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HellfireUnit
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:17 pm
> Rebels versions for both, previous Canon sources etc. can be used
> Takes place in Malachor, instead of Ahsoka, Maul faces Vader
> Fight to death
> All out

Who wins? State detailed reasoning.
IG
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:28 pm
Maul, scales above. Also stylistic advantage.
ILS
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:29 pm
Maul gets the Filoni treatment
HellfireUnit
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:31 pm
@ILS wrote:Maul gets the Filoni treatment
Which means?
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:32 pm
maul gets the hidalgo,witwer,filoni treatment
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:36 pm
cough maul = witwer
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:38 pm
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:cough maul = witwer
if you read the interview you know what i mean
IG
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:47 pm
@The lord of hunger: What Witwer says means nothing. Filoni (and the databanks) have Maul >> Ahsoka, who gave Vader an incredible fight. Maul wins this easily.
BoD
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:54 pm
Maul gets utterly shredded. Vader is a lot more powerful and just as skilled.
IG
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:54 pm
Well, he scales vastly above Ahsoka, this is his game.
BoD
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:55 pm
Source?
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 12:59 pm
Rebels Maul was already confirmed to be killed by Vader in the scrapped fight and Vader would then have moved on to Ahsoka within an hour long episode (Vader only appears in the last half an hour or so), so...
Corvinus
Corvinus

Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 1:37 pm
Rebels Maul lost to a vastly out of shape Obi-Wan. Vader comfortably takes him.
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 1:42 pm
@Corvinus wrote:Rebels Maul lost to a vastly out of shape Obi-Wan. Vader comfortably takes him.
Andi Gutierrez: "The actual duel between the two Masters is very short, like a samurai film. How did you come to the conclusion that it had to be done this way?"
Carrie Beck: "We never entered into this story trying to think about how satisfying that battle should be, it really became about what was the genuine intention of this moment and knowing where these two men are at this point in their lives. I think it's important for us, even though on the timeline we aren't to A New Hope yet, to think about what we know of Obi-Wan in that movie and work backwards in some way, to make sure that the character's progression charts appropriately."
Henry Gilroy: "When you fight someone many times, and have faced off, you kinda know each other's moves, so if you think about it, the buildup to this confrontation and the actual lightsabers hitting each other is actually longer cause they're basically playing it out in their heads, and the amazing thing is the move that Maul tries after the initial exchange, he actually attempts the move that killed Qui-Gon Jinn. He tries to basically bash him with the hilt."
Dave Filoni: "If you talk to a lot of people that sword fight, they'll tell you people that are very good don't have long fights. It's very quick. And so that scene, it's an homage to the Seventh Samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see another prolonged lightsaber fight but I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the character's don't have growth. Yes, it's exciting as an audience member but it's not a really believable thing. The story telling has to evolve."

Also, Ben >>>> ROTS Kenobi in canon. The amount of horseshit in your post amazes me. 

Maul is capable of stomping a group of Inquisitors, a group that gave Ahsoka + Kanan trouble. He did this while holding back and pretending to be weak so that he could garner sympathy. Ahsoka herself believes Maul to be the strongest, as Maul states "It's only logical" in reference to taking Ezra with himself. This implies he's the most powerful as Ezra is the weakest. Furthermore, the difference in power is so dramatic that Ahsoka and Kanan trust Maul with Ezra.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 1:46 pm
IG (Exists) wrote:@The lord of hunger: What Witwer says means nothing. Filoni (and the databanks) have Maul >> Ahsoka, who gave Vader an incredible fight. Maul wins this easily.
filoni have vader>>maul so...
IG
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 1:48 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:@The lord of hunger: What Witwer says means nothing. Filoni (and the databanks) have Maul >> Ahsoka, who gave Vader an incredible fight. Maul wins this easily.
filoni have vader>>maul so...
Where? Contrast Ahsoka and Maul's fight with the Inquisitors, Maul is >>. Then add the fact that against Vader, Ahsoka was "heartbroken" and therefore hindered. Then add the fact that Vader knew her training style and had an advantage because of it, and then add the fact that Ahsoka nearly won. It's simple logic.
Corvinus
Corvinus

Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 2:00 pm
IG (Exists) wrote:
@Corvinus wrote:Rebels Maul lost to a vastly out of shape Obi-Wan. Vader comfortably takes him.
Andi Gutierrez: "The actual duel between the two Masters is very short, like a samurai film. How did you come to the conclusion that it had to be done this way?"
Carrie Beck: "We never entered into this story trying to think about how satisfying that battle should be, it really became about what was the genuine intention of this moment and knowing where these two men are at this point in their lives. I think it's important for us, even though on the timeline we aren't to A New Hope yet, to think about what we know of Obi-Wan in that movie and work backwards in some way, to make sure that the character's progression charts appropriately."
Henry Gilroy: "When you fight someone many times, and have faced off, you kinda know each other's moves, so if you think about it, the buildup to this confrontation and the actual lightsabers hitting each other is actually longer cause they're basically playing it out in their heads, and the amazing thing is the move that Maul tries after the initial exchange, he actually attempts the move that killed Qui-Gon Jinn. He tries to basically bash him with the hilt."
Dave Filoni: "If you talk to a lot of people that sword fight, they'll tell you people that are very good don't have long fights. It's very quick. And so that scene, it's an homage to the Seventh Samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see another prolonged lightsaber fight but I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the character's don't have growth. Yes, it's exciting as an audience member but it's not a really believable thing. The story telling has to evolve."

Also, Ben >>>> ROTS Kenobi in canon. The amount of horseshit in your post amazes me. 

Maul is capable of stomping a group of Inquisitors, a group that gave Ahsoka + Kanan trouble. He did this while holding back and pretending to be weak so that he could garner sympathy. Ahsoka herself believes Maul to be the strongest, as Maul states "It's only logical" in reference to taking Ezra with himself. This implies he's the most powerful as Ezra is the weakest. Furthermore, the difference in power is so dramatic that Ahsoka and Kanan trust Maul with Ezra.



The reasoning the writers gave for the duel playing out that way is horseshit. What other duels in Star Wars have played out that way? It's an OOU duelling style and that should be taken into consideration.


Along with that, they made Ben literally unbeatable in this specific situation and contrary to their claims, didn't scale him with ANH Ben.
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 2:01 pm
@Corvinus If you're going to deny actual evidence, then concession accepted.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 2:01 pm
IG (Exists) wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:@The lord of hunger: What Witwer says means nothing. Filoni (and the databanks) have Maul >> Ahsoka, who gave Vader an incredible fight. Maul wins this easily.
filoni have vader>>maul so...
Where? Contrast Ahsoka and Maul's fight with the Inquisitors, Maul is >>. Then add the fact that against Vader, Ahsoka was "heartbroken" and therefore hindered. Then add the fact that Vader knew her training style and had an advantage because of it, and then add the fact that Ahsoka nearly won. It's simple logic.
script of the fight filoni made long ago:
“Originally Maul perished in the season two finale where he returned. It was a one-off appearance... So originally in that episode you were gonna get Vader fighting Maul, Vader would have killed Maul, and then fought Ahsoka... 
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 2:02 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:@The lord of hunger: What Witwer says means nothing. Filoni (and the databanks) have Maul >> Ahsoka, who gave Vader an incredible fight. Maul wins this easily.
filoni have vader>>maul so...
Where? Contrast Ahsoka and Maul's fight with the Inquisitors, Maul is >>. Then add the fact that against Vader, Ahsoka was "heartbroken" and therefore hindered. Then add the fact that Vader knew her training style and had an advantage because of it, and then add the fact that Ahsoka nearly won. It's simple logic.
script of the fight filoni made long ago:
“Originally Maul perished in the season two finale where he returned. It was a one-off appearance... So originally in that episode you were gonna get Vader fighting Maul, Vader would have killed Maul, and then fought Ahsoka... 
If a scrapped script is your evidence, might as well concede Ben > Vader.
Corvinus
Corvinus

Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 2:04 pm
IG (Exists) wrote:@Corvinus If you're going to deny actual evidence, then concession accepted.


Author comments in interviews aren't actually canon.
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 2:05 pm
@Corvinus wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:@Corvinus If you're going to deny actual evidence, then concession accepted.


Author comments in interviews aren't actually canon.
Filoni has authority equal to Lucas in the scenario of episodes he's directed in canon. Concession Accepted once more.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 2:06 pm
IG (Exists) wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:@The lord of hunger: What Witwer says means nothing. Filoni (and the databanks) have Maul >> Ahsoka, who gave Vader an incredible fight. Maul wins this easily.
filoni have vader>>maul so...
Where? Contrast Ahsoka and Maul's fight with the Inquisitors, Maul is >>. Then add the fact that against Vader, Ahsoka was "heartbroken" and therefore hindered. Then add the fact that Vader knew her training style and had an advantage because of it, and then add the fact that Ahsoka nearly won. It's simple logic.
script of the fight filoni made long ago:
“Originally Maul perished in the season two finale where he returned. It was a one-off appearance... So originally in that episode you were gonna get Vader fighting Maul, Vader would have killed Maul, and then fought Ahsoka... 
If a scrapped script is your evidence, might as well concede Ben > Vader.
well yes and no
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 2:07 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:@The lord of hunger: What Witwer says means nothing. Filoni (and the databanks) have Maul >> Ahsoka, who gave Vader an incredible fight. Maul wins this easily.
filoni have vader>>maul so...
Where? Contrast Ahsoka and Maul's fight with the Inquisitors, Maul is >>. Then add the fact that against Vader, Ahsoka was "heartbroken" and therefore hindered. Then add the fact that Vader knew her training style and had an advantage because of it, and then add the fact that Ahsoka nearly won. It's simple logic.
script of the fight filoni made long ago:
“Originally Maul perished in the season two finale where he returned. It was a one-off appearance... So originally in that episode you were gonna get Vader fighting Maul, Vader would have killed Maul, and then fought Ahsoka... 
If a scrapped script is your evidence, might as well concede Ben > Vader.
well yes and no
Your evidence holds no weight, it contradicts what's in the actual appearance. If Vader > Maul, then Kenobi > Vader.

And that doesn't say Maul would've lost a straight fight, it only says he'd die (implying Vader's plot armor).
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

on January 17th 2020, 2:11 pm
IG (Exists) wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
IG (Exists) wrote:@The lord of hunger: What Witwer says means nothing. Filoni (and the databanks) have Maul >> Ahsoka, who gave Vader an incredible fight. Maul wins this easily.
filoni have vader>>maul so...
Where? Contrast Ahsoka and Maul's fight with the Inquisitors, Maul is >>. Then add the fact that against Vader, Ahsoka was "heartbroken" and therefore hindered. Then add the fact that Vader knew her training style and had an advantage because of it, and then add the fact that Ahsoka nearly won. It's simple logic.
script of the fight filoni made long ago:
“Originally Maul perished in the season two finale where he returned. It was a one-off appearance... So originally in that episode you were gonna get Vader fighting Maul, Vader would have killed Maul, and then fought Ahsoka... 
If a scrapped script is your evidence, might as well concede Ben > Vader.
well yes and no
Your evidence holds no weight, it contradicts what's in the actual appearance. If Vader > Maul, then Kenobi > Vader.

And that doesn't say Maul would've lost a straight fight, it only says he'd die (implying Vader's plot armor).
there is more evidence that proves vader >>maul.... 
I am the first to restore the Sith to their rightful place in the galaxy. As we planned, the Jedi thought the Sith gone, we were so inconsequential. The pomp of the Jedi, was insufferable. I set the galaxy aflame, my apprentice. I've purged all weakness and impurity. From the ashes, we would have a new age. I learned from the mistakes of my forebears. I used those who were not Sith to achieve my aims.
Any my apprentices ? Darth Maul was a loss, but Darth Tyranus... He was a proton torpedo. He served his purpose and was gone... I had a superior candidate in mind.
--
In that long night, with their technology, we remade you. In this way, we saved the Empire. I would have the apprentice I required.
-- Darth Vader 20


also any canon source that says ben>vader?
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Maul versus Darth Vader Empty Re: Maul versus Darth Vader

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