Zonakin vs rage amped Luke

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:he wasn’t hindered then how did Luke beat him so easily? And how dose Dooku shred someone who is merely 20 percent less than the Emperor?

MasterCilghal wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:he wasn’t hindered then how did Luke beat him so easily? And how dose Dooku shred someone who is merely 20 percent less than the Emperor?

Note that, aside from the fact that a 20% gap in the SW universe is not really quantifiable, Lucas was addressing potential there, saying that while Anakin’s potential was twice that of the emperor, Vader’s was 80%. We know for a fact that Vader was growing during ROTJ, so there’s no reason not to believe he would have increased even further, which we obviously didn’t see. Furthermore, the use of the word “maybe” from Lucas suggests me his point was to simply prove Vader’s state as an inferior to the emperor, not necessarily his actual, precise standing. At least that’s how I interpret it.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker:

I thought it was stated he was?

Sources state the opposite actually, that Vader "brought his full strength and power against the younger man". So no, he wasn't hindered, but fighting at the peak of his abilities.

SWFF 55

SWFF 17

COPL

NEC

RotJ movie: 

The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader 

All imply Vader was both hindered and suppressed. 

If he wasn’t hindered then how did Luke beat him so easily?

‘Learning curve and mega growth made him equal at base, a rage amp turned the tide in his favour.” 

uh, how exactly did he do it so quickly though?

And how dose Dooku shred someone who is merely 20 percent less than the Emperor?

Because that's a useless statistic that's unquantifiable and non definitive. Vader lacks the technique of lifelong masters (Which includes Dooku), has speed inferior to TPM Kenobi and is a match for Ben, somebody massively below ROTS Kenobi, who in turn is fodder to Dooku. Vader's good and can probably hang with TPM Maul, but that's where he caps out.

I just love how you’re trying to use a feat three years before his prime to lowball him. Remember Anakin was fodder to Dooku and three years later he bodied him and Luke was nothing to Vader on besbin but a year later he stomped him.

So yes it makes sense for him to be a lot stronger especially when Fightsaber explains how he got much more skilled between ANH and ESB

and RotJ novel says “Vader’s power had been greater than it ever been” also didn’t Palpatine help Dooku throw Kenobi because he wanted the fight to be between Anakin and Dooku?

Now prove that Vader is lower than Padawan Obi Wan without lowballing.

DarthAnt66 wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker: I can respond back to you here on DC’s behalf but, if you want, we can do an official SS to settle the debate?

IG (Exists) wrote:Zonakin stomped a nigh-Yoda level being. Like stomped a TPM Maul level being. I think it’s clear whose feat is better.

Isv wrote:I personally would like to weigh in, though I don't think that Luke is as skilled as Vader in a classic sense; the quotes do proclaim them being equivalent as of Return of the Jedi. How hindered Vader's skills were and how skilled luke is remains up for debate, but Luke in this state has fully embraced the Dark Side which is a scary scary thing. I would wager this luke is about half of what DE luke would be or perhaps full DS DE Luke level power (though that is just personal speculation) with this in mind I think it's reasonable to say that Zonakin would be more powerful but unable to simply Ragdoll ds luke.

For sabers Anakin is a unit and would definitely press Luke, but if Luke can contend with Vader's strength (stronger than Anakin) he again should be able to hang, combine this with luke's "instantaneous learning in battle" and "replication of his fathers form" which as we know "incorporated elements from all fighting styles even the highest most dangerous levels.", that leads me to believe that Luke can adapt and overcome anything his Father can throw at him here.

Meatpants wrote:

Isv wrote:I personally would like to weigh in, though I don't think that Luke is as skilled as Vader in a classic sense; the quotes do proclaim them being equivalent as of Return of the Jedi. How hindered Vader's skills were and how skilled luke is remains up for debate, but Luke in this state has fully embraced the Dark Side which is a scary scary thing. I would wager this luke is about half of what DE luke would be or perhaps full DS DE Luke level power (though that is just personal speculation) with this in mind I think it's reasonable to say that Zonakin would be more powerful but unable to simply Ragdoll ds luke.

For sabers Anakin is a unit and would definitely press Luke, but if Luke can contend with Vader's strength (stronger than Anakin) he again should be able to hang, combine this with luke's "instantaneous learning in battle" and "replication of his fathers form" which as we know "incorporated elements from all fighting styles even the highest most dangerous levels.", that leads me to believe that Luke can adapt and overcome anything his Father can throw at him here.

1. Vader would be more skilled in a "technical" sense.

2. The DE stuff is just wild speculation.

3. Proof that Vader's total strength (base + augmentation) is > Zonakin's? 

4. Luke may have insane learning in battle, but he also had the advantage of being up against an opponent that couldn't outright tool him in sabers. 

5. Proof that Vader's style is more dangerous than Anakin's? Anakin's has been (iirc) stated as having the least flaws out of any other's in the ROTS movie, including Sidious and Yoda. That in of itself should be sufficient evidence.

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5. Proof that Vader's style is more dangerous than Anakin's? Anakin's has been (iirc) stated as having the least flaws out of any other's in the ROTS movie, including Sidious and Yoda. That in of itself should be sufficient evidence.
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