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CuckedCurry
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 1:00 pm
THESITHMASTER
DARK-SITH123
KBROSKYWALKER (mindless drone incarnate)
WOLLFMYTH
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 1:00 pm
@IG (Exists) wrote:It’s not vague, explicitly it’s stated he’s 1000x amped and still Vader struggles. Again I ask, would you be willing to debate this?
im already debated it on the vine no need to do it here also im heavily occupied on the dc forum tho 

pd: like i said that novel is terrible as a argument richard already clarify that
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 1:01 pm
Maks Leem wrote:THESITHMASTER
DARK-SITH123
KBROSKYWALKER (mindless drone incarnate)
WOLLFMYTH 
i miss wolf....
IG (Exists)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 1:02 pm
I meant formally debate it, in an SS (CaV). Richard’s arguments were all fodder.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 1:04 pm
@IG (Exists) wrote:I meant formally debate it, in an SS (CaV). Richard’s arguments were all fodder.
not enough time dude im already going to school next week and i need to prepare myself if not i will karked up
IG (Exists)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 1:06 pm
Buddy, most of us ago to school (or college) on a daily basis lmao. You have unlimited time between posts too.
KingofBlades
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 1:09 pm
would a mod please remove the random banter from this thread
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 1:11 pm
@IG (Exists) wrote:Buddy, most of us ago to school (or college) on a daily basis lmao. You have unlimited time between posts too
need to study hard especially algebra that take time and practice... also lol this is a complete different topic a mod should remove this filler banter
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 1:18 pm
@KingofBlades wrote:would a mod please remove the random banter from this thread
i agree azronger remove this daily basis imao
DC77 (Reborn)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 8:57 pm
@IG (Exists):

Your entire rebuttal can be refuted by pointing out that it's kriff.

There's this word I think you should learn: it's called irony. Multiple times throughout this post you displayed your own ignorance regarding not only the point I was trying to make, but also the passages you were citing to oppose my view.

First off:

For one, Vitiate was empowered by a massive nexus, so powerful that 4000 years later, Luke Skywalker during FOTJ was significantly hindered by it, whereas Revan was either hindered by said nexus, or more or less at base.

Learn to read. The nexus present has absolutely no relevance to the comparison drawn, that being Vitiate's domination of Revan in a conventional clash of power versus his inability to affect the latter with telepathy. The nexus was present during both of these feats, ergo the comparison holds. I'm not here to debate the fight with you, I'm here to question the authenticity and reliability of comparing characters via their telepathic performances.

Vitiate lets loose a massive barrage of charged lightning, described to be "infinitely more powerful" than that of Nyriss, Revan negates a vast majority of it, transforming a barrage of lightning that was "infinitely more powerful" than the kind that could instantaneously ash a Meetra++ being, making it so that he only receives third-degree burns.

The mitigation you're describing only proves how vast the disparity between Revan and Meetra is, it does nothing to prove relativity between the two combatants being discussed. Relativity would be Yoda and Sidious's clash at the end of ROTS, not what we have here, which is Revan being nigh instantly overwhelmed by Vitiate's lightning. The other points are things I've subscribed too, and help my argument more than hinder it.

As for your case, all of it revolves around Jacen scaling past Kyp Durron, which would be interesting, but I have a quote that directly contradicts it.

This concept may seem foreign to you but I want you to give it a shot anyway. It's called reading. If you'd actually bothered to look at the quote you just cited it becomes extremely clear that any percieved contradiction is nothing more than a complete fabrication on your part. This interview is about Jacen's morality, and how he loses touch with it throughout the series as he refuses to accept the consequences caused by his actions. There's an important distinction between that and Jacen's opinion of his abilities, which, per Karen, is not misplaced, something that has escaped your notice completely. You're deliberately arguing in bad faith by trying to force a contradiction when there isn't one. My points stand, Jacen kriffs on Malak.

@KingofBlades Due to his lack of knowledge concerning sorcery I think it's likely Plagueis is overestimating the ancients feats, and his placement of them at that level is probably inaccurate, especially given Legends have more than likely exaggerated them to a significant degree. Regardless you've provided no rationale for why scaling above the Banites is above what has been provided for Caedus on the previous page.
BoD
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 9:11 pm
Jesus, this novel Revan wank...
DarthAnt66
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 9:41 pm
@BreakofDawn: Down for a novel Revan debate?
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 9:53 pm
BreakofDawn wrote:Jesus, this novel Revan wank...
You dont see yet the malak wank that is far worse....  Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 1019854026
IG (Exists)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 30th 2019, 11:40 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@DC77 (Reborn) wrote:There's this word I think you should learn: it's called irony. Multiple times throughout this post you displayed your own ignorance regarding not only the point I was trying to make, but also the passages you were citing to oppose my view.

First off:

Learn to read. The nexus present has absolutely no relevance to the comparison drawn, that being Vitiate's domination of Revan in a conventional clash of power versus his inability to affect the latter with telepathy. The nexus was present during both of these feats, ergo the comparison holds. I'm not here to debate the fight with you, I'm here to question the authenticity and reliability of comparing characters via telepathy.

The mitigation you're describing only proves how vast the disparity between Revan and Meetra is, it does nothing to prove relativity between the two combatants being discussed. Relativity would be Yoda and Sidious's clash at the end of ROTS, not what we have here, which is Revan being nigh instantly overwhelmed by Vitiate's lightning. The other points are things I've subscribed too, and help my argument more than hinder it.

I know exactly what you're saying lmao. To begin, Vitiate being able to overwhelm Revan with charged lightning is nothing new. For example, as Sidious increased the intensity of his lightning against Mace Windu (granted Mace was amped, but this is a situation with an amp too, so it's irrelevant), Mace was overwhelmed, noting that Sidious' (not as charged as Vitiate's) lightning was "too much for Vaapad". Before this, Mace was able to stalemate Sidious, if not outright best him. 

Revan being "nigh-instantaneously overwhelmed" by Vitiate is something that makes me think that you should do exactly what you've suggested to me at this stage, read. Within seconds, Revan is able to get up from this assault. Vitiate charges his lightning, which clearly has a massive impact, given what happened to Mace against Sidious. 

@DC77 (Reborn) wrote:This concept may seem foreign to you but I want you to give it a shot anyway. It's called reading. If you'd actually bothered to look at the quote you just cited it becomes extremely clear that any contradiction is completely fabricated. This interview is about Jacen's morality, and how he loses touch with it throughout the series as he refuses to accept the consequences caused by his actions. There's an important distinction between that and Jacen's opinion of his abilities, which, per Karen, is not misplaced, something that has escaped your notice. You're deliberately arguing in bad faith by trying to force a contradiction when there isn't one. My points stand, Jacen kriff on Malak.
Pot, Kettle, Black. Despite the article being about Jacen's morality, his "excessively high opinion" of himself is still withstanding. I don't see why said opinion of himself differs from his abilities to his (what, morality?). His high opinion of himself causes him to refuse to accept the consequences to his actions, yes, but there's nothing that limits the quote from referring to his opinion of his own abilities either. 

The quote you yourself supplies also refers to Jacen's morality in a way, so does it really matter if the quote I've supplied ties back to  "How does a clever, morally aware man go down the path that Jacen does? By self-delusion and self- justification. Jacen already has a high opinion of his powers and judgment, and that’s not misplaced: the man is good at his work."

Traviss explicitly states that Jacen is good at his work, his morality gets screwed over because he deludes himself and justifies all of his actions, and he's good at what he does, which leads to his high opinion of himself. Both quotes say that Jacen has a high opinion of himself, but one clarifies that it's "excessively high", which is defined as "to a greater degree or in greater amounts than is necessary, normal, or desirable"


Beyond this, Jacen's faith in his abilities not being misplaced doesn't necessarily mean that he's correct.  I don't see why his opinion not being "(of an emotion) directed unwisely or to an inappropriate object." means that he's correct about them. Jacen was described as having a "boy's expression of anger", and this is clearly an emotional response. Synonyms for misplaced are misguided, erroneous, and unsound, and Jacen can be (not) misguided, etc, but that doesn't mean he's correct. There's a basis in fact to part of this, Jacen is definitely Council tier, he's probably beyond all of them but Luke in terms of combat as well, but that doesn't necessarily translate to his raw power being > than that of Kyp. Given that Jacen has shown kriff in power that approaches Kyp, I'd hesitate to take this seriously.

 

@DC77 (Reborn)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 12:05 am
@IG (Exists):

I know exactly what you're saying lmao.

That's clearly not the case, otherwise you wouldn't have brought up an irrelevant point about a nexus amp only to immediately concede on it.

To begin, Vitiate being able to overwhelm Revan with charged lightning is nothing new. For example, as Sidious increased the intensity of his lightning against Mace Windu (granted Mace was amped, but this is a situation with an amp too, so it's irrelevant), Mace was overwhelmed, noting that Sidious' (not as charged as Vitiate's) lightning was "too much for Vaapad". Before this, Mace was able to stalemate Sidious, if not outright best him.

The distinction being Mace was overwhelmed after an extended contest between him in Sheev in force power, in stark contrast to Revan being roasted on the floor instantly.

Revan being "nigh-instantaneously overwhelmed" by Vitiate is something that makes me think that you should do exactly what you've suggested to me at this stage, read. Within seconds, Revan is able to get up from this assault.

Revan's subsequent recovery is irrelevant to the comparison itself.

Despite the article being about Jacen's morality, his "excessively high opinion" of himself is still withstanding. I don't see why said opinion of himself differs from his abilities to his (what, morality?).

The line itself is regarding Jacen's opinion of his own fallibility, as is made abundantly clear by looking at the wider context of the statement. No mention is made of his abilities, just his own actions and the delusion and self justification that plagues them.

The quote you yourself supplies also refers to Jacen's morality in a way, so does it really matter if the quote I've supplied ties back to

The difference is the quote you posted makes no reference of Jacen's abilities, unlike mine. We don't try to force a contradiction where there isn't any, we default to presuming the statement is referring to the larger context of the paragraph, which in this case is Jacen's morality.

His high opinion of himself causes him to refuse to accept the consequences to his actions, yes, but there's nothing that limits the quote from referring to his opinion of his own abilities either.

What you're suggesting is that we simply presume the quote is referring to something it never mentions, rather than what it does. How does that make the slightest bit of sense?

Beyond this, Jacen's faith in his abilities not being misplaced doesn't necessarily mean that he's correct.

The definition of misplaced:

Google wrote:Not appropriate or correct in the circumstances.

So, Jacen's opinion isn't incorrect. I wonder what that means...

Jacen was described as having a "boy's expression of anger", and this is clearly an emotional response.

That's Anakin, not Jacen. Have you read the book?

This response, like its predecessor, was meme tier.
IG (Exists)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 7:29 am
I thought we were friends DC, ouch. Imma concede this one, I’m outmatched here.
CuckedCurry
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 7:57 am
Coward
IG (Exists)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 8:04 am
Maks Leem wrote:Coward
Do you feel good about yourself, talking down to a 14 year old?
CuckedCurry
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 8:07 am
I am Maks Leem. At least you bothered to voice an argument. I am an eternally powerful and don’t need to voice ‘arguments’ you see.


Last edited by Maks Leem on December 31st 2019, 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
DC77 (Reborn)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 8:51 am
Maks Leem wrote:I am a coward, not you. You at least bothered to voice an argument, while I am an eternally meek loser.

Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 1019854026
The Witness
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 10:50 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@IG (Exists) wrote:
Maks Leem wrote:Coward
Do you feel good about yourself, talking down to a 14 year old?
Who cares, I was 9 years old and took beatings from my Dad deal with it
IG (Exists)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 10:53 am
I was kidding... Jesus Christ.
The Witness
The Witness

Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 11:13 am
Lol its ok
IG (Exists)
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Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus - Page 3 Empty Re: Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

on December 31st 2019, 11:19 am
I wasn’t apologizing...
Gueliston
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on December 31st 2019, 11:29 am
Forgive me for the condescendence for Malak fans, but what has he done to suggest he could take someone on Jacen’s caliber? afaik he has no feats other than getting beat multiple times in a row massively amped against a hindered KOTOR Revan and getting comfortably beaten (to say the least) by Mandalore the Ultimate.
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