocky formation of the size would have a mass of hundreds of tons and I am sure that this is sheer underestimation on my part).

It's worth noting that the fact that he survived the blast doesn't mean he absorbed the entirety of it, as evidenced by the shattering of the formation around him to begin with. It's an impressive feat, but you can't argue Malgus (at least at that point in his Sith career) could tank the full brunt of that power just as I could not argue Kas'im could tank the full brunt of the telekinetic wave Bane unleashed on Lehon, just a portion of it. Still impressive, but needs context.

S_W_LeGenD wrote:The seemingly 50-story tall tree which Satele Shan brought down during the course of her fight with Darth Malgus, would have a mass of hundreds of tons based on real trees.

No.

Rewatch Deceived, that tree didn't even seem to be fifty feet tall, much less fifty stories.

Jaina Solo's top showing with Force lightning is killing a Yuuzhan Vong warrior at point blank range in a fit of rage. As soon as this confrontation ended, Jaina noticed Vergere, and subjected the latter to a bolt of Force lightning as well (given her anger), only for Vergere to deflect this attack with a lightsaber and flee because of her lack of interest in confronting Jaina at the time.

Jaina was able to affect Kyp Durron with Force lightning for a short while until he dissipated her attack without a lightsaber (impressive skill). However, Darth Malgus is infinitely superior to Jaina Solo in the application of Force lightning, and this doesn't bode well for Kyp by extension.

---

During the course of battles on Aldeeran; a missile struck and injured Darth Malgus early on. Next, he tolerated explosion of a grenade at point-blank range followed by a significant blast of power from a seemingly charged Satele Shan which shattered a massive rocky formation around him. The blast of power struck Darth Malgus and the rocky formation around him with equal intensity; its potency is apparent from what it did to the rocky formation upon contact, and Darth Malgus's survival under these circumstances is very telling in regards to his tolerance to injuries, pain and even lethal Force powers.







Kas'im also experienced full potency of the wave of energy unleashed upon him by Darth Bane and would have been reduced to pulp if he didn't threw up a barrier in time which he did. To his dismay, the wave of energy was far bigger in scale and ruined the structure above him (burying Kas'im beneath tons of rock). Kas'im was lacking in raw power vis-à-vis Darth Malgus nevertheless.

Darth Malgus decided to confront another Jedi on Alderaan in spite of his severe injuries which he had suffered at the hands of Jace Malcom and Satele Shan earlier (see above). This Jedi was also a telekinetic powerhouse and brought down two buildings in his effort to crush Darth Malgus beneath tons of debris. The outcome was a mountain of rubble around Darth Malgus with a portion of debris falling over him but he prevented the debris from crushing him beneath and blew it apart afterwards. The Jedi was was in shock.

---

My bad for claiming the tree to be 50 stories tall in my previous response, but I maintain that this tree was clearly among the larger ones in the vicinity with a trunk so wide that Satele Shan and Darth Malgus were able to climb on top and duel each other while standing on it.



This shot is not showing the entirety of the tree and just this part is about 40 feet long (the upper section of this tree covered with foliage, is not shown in this shot but is momentarily apparent in another angle when the two Force-users climb over the trunk and duel each other). This tree would be about 90 feet tall give or take.

Depends on the version of Kyp quite honestly. I think morals off Darkside Kyp would beat Malgus, but probably not any other version. Then again, thats mostly due to sorcerous hax, but Kyp's raw power backing that isn't something to sneeze at either 

I dunno why the Jaina lighting thing is using to lowball Kyp either. Im going to post the actual transcript of what happened in that encounter

"Don't put that on me," Jaina said slowly. "You really think that I'm on a journey to discover what the Jedi should be?"

"It makes sense," Kyp said. "You've got the talent, the heritage. Maybe there's something to all this talk of destiny."

Jaina picked up the hood again. "Get out."

"Not until you tell me what you've got in mind."

She rose suddenly, in a fluid blur, one hand thrown toward the older Jedi. Dark lightning crackled from her fingers and surrounded him in a shining nimbus. He flew back and struck the wall hard. His eyes narrowed, and the deadly aura disappeared. Jaina's eyes widened in surprise.

"If I can summon it, I can dispel it," he told her. "You're not the only one who took that path."

Jaina drew her lightsaber. "Outside," she snarled.

Kyp gave her a mockingly courtly bow and motioned for her to go first. She shook her head. He shrugged and walked down the ramp, Jaina close behind him. As his feet touched the dock, she leapt into a backward flip and landed in the doorway. She shut off her lightsaber and took a step back. The living portal slammed shut behind her.

She never actually used it on him in combat, she just kind of attacked him out of nowhere and he dissipated the lightning it extremely casually. Not only that but he was almost completely unhurt afterwards. Kyp's own lightning is considerably more impressive, being able to use alter environment to outright oneshot Sith Wyrms, which are heavily resistant to basically all force abilities and laser technology and can literally swim through lava like overgrown eels

Kyp should lose sabers, take force, no idea about all out