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O-Siri
O-Siri

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 16th 2019, 12:24 pm
The scaling chain with Anakin's dreaghtnought feats and his subsequent defeats to Dooku's acylytes and Ventress is full of holes and I'm going to explain why. (Note I'm having trouble linking the exact time to the video links, apologies in advance.)

Anakin vs Saato and Trenox






Pretty straight forward, both acolytes ragdoll him with TK, he's fodder to them right? Anyone above them scales from this right? Well that would be if it weren't for the fact that Anakin beats both of them not long after.




Granted it's all game mechanics but their defeats by Anakin is still canon. If Anakin was in their ragdoll range why didn't they knock him out again? Possibly because Anakin was taken off-guard the first time - he's not known for his caution - and more prepared the second time. In any case they obviously weren't able to replicate their showings the second times around so the first shouldn't be used as evidence Anakin is their ragdoll range, unless you want to argue he grew magnitudes more powerful in just a few short hours.

Ventress pins Anakin to the wall.


"But Ventress wasn't defenseless. As Anakin swung his lightsaber, she ducked and used the Force to push him backward, taking him by surprise. He smashed against the wall, dropping his lightsaber.
Ventress held out her right hand and a lightsaber flew into it. She advanced on Anakin, pinning him against the wall.
"Prepare to join with the Force, Jedi!" she cried, igniting her weapon.
Slam! Ahsoka jumped on her back." - The Clone Wars Junior Novel

People have taken this passage of Ventress pinning him to the wall to mean the cause was telekinesis. This is a gross misinterpretation of the text. Frankly I'm amazed so many readers don't see this. First what we have here is a complex sentence a clear cause and effect. The effect in "pinning him to the wall", with the cause being attributed to her "advancing on him". In other words Anakin is being "pinned" because he's unarmed and Ventress advancing on him and in effect pinning him to the wall, kind of like this similar situation:

"They were facing each other, clearly locked in an intense struggle. The prisoner was nearly twice the size of his opponent, but she was clearly the aggressor. The woman was armed with a double-bladed lightsaber, but the prisoner had no weapon as far as Serra could tell. He was backing up warily, his eyes locked on the woman as she approached. She was closing in on him slowly, trying to back him into a corner and cut off his retreat. Just before she had him pinned, however, a bolt of violet lightning shot forth from his palm. The woman countered by catching the bolt with one of her lightsaber blades. It absorbed the energy, emitting the strange, high-pitched hum Serra had heard earlier." Source: Dynasty of Evil

Furthermore in the same novel Anakin is depicted as gaining the advantage on Ventress in the lightsaber fight and only disarmed because he was taken by surprise.

"A renewed energy charged through Anakin, and he heightened his attack, gaining the advantage once more. Then he delivered a surprise kick to the center of the staff, disconnecting the two lightsabers. The weapons flew off in different directions.

But Ventress wasn't defenseless. As Anakin swung his lightsaber, she ducked and used the Force to push him backward, taking him by surprise. He smashed against the wall, dropping his lightsaber."

Now that's not to discredit Ventress's accomplishment, she was winning legit but the prose clearly establishes them as equals. If Anakin can gain the advantage against her in a lightsaber duel then he obviously isn't ragdoll fodder to her.

In conclusion, 9 months ABG Anakin isn't below Saato or Trenox, his subsequent defeat of the acolytes are testament to that fact. Ventress never "pinned" Anakin to the wall with telekinesis, she just Force pushed him when he overextended then pressed her advantage. The scaling chain is non-existent. The end.
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 16th 2019, 12:52 pm
Well said.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 16th 2019, 12:53 pm
Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  1289255181

Good job. Also apparently Gillard notes that Anakin is above Kenobi as of AOTC further disproving the notion that he's ragdoll fodder for random adepts.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 16th 2019, 12:55 pm
Nice work.
trayvon
trayvon

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 16th 2019, 1:54 pm
A lot of words disproving nothing really, lmao.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 16th 2019, 2:01 pm
Good work.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 16th 2019, 2:08 pm
Very good. Another massive hole in the argument is the fact that Anakin, in that same movie( Clone Wars), is able to challenge Dooku to a minor extent (at least from what can be seen in the movie). Needless to say, someone who can challenge Dooku isn’t going to be ragdolled by Ventress.
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Three
Level Three

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 17th 2019, 12:32 am
@Jake wrote:A lot of words disproving nothing really, lmao.
LSDMB
LSDMB

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 17th 2019, 1:25 am
Excellent work Kilius.
The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

on May 17th 2019, 3:57 am
Yeah gotta be honest we were all pretty retarded when we used this a couple years ago, Killius makes some salient points about ragdoll mechanics that are long overdue.

I think it's safe to say that the days of contrived and elaborate ragdolling scaling chains are well and truly done for.
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Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".  Empty Re: Disputing the so called "Anakin scaling chain".

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