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Does Vader scale from Galen Marek/Starkillers best feats? Empty Does Vader scale from Galen Marek/Starkillers best feats?

on April 13th 2020, 9:07 pm
As the title says, does he? Why or why not? If not his best feats what about his more lower end feats like force pushing down that junk Jedi Temple on Raxus Prime.
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on April 13th 2020, 9:11 pm
Partially
Set, The God of Chaos
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on April 13th 2020, 9:20 pm
No:

-Galen stomped Vader in their first fight.
-Galen exhausted himself by defeating a force far superior to Vader prior to their second fight, and thus was not at full strength in the encounter.
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on April 13th 2020, 9:24 pm
> Korriban wrote:Partially
CuckedCurry
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on April 14th 2020, 4:58 am
NotAA3 wrote:-Galen exhausted himself by defeating a force far superior to Vader prior to their second fight, and thus was not at full strength in the encounter.

Bro nothing in the text says that the clones were far superior to TFU2 Vader
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on April 14th 2020, 6:16 am
There’s no evidence he can stomp Vader. And there’s no definitive way to know if Vader scales, especially since Galen is a natural in TK.
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on April 14th 2020, 8:43 am
@CuckedCurry wrote:
NotAA3 wrote:-Galen exhausted himself by defeating a force far superior to Vader prior to their second fight, and thus was not at full strength in the encounter.

Bro nothing in the text says that the clones were far superior to TFU2 Vader

The Force Unleashed 2 Novelization wrote:Starkiller fought as he had never fought before. Clones-his clones, nightmarishly imperfect but powerful all the same-pressed in on all sides. Darth Vader's vile conditioning had a profound hold on their immature psychologies. The desire to kill consumed their thoughts. It was all they radiated. Together they could easily have turned on their creator and overpowered him. Instead they were driven to destroy their own.

Not their own. Just him.
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LOTL

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on April 14th 2020, 9:35 am
Easily have turned on their creator means the "act of turning on their creator" would have been easy for them

Not the act of "overpowering" Vader in the novel
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on April 14th 2020, 9:42 am
Bro that doesn’t even say what you think it says. It says they’re mindless and are not possessing of any conscious thought over than the desire to kill. It is this burning desire to kill that Starkiller initially believes could compel them to “easily” turn on Vader and overpower him, not turn on him and easily overpower him. And even then, Starkiller hasn’t yet faced a Vader that is actively trying to beat him in a duel, as is highlighted mere pages before Vader releases the clones:

“Darth Vader was playing a very obvious game now,” and “Darth Vader attacked again. His blows were swift and economical, and the threat no less than it had ever been, but Starkiller sensed more was to come.”


So, all you have provided me with is a quote that doesn’t say that the clones would easily overpower Vader, and therefore your claim of “beating a force far greater than Vader” is supported by nothing. And then you have the fact that Starkiller has only faced a half arsing Vader that’s not even revealed his true strength yet, and, despite holding back, Vader is still no less of a threat than he’d ever been. For Starkiller to notice that Vader is holding back would imply that Vader is holding back a considerable amount of his power.

Does Vader scale from Galen Marek/Starkillers best feats? 39523600
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on April 14th 2020, 1:47 pm
@CuckedCurry @LOTL

I know me putting things off has been memed to death, but I'll get back to you with an extensive explanation of how the Clones relate to Vader tomorrow - I've got other stuff to do tonight. If I don't, remind me to make sure I get back to you.
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on April 14th 2020, 2:01 pm
Concession accepted
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on April 14th 2020, 2:04 pm
Kek.
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on April 14th 2020, 2:29 pm
"So like, I know that people have been joking about me putting stuff off, but I am hear to announce I am putting stuff off again!"
-HP legend
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on April 14th 2020, 2:49 pm
practically
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on April 14th 2020, 6:14 pm
I agree that the ease of which Vader is ass rammed by clones isn't specified.  Still Galen beats him in the first game, and fights him while exhausted and psychologically imbalanced in II.  The stipulations of which can indeed hinder a powerhouse by 2-3 levels, with Vader being capped at TPM Kenobi level regardless, while I doubt that Galen is.
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on April 15th 2020, 1:23 pm
No, because don't you know that literally every debater on Suspect Insight only looks at Vader's weaknesses and low showings? Nobody here cares about his feats, we only care about the times he get's beat and humiliated by street tiers. His feats are totally disregarded and ignored because of the few times he was beat by fodder characters. For example, the time he killed a Maul clone? Yeah Vader got "stomped" and "ragdolled" in that fight....despite the fact he...uh...won...ig? Oh, and he got KO'd by street tiers, so yeah, disregard his 100's of other feats and the quotes that show he is Faster than the speed of light. Ignore all of that. Vader is sub- Lors Bandeam.
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on April 15th 2020, 2:15 pm
@Marc Spector wrote:No, because don't you know that literally every debater on Suspect Insight only looks at Vader's weaknesses and low showings? Nobody here cares about his feats, we only care about the times he get's beat and humiliated by street tiers. His feats are totally disregarded and ignored because of the few times he was beat by fodder characters. For example, the time he killed a Maul clone? Yeah Vader got "stomped" and "ragdolled" in that fight....despite the fact he...uh...won...ig? Oh, and he got KO'd by street tiers, so yeah, disregard his 100's of other feats and the quotes that show he is Faster than the speed of light. Ignore all of that. Vader is sub- Lors Bandeam.
You’re attempts to mock the people here have been inaccurate and cringe. There’s only one person who’s getting humiliated from the comment you made above, and it’s not any of the people who you were intending to mock, it’s yourself. Ironic.
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on April 15th 2020, 2:50 pm
You think I care? JS, my reputation is dirt at this point. Now I just write what is on my mind. I don't care what anyone else thinks. It can't be ironic if there was never any intention behind it.
Blade_of_Dorin
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on April 15th 2020, 3:39 pm
@Marc Spector wrote:You think I care? JS, my reputation is dirt at this point. Now I just write what is on my mind. I don't care what anyone else thinks. It can't be ironic if there was never any intention behind it.
Bro you have sent like a total of 5 posts on here. Most of the members here probably don't even know who you are.
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on April 15th 2020, 6:20 pm
Hold up, if many are glad to take authors words for the likes of Sidious or Kun or Dooku or Yoda etc...then why not for Vader saying that as of TFU 3, Vader would show that he is indeed more powerful than Galen/Starkiller? Was that not something that was stated?
Marc Spector
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on April 15th 2020, 7:05 pm
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@Zenwolf wrote:Hold up, if many are glad to take authors words for the likes of Sidious or Kun or Dooku or Yoda etc...then why not for Vader saying that as of TFU 3, Vader would show that he is indeed more powerful than Galen/Starkiller? Was that not something that was stated?
That is a good point to bring up, but you should remember that in-universe character statements (that can be false, biased, etc) are not as valid as out of universe statements from source books, 3rd person narrators, authors, etc.
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on April 15th 2020, 7:08 pm
@LOTL

Easily have turned on their creator means the "act of turning on their creator" would have been easy for them

Not the act of "overpowering" Vader in the novel

This point is likewise made by Curry, so I'll address it in my response to him below.

@CuckedCurry

Bro that doesn’t even say what you think it says. It says they’re mindless and are not possessing of any conscious thought over than the desire to kill. It is this burning desire to kill that Starkiller initially believes could compel them to “easily” turn on Vader and overpower him, not turn on him and easily overpower him.

I thought the meaning behind the statement was obvious, but you don't seem to think so, so allow me to clarify for you:

Together they could easily have turned on their creator and overpowered him.

The relevant point is that the "easily" is before the "have". Thus, everything following the "have" - the things that the Clones could have done (i.e. overpower Vader) - is subject to the "easily" part of the quote. If they author had wanted to phrase it to say what you think it says, he would have worded it like so: "Together they could have easily turned on their creator and overpowered him." That limits the "easily" to the "turning on their creator" part - the way it's currently phrased makes the "easily" refer to the whole thing.

I wanted to at least write something tonight - despite being tired - but I'm not feeling up to finishing this rebuttal, so I'll just leave it at this and respond to the rest when I feel like it.


Last edited by NotAA3 on April 15th 2020, 7:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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on April 15th 2020, 7:12 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:Hold up, if many are glad to take authors words for the likes of Sidious or Kun or Dooku or Yoda etc...then why not for Vader saying that as of TFU 3, Vader would show that he is indeed more powerful than Galen/Starkiller? Was that not something that was stated?

The difference being that the other author quotes are clarifying material that was released, meanwhile the quote regarding TFU 3 was from the early concept stages of a game that was never made and contradicts Galen's established superiority within TFU 2.
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on April 15th 2020, 7:29 pm
@NotAA3 How would it contradict "Galen's established superiority within TFU 2" when Vader could've easily grown to be superior to Starkiller by TFU 3?
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on April 15th 2020, 7:35 pm
@SithSauce

How would it contradict "Galen's established superiority within TFU 2" when Vader could've easily grown to be superior to Starkiller by TFU 3?

Because the premise is that it happens early in the game, and the explanation used to reconcile the alleged contradiction between it and TFU 2 is that Vader let himself get beat in the game's finale. This is blatantly wrong - the TFU 2 script establishes SK legitimately beat Vader, and the novel likewise clarifies Vader was going all out. TFU 3 potentially would have retconned those sources, but it never got the chance, and as a result they still stand.

P.S. You still need to respond to me on ROTJ Luke vs Vader.
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