Starkiller vs ROTJ Luke

Such as?

Agreed, barring the bad debating skill. That I don't have multiplied by 11, but divided by 1000.

Minus 1000 divided by 1000 is minus 1, ergo you have more bad debating skill than LORENZO.

My quotes have these 'size' things around them that i cant get rid of for some reason, so, sorry about that. if u could tell me how to take that kriff off, i would be most grateful.

1) idk if u can read or not, but i did say ill take the L since i dont like ignorance, didnt i? should i reword that in way u can understand? its pretty simple my guy.


2) wow, now THAT is just illegal, isnt it? its IMPOSSIBLE for any living being to be above Sidious in anything. I would love to see a reason as to why Vader is not as skilled as Sidious that doenst involve agility, but ok. if u can, go right ahead. ill say some things first tho:

Luke matching him doenst mean anything when u dont even know how skilled Luke is in the first place. he could in fact be as skilled as sheev is now. he did have a year to grow while being under intense training to fight the most skilled duelist alive. Is he not skilled now because that fighter named Vader or something? i have also addressed the advantages Luke had in that fight in one of my blogs before too. Im 100% sure that u will dismiss this by saying "hur dur 30 billion statements say they were evenly matched and were equals in the force", but nothing new.

A more skilled Luke losing to DE sheev yet again doenst mean kriff here, as that Sidious is faster, stronger, smarter, has better precog, is in a MUCH more fit body, and has seen Luke fight before, while Luke got the short stick in every previously mentioned categories in that fight. One can easily tell that Sheev was beating him pretty easily. a fight between evenly matched fighters doenst go like that unless the overall power difference between the two is just too big.

Vader being semi matched by SK also means nothing, as yet again, u cant even disprove of the fact that SK is less skilled than Sidious. Vader was trained by sidious, and Vader trained SK since he was 6 years old, or so, so even the most basic things that sidious and vader know about are already in SK's possession, then he had a decade plus to grow, being trained by Proxy, a droid programmed by Vader himself. not to mention SK besting the extremely realistic imitation that Proxy can pull off of Anakin and Obi Wan, made by Vader himself. but NO. now that is just is crazy, incredulous. the idea of SK being as skilled as either of them, if not more so, even though he had much more training than Anakin ever did, while he was said to be one of the most potentially powerful people in star wars which we know affects how skilled one is (for some reason), is just ludicrous. that could NEVER happen. 

And having an accolade that makes u better than either Yoda or Sidious doenst instantaneously make it a hyperbole. Otherwise, they would be lies, but they arent, so we have: u disagreeing because _blank_ OR the statement is legit and u just dont like its implications. im sure u already know which one im gonna pick, correct? 

Last but not least, Vader as of 18 BBY has already been said to be skilled enough to possibly even kill Mace Windu (backed up by the fact that Vader can stomp Kar Vastor in a fight), while being more skilled than Grievous. Him stomping Aurra Sing, who could give Qui Gon some trouble before, in 19 BBY; him fighting 8 jedi, and killing the most skilled one casually one month after Mustafar; him destroying Ferus Olin (who was as skilled as AOTC Anakin, now probably even more) in 19 BBY; him being better than Roan Shryne (whose strength has been called extreme, and who has been put in the same level as people like AOTC Obi Wan, Kit Fisto, Jedi Dooku, Mace Windu, etc, as far as reputation go); him stomping Proxy extremely easily in TFU while he was put off guard by Obi Wan's face; him being as formidable as Sidious himself in ANH; him fodderizing droids that were likely more deadly/overall better than magna guards in ANH; him being far more formidable by ESB; him being even more skilled, deadly, and invincible by ROTJ; him being capable of stomping lumiya; All of those things kinda support him being as skilled as Sidious and Yoda, if not more.

"You knew Old Republic Jedi?"
"Met a few. Only really knew one. Dead now, of course."
"Of course."
"Way I heard it, Vader killed him personally."
Luke let his eyes close. "Vader? You're sure?"
"Had to be. Nobody but Vader would have had a chance." - Luke Skywalker And The Shadows Of Mindor




[size=14]“Normally, I’d agree,” Shryne cut in. “But someone new has been added to the mix. A Lord Vader.” When Garrulan didn’t react to the name, he continued. “A sort of black-armored version of Grievous, only more dangerous, and apparently in charge of doing Palpatine’s dirty work.” - Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth Vader
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[size=14]It didn't matter. There was no doubt in Nick's mind that, were Kar Vastor somehow to be pitted against Darth Vader, the feral Balawai renegade wouldn't stand a chance. - Coruscant Nights I: Jedi Twilight
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[size=14][i][size=14]As though from a position high above, he watched his Master spin around to face Obi-Wan Kenobi.
The Dark Lord froze. In that moment of hesitation the long-dead Jedi Master attacked, his face a mask of determination. At the very last moment Vader parried, then parried again. He took a step backward, toward the cliff’s edge, and then rallied. With two sweeping strokes, so fast they blurred in the cold air, he disarmed Kenobi and slashed him in half. [/size][/i][/size][i][size=13]- The Force Unleashed[/size][/i]




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[i][size=13][i][size=14][size=14][b][i][size=14]Her fist never made contact. Raising his right hand and bringing it around in a swift arc, Vader blocked the blow and sent the body behind it flying across the room. As she flew, a startled but still wholly self-aware Sing tucked and rolled. She hit the opposite wall hard, bounced off, landed on her feet, and immediately came at him again.
“The reflexes of an animal,” Vader murmured. His lightsaber hung at his waist. He ignored it, his fingers going nowhere near the weapon. “That’s what the Empire needs: a few more well-trained, domesticated animals.”
“Domesticated? I’ll show you who’s domesticated!” She leapt high, kicking out, and in midthrust somehow bent sideways to kick harder with her other leg.
In a movement preternaturally fast, but which somehow looked almost languid, Vader ducked, reached up, and with one gloved hand lightly tapped her in the middle of her back. A serious thrust catching her in that position could have broken her spine. The Dark Lord’s touch was more of a caress. He was letting her know what he could have done.
Landing in a crouch, a feral expression on her face, she raced at him again, low this time. Her speed was startling: a droid would have been hard-pressed to match her acceleration. She dropped low to the floor and swung her right leg around in a powerful circle sweep. Her intent was to take his legs out from under him. - Coruscant Nights II: Street Of Shadows 
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[i][size=13][i][size=14][size=14][b][i][size=14][b][i][size=14]Once Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, the black-cloaked Darth Sidious has fulfilled his masterful plan and taken control of the entire galaxy, with the equally formidable Dark Lord of the Sith by his side. [i][size=14]- Galactic Files: Emperor Palpatine
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He left his lightsaber clipped to his belt. Ordinarily he would have used it to practice on the dueling droids that had been specially designed and constructed to test his mettle. Programmed with the knowledge and skills of a dozen different martial artists, and armed with deadly cutting or impact weapons, they were formidable opponents indeed, and had been an integral part of Sith training since time immemorial. But not everything was about the lightsaber. There were other attributes, other weapons in his arsenal, that needed exercising as well. - Death Star




[size=14]Within the armoed forces Vader now holds absolute power over the higher Imperial officers who scorned him earlier in his career. This situation reflects Vader's greater mastery over himself and over the Force in the time since the Battle of Yavin, an improvement that is readily apparent in his lightsaber style during the duel with Luke Skywalker on Bespin. Vader has largely freed himself of pain through the Force in the years since the Battle of Yavin and, by practice with living opponents both willing and unwilling, he has advanced his lightsaber technique. Baron Orman Tagge serves as testament to Vader's technique by this era, precisely blinded in both eyes by Vader's blade in a duel. Vader is thus a far more formidable foe on Bespin than he was against Ben Kenobi on the Death Star. - Insider #62
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[size=14][i][size=14][b]Darth Vader held his lightsaber firmly, wrists locked, and watched the killer droid circle to its left. The droid was a new model, one of a dozen identical units constructed to his personal specifications. Like Vader, it also held a lightsaber. It was tall, spindly, looked something like the general-purpose Asps to be found all over the Empire, but with a number of special modifications. The unit was faster than an ordinary man, stronger, programmed with the knowledge of a hundred sword masters and a dozen different fighting styles. Against a normal person, the droid would be unbeatable and deadly-The droid stepped in fast and cut at Vader's head. Vader blocked, and the droid chopped again, circling the humming blade in a second cut at Vader's side. Fast, but again a block-The droid's third attack came from the opposite side as its blade flashed in a large half circle-Vader parried and riposted, angling a slash at thedroid's head - The droid blocked and slid back a meter, out of range, blade held over its head, point angled down.
The slight ache in Vader's shoulder where Luke had cut through his armor during their fight was definitely better. He hardly felt any soreness at all with that series. He moved in, swung a feint at the droid's neck, twisted his wrists, and pivoted the lightsaber for a sec-ond feint at the same side, then a third feint, a jab at the midsection. The droid stepped back and crossblocked the finalfeint-Vader V-stepped to his left, cocked his blade over hisleft shoulder, and hacked forty-five degrees at the base of the metal neck-The droid's block was a quarter second slow. Strong as it was, it was not strong enough to offset the power and momentum of Vader's strike.
The blades met, hissed and sparked, but Vader's sword shoved the droid's blade to the side. It tried to backpedal-Too late. The lightsaber hit midway between the droid's neck and shoulder joint, sheared through the exoframe and halfway through the chest. Circuitrysparked, shorted out. Sparks and acrid smoke erupted from the droid's body. It dropped the lightsaber as its hand controls died. Fell to its knees. Vader cocked the weapon over his right shoulderand swung in a flat horizontal arc-The lightsaber sliced through the droid's neck and took its head off. The head fell, bounced, and the droid's decapitated body fell backward.
Vader stood over the downed droid. Soon he would have to order another dozen of them produced-this was the eighth one of the originals; he had but four left. And the next batch would need to be improved. It was getting too easy. - Shadows Of The Empire
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[size=14][b][i][size=14][b][i][size=14]Darth Vader presses forward... strong, skillful, sure! Exhibiting more deadly invincibility than ever! [i][size=14]- Return of the Jedi Comic
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[size=14][b][i][size=14][b][i][size=14][i][size=14][b][i][size=14]Luke frowned over that one. "Lady has to be Lumiya. She used to style herself the Dark Lady of the Sith ... after Emperor Palpatine and my father were no longer around to slap her down for presumption." - Legacy of the Force: Exile
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sorry for this long ass post.

3) Idk what ur asking here. U say u know it never happened, then u ask for when it happened?

A) if u can find an instance in which what u just said is true when being put into action by two evenly skilled duelists, then sure, why not. until then, my cherry picking stands, because, cherry picking or not, they are still true, and they still represent what happens when u have 1 blade vs 2 blades.

and him having two lightsabers at all times changes what exactly? the reason i ignored is because it seemed pretty illogical to me lol

B) going back and forth as equals doenst mean anything, does it? Lemme explain this first, before u think im more nerf herder than u think i am:

Going back and forth can happen between anybody. it does make them equals instantaneously. it means they were going back and forth as equals. period. it does not mean SK = Vader. if u had a statement that said "dooku and yoda were going back and forth as equals", even though we know that Yoda is more an not his equal, would u still say that they are indeed equals? cuz this is whats happening here and now. u say u know a lot about the plot of TFU 1 and 2? im sure u know of the implications that Vader was holding back the entire time, from start to end, even his loss being a potential 'fake loss'. 


gotta love it when they attack the grammar lol

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Such as?

Meditation.

^ Or channelling them into something productive, like writing, sports, etc.

i ask myself why are people mean? im new ): in my stance on space battle forums i debate more dc vs marvel or videogame forums im still learning about one of my favorite franchises today cuz its very interesting to debate :3

The lord of hunger wrote:i ask myself why are people mean? im new ): in my stance on space battle forums i debate more dc vs marvel or videogame forums im still learning about one of my favorite franchises today cuz its very interesting to debate :3

People get way too serious about debating. Sometimes it's great, but it's made a lot of people complacent - or worse, arrogant. It's a pretty toxic club here sometimes but we have a lot of nice people too who are happy to help if you have any questions.

Luke tbh. Even though he's more than an equal to peak Vader in power, he's equal in sabers to a far more skilled and dangerous Vader than the one who held the upper hand against SK. That's abundantly clear from every source, from Lucas to secondary material. While SK might not be stronger in the Force, he's not beating Luke in sabers, and Luke is powerful enough - exact equal to Vader at his base levels - to hold his own.

BreakofDawn wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:i ask myself why are people mean? im new ): in my stance on space battle forums i debate more dc vs marvel or videogame forums im still learning about one of my favorite franchises today cuz its very interesting to debate :3

People get way too serious about debating. Sometimes it's great, but it's made a lot of people complacent - or worse, arrogant. It's a pretty toxic club here sometimes but we have a lot of nice people too who are happy to help if you have any questions.

 i concede debating is fun and all but its not of those things you need to take that seriously just like you said it can make you arrogant and toxic in some places that is sanctioned with a least a ban i dunno if this is the case for this site......

@BreakOfDawn @Azronger I write and meditate, doesn't help as much as being a dickhead does. That probably says a lot about me as a person but it's the simple truth.

Eat a snickers. You're too you when you're hungry.

DC, try to get someone beat your ass. It is really comforting.

Well, be a skrog to people outside of this forum then. You're getting slapped with a one-day ban otherwise - this is your final warning.

Go ahead and do it.

DC and Az rn:

yeah, he is indeed a lot like me. damn.

BreakofDawn wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:i ask myself why are people mean? im new ): in my stance on space battle forums i debate more dc vs marvel or videogame forums im still learning about one of my favorite franchises today cuz its very interesting to debate :3

People get way too serious about debating. Sometimes it's great, but it's made a lot of people complacent - or worse, arrogant. It's a pretty toxic club here sometimes but we have a lot of nice people too who are happy to help if you have any questions.

gues i finally see that..... /: