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Jake
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 5:46 pm
Message reputation : 100% (5 votes)
Credit to @Reynard (Ethanion) for finding and recording this




"You can't just go right into the sword fight, so I decided to go back to The Empire Strikes Back of throwing things at each other, even though I knew they were equal to each other, so it was a hopeless gesture and they would've figured that out in two seconds. But for the audience it's nice for them to go through this process of throwing everything around."

George let the Force clash run on for as long as it did to give the audience something to marvel over, but he knew Master Yoda and Count Dooku were equals and they would have figured this out right away, knowing any attack was hopeless. Lucas also says Yoda is "much more powerful" than Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi because he can block lightning with his hands, for what it's worth.

These words go nicely with Animation Director Rob Coleman's comment that Lucas wanted "an amazing clash between two ultimate masters of opposite sides of the Force," Pablo Hidalgo who says "The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched" in Lightsabers 2010 & 2018, and Genndy Tartakovsky, who worked with George on the 2003 Clone Wars series, saying "Dooku is almost as powerful as Yoda himself." I wonder where they got that from? As of Attack of the Clones, Count Dooku is equal to Master Yoda in Force strength.
Latham2000
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 5:55 pm
Nice! And let's not forget that this is a pre prime Dooku, so we have RotS Dooku >> AotC Dooku = AotC Yoda in Force power. So it's possible that RotS Dooku could rag doll AotC Yoda!
Jake
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:03 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Latham2000 wrote:Nice! And let's not forget that this is a pre prime Dooku, so we have RotS Dooku >> AotC Dooku = AotC Yoda in Force power. So it's possible that RotS Dooku could rag doll AotC Yoda!

I wouldn't be so quick to mock this idea  George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power 3344068304

George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Annota17
Latham2000
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:18 pm
RotS Dooku would also rag doll AotC Mace too.
DarthAnt66
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:19 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Great find. Raising Dooku to my #4 Sith, probably.
lorenzo.r.2nd
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:27 pm
cool cool. idk what to think tbh, since they were never actual equals
Reynard (Ethanion)
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:32 pm
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:cool cool. idk what to think tbh, since they were never actual equals
Agreed Lorenzo, Dooku is equal to Yoda after fighting off Anakin and Kenobi.
George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power 1668617588
Vader's Legacy
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:41 pm
Nice Dooku is equal to Yoda in skill at throwing shit
Jake
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:49 pm
> Korriban wrote:Nice Dooku is equal to Yoda in skill at throwing shit

Skill? This isn't a target hitting contest, Dooku and Yoda are trying to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, which Lucas knew they were equal at. Nice cope though.
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:56 pm
"It is obvious this contest cannot be settled by our knowledge of the Force...but by our skills with a lightsaber."








[size=34]knowledge[/size]













Pronunciation  /ˈnäləj/ /ˈnɑlədʒ/ 











NOUN












  • 1Facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

    ‘a thirst for knowledge’
    ‘her considerable knowledge of antiques’
    More example sentences
    Synonyms
  • 2Awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.

    ‘the program had been developed without his knowledge’
    ‘he denied all knowledge of the overnight incidents’
    More example sentences
    Synonyms


-
[size=36]knowledge[/size]
noun

UK 

 /ˈnɒl.ɪdʒ/ US 

 /ˈnɑː.lɪdʒ/

 
B1 [ S or U ]
understanding  of or information  about a subject  that you get by experience  or study , either known  by one person  or by people  generally :
[size=17]Her knowledge of English  grammar  is very extensive .
He has a limited  knowledge of French .
The details  of the scandal  are now common  knowledge (= familiar  to most people ).
She started  to photograph  the documentssafe  in the knowledge that (= knowing  that) she wouldn't be disturbed  for at least an hour .
In this town  there are only a couple  of restaurants  that to my knowledge (= judging  from my personal  experience  and informationserve  good food .
[/size]

It's talking about their abilities and knowledge of the Force, not their raw power. Lucas frequently interchanges between knowledge and power, such as claiming lightning is a feat of greater power (meaning Dooku would be > KFV) when we know it's a matter of knowledge, mastery and control.

If you have equal mastery to someone over the Force (an insane feat for Dooku, considering Yoda's age) and even somewhat comparable power, you're going to be a tough match for them. Just look at someone like Mustafar Kenobi vs MFV.

Not saying this is the only interpretation, but it's one you should definitely bear in mind. As I said, Lucas often confuses knowledge and power.


Last edited by BoD on March 17th 2020, 7:03 pm; edited 3 times in total
Latham2000
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:56 pm
This also proves that TPM/AotC Yoda sucks huge balls in comparison to RotS Yoda, but that doesn't change the fact that AotC Dooku is equally as powerful as AotC Yoda.
Latham2000
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 6:58 pm
Force power is measured by Force knowledge. Mysteries of the Jedi says Yoda's Force knowledge makes him equally as powerful as Sidious.
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:00 pm
@Latham2000 wrote:Force power is measured by Force knowledge. Mysteries of the Jedi says Yoda's Force knowledge makes him equally as powerful as Sidious.

Not necessarily. For example, Talzin could probably defeat a less knowledgeable opponent who's equally/more powerful like KFV through esoteric means and general knowledge, such as her voodoo crap. Doesn't mean she's equally powerful. DE Sidious could also potentially defeat GM Luke because he's more knowledgeable despite being less powerful. Doesn't make them equals in raw power or Sidious > GM Luke in raw power.
Jake
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:05 pm
@BoD "Knowledge of the Force" in this context refers to their combative Force abilities, which is their power... Dooku and Yoda have just fought a Force battle, after which Dooku says it's clear that their "knowledge of the Force" is too close to decide the contest. Is Dooku referring to something separate from combative Force power for no reason? Hidalgo says the two were too evenly matched in Force abilities and Coleman has implied that Lucas believed this on two separate occasions, and here we have George confirming that for us. This is clear cut, please stop with the desperation, you're an embarrassment.
Vader's Legacy
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:11 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Lol, who is the embarrassment when they resort to pleading with thier opponent 

"Please stop"
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:13 pm
"Knowledge of the Force" in this context refers to their combative Force abilities, which is their power... Dooku and Yoda have just fought a Force battle, after which Dooku says it's clear that their "knowledge of the Force" is too close to decide the contest. Is Dooku referring to something separate from combative Force power for no reason?

Lucas literally attributes lightning as being a case of Anakin not knowing how to deal with it.


Then with the blue lightning bolt kind 
of thing that we had from the Emperor that he used against Anakin, the fact that he used them against Yoda but Yoda is not affected by them. That Yoda has come to a level
beyond...Anakin doesn't know how to deal 
with it. Obi-Wan uses his laser sword to stop it. Yoda can actually just use his hand and which makes it much more powerful


He's literally talking about knowing how to counter a technique. 




Hidalgo says the two were too evenly matched in Force abilities

Yes...? Doesn't make Dooku a point blank equal, lol.






and Coleman has implied that Lucas believed this on two separate occasions,


"Dooku is almost as powerful as Yoda himself."


If you bothered to use those things you call eyes and read my post again, I said (and I quote):



If you have equal mastery to someone over the Force (an insane feat for Dooku, considering Yoda's age) and even somewhat comparable power, you're going to be a tough match for them. Just look at someone like Mustafar Kenobi vs MFV.



and here we have Lucas confirming it for us.


*Sigh*



This is clear cut, please stop with the desperation, you're an embarrassment.

Are you nine?

The point Lucas is making is that this is not a one-sided battle of an experienced warrior vs a young, reckless fighter. He literally draws upon 4 different examples during this to substantiate this: Dooku vs Anakin, Dooku vs Obi-Wan, Vader vs ESB Luke, and the Emperor vs Luke. He is talking about knowledge and mastery of the Force, further substantiated by the fact that Lucas wrote the script.


Last edited by BoD on March 17th 2020, 7:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
Blade_of_Dorin
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:14 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:Great find. Raising Dooku to my #4 Sith, probably.
Behind who?  George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power 1668617588
Latham2000
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:16 pm
George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power 3344068304
lorenzo.r.2nd
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:21 pm
well, time to wank Yoda++ lvl Vader using this bitch. Thanks jake. Very nice
Vader's Legacy
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:23 pm
Latham2000
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:27 pm
That meme shouldn't be used on Star Wars debating. It works better in the context of Spider-Man flame wars when people get upset that MCU Spider-Man gets labeled as a little ironman jr.
Jake
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:35 pm
@BoD If you have equal mastery to someone over the Force (an insane feat for Dooku, considering Yoda's age) and even somewhat comparable power, you're going to be a tough match for them. Just look at someone like Mustafar Kenobi vs MFV.

Kenobi is more masterful than Anakin, and the contest was exactly equal. You can use your extra mastery to compensate for someone who has greater power than yourself, as the example you listed proves, but unlike Kenobi, Dooku doesn't have more mastery than Yoda, so why is he equal? Seems clear to me; Dooku is standing next to Yoda in mastery and Force power.

Lucas literally attributes lightning as being a case of Anakin not knowing how to deal with it. He's literally talking about knowing how to counter a technique.

Lucas attributes knowing this technique to being "much more powerful", so again, tracing knowledge back to power, as Dooku does. Lightning is also completely different from telekinesis, you don't need some special info to become more powerful than someone, it's a direct expression of your innate Force ability. If you ever have doubts about this quote, just look at the lengths some will go to try and discredit it. Just pathetic. 

BoD wants you to believe that when Lucas says "Dooku and Yoda are equal" this refers to when Dooku says they're too close in "knowledge of the Force," and that when Dooku says this, he's talking about something completely different from combative Force ability...  after they just had a combative Force contest. 

George says Dooku and Yoda are equals, if he's referring to Dooku saying they are too close in knowledge of the Force to decide a contest, George attributes knowledge of the Force to greater power anyway. 
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 7:36 pm
George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Z
Latham2000
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 8:09 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Peter will cry once he's been kicked out of his apartment for not paying his overdue rent.
lorenzo.r.2nd
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

on March 17th 2020, 8:54 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
@Latham2000 wrote:Peter will cry once he's been kicked out of his apartment for not paying his overdue rent.
Only after the damn door gets fixed
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George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power Empty Re: George Lucas Confirms Count Dooku = Master Yoda in Force Power

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