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KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 4th 2019, 11:53 pm
SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Dbbwrs10
SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Image0

The Hero of Tython as of Shadow of Revan. Darth Maul as of TCW Season 5 episode 16- The Lawless.

This thread follows all default stipulations listed in the "Guidlines" thread. Additional rules are as follows:


Feats take precedence over directly and indisputably contradicted statements.


Quotes are binding and have no expiration date unless directly or subtextually contradicted. For the latter, such a case must be made within the debate itself.


All letter or number statistics ascribed to characters from C-Canon sources, including role-playing games and trading cards, are banned.


There will be 3 posts per side, and a 5000 character finisher with a month for both debaters to write each post, and two weeks to write the finisher.


Last edited by KingofBlades on December 30th 2019, 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 5th 2019, 1:06 am
TAEP, good luck to both parties.
xolthol
xolthol
Champion of the Light
Champion of the Light

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 5th 2019, 4:11 am
TAEP. @KingofBlades the image for the HoT is so great. Where do you find it ?
Shioz
Shioz

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 5th 2019, 4:22 am
@xolthol wrote:TAEP. @KingofBlades the image for the HoT is so great. Where do you find it ?
I think he took it from here .
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 5th 2019, 1:36 pm
Interesting
avatar
BoD (Away)
Level Six
Level Six

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 5th 2019, 2:25 pm
Love that picture of the HoT. TAEP, please. Looking forward to this debate.
xolthol
xolthol
Champion of the Light
Champion of the Light

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 5th 2019, 2:41 pm
@Shioz thanks
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 5th 2019, 4:37 pm
TAEP (even though people never get tagged).
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 5th 2019, 4:38 pm
TAG AFTER EVERY POST GUYS EVEN THOUGH I WON'T GET TAGGED.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 7th 2019, 7:43 am
I’m tagging you two.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 30th 2019, 1:16 pm
NOTICE: The matchup for this SS has been changed per the request of IdrisianGraecus.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 30th 2019, 1:18 pm
I’ll be opening btw. I also just noticed KoB stole the rules for the thing from Hp and MP’s lmao.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 30th 2019, 1:20 pm
TAEP
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 30th 2019, 1:46 pm
Don’t tag me after each post

_________________
SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) E8ae7210
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 30th 2019, 1:49 pm
Lmao
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 30th 2019, 2:06 pm
@MasterCilghal wrote:Don’t tag me after each post
Vader's Legacy
Vader's Legacy
Level Three
Level Three

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 30th 2019, 3:40 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
This isn't fair to KOB, tag after every Cilghal post
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 31st 2019, 9:56 am
I’m tagging all of you
AlexSerp
AlexSerp

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on December 31st 2019, 10:01 am
TAEP. Maul?
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on January 28th 2020, 6:32 am
@IG (Exists) Did you forget about this?

_________________
SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Sheev_sig_3
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on January 28th 2020, 6:42 am
No, writing the post. I need to finalize some details.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on February 2nd 2020, 3:13 pm
Section I - Darth Vader

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) YFnJZHU-IZ8EMdb4NSJHknc_PTDXSszisdE5d_Thighi79QNfYu6b9KKruJoeo2Rn6eovHTezOMcojf7DfgoS0fAZsG_kZD3sju09XGsLI5k0tzGzSPOuh9AepD-Q4cAmVi7P4B-

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) 3qfoK75iGtWgtNtrf-wp7eClGmKjmZQVmSoQ0Bir3JRi8Ka9BtSvEiwK0YkPsPufWFqYUd0Aot1apRWYvt0tl1CXKgQULETr8iP6m1k0CPTiWxHq5NxpZqE16-C2PQ5UVePKx1dv

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) UJ8s-2fkG4WwcmCbdHYxI_s6KTyr22JaHBQ5Hr0v7KeazZ7_-g547kQ15DD0CmKEXdLroRUJSyDoBMlrFfAjGZY1Q-YRUvWLfqBescfWHLFSUeDiuB05UTW9jdkFw6y61fJsNylw

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) CePW5q6k1psa8Ynn_cpBTpy5P1am4afwRTCid6bAqUSgAbuwKJFp_OK3k0oA2gU6nUwC7igINlWZq15hcD9RSQdBLVdXl8dHGHvNXFA87oMUQJYa0xG3838YVwHWZWsEWU7mssT3

“Star Wars Tales #9 sets out the answer the heated fan debate -- who's tougher: Darth Maul or Darth Vader? Sith doctrine clearly states that there can only be one survivor in this match.” (Starwars.com - September 2001 comics).
-https://web.archive.org/web/20020722052633/http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2001/06/news20010607.html

The very cover of Resurrection (along with numerous other sources)  implies that it was made solely to settle the debate of who would win in a fight, (TPM) Maul, or Vader. Maul nearly kills Vader, but is cheapshotted at the end. Keep in mind that Vader had help (a bunch of stormtroopers). So this establishes TPM Maul <= Vader (at least).

While vastly pre prime, Vader manages to collapse a massive cathedral while injured:

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) 0I3hw-ajQa6Jyscs5OprWZIlxL-jdkGOq32gD5yIfTgzgDUy9vwcREu8o_1h_QWeAazdBJkTOltIXc8u2HwqPE4gLPeNE09hnHy9pEh5LBgffFpQ64mJFbiggDcmGbwjRj0IP3A_
Given that there’s a labyrinth underneath the cathedral, it’s rather large. 
SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) EoD-qLfvL1QV-ndQVIX6J3IgL93Id9b68Joq7ROwV2zZ3kOcZUGndW9QT6mf_O4BECIc0fyYu8RXZpO9YRMbiDLVOVkNcfY5qVdgsjdNBqnKpD_x8jVM_M46CUUVscKDSI9rZYLv


Keep in mind that he grows immensely from here. Vader also scales vastly above Lumiya, and therefore a Prime Mara Jade: 
Legacy of the Force: Exile wrote:Luke frowned over that one. "Lady has to be Lumiya. She used to style herself the Dark Lady of the Sith ... after Emperor Palpatine and my father were no longer around to slap her down for presumption."

Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice wrote:Mara's autopilot kicked in and she was the Emperor's Hand again, silent and focused. There was nothing worth saying anyway. Amateurs gave speeches; professionals got on with the job.
She Force-leapt five meters at Lumiya, slashing down right to left, two-handed. The stroke—all power, no finesse—clipped the Sith's headdress as she sprang back, slicing off a section. Lumiya's eyes widened, pupils dilated, but she was already whirling her lightwhip about her head. The tails crackled and hissed, missing Mara only because she threw all her energy into a Force push to slow them a fraction.
Mara didn't take that weapon lightly. It was the worst of both worlds, leather strips studded with impervious Mandalorian iron fragments and tendrils of sheer, raw, murderous dark energy. Mara drew her blaster and rolled under the hull of the ship next to her. The light-whip gouged through the durasteel with a shriek of tearing metal, filling the air with the smell of hydraulic fluid, and the spurt of liquid turned into a torrent that began spreading in a thick pool. As Mara rolled clear on the other side of the ship, Lumiya landed heavily on both feet and brought the whip down so close to Mara's head that she felt the rush of air on her right cheek like a breath. The crack was deafening.
Mara wasn't even thinking when she aimed the blaster. Lumiya's whip hand was raised to throw as much weight as possible from the back stroke. A puff of white vapor burst from Lumiya's shoulder, and she staggered a few paces.
Metal. Maybe I hit metal.
Maybe she had, because Lumiya teetered for a second but came right back. Mara sprang horizontally from a crouch and cannoned into Lumiya's legs with all the power she could muster from the Force. She hit solid durasteel. Blood filled her mouth but she couldn't feel a thing—yet. Clinging to Lumiya's knees with one arm, denying her the space to swing the whip, she brought her down like a felled tree before smashing her head into the woman's face.
And that hurt. Oh yes, Mara felt that. She'd caught not Lumiya's nose but the cybernetic jaw, and it cut deep into her forehead. Fighting on pure reflex now, part stunned, she killed the lightsaber blade for a second and held the hilt like a dagger, stabbing it down into Lumiya's chest before flicking the energy back on. Lumiya pulled to the side as the blade punched through flesh. Mara smelled it. She flicked off the blade to pull back again, triumphant.
I've done it. Dead. Dead, you—
But Lumiya was screaming, and that wasn't right at all. The scream seared through Mara's spinning head. It was more than sound. It was—
Mara scrambled to her knees to look down at what should have been a dead woman, and stared into green eyes that were utterly devoid of any emotion, and then the world darkened like an eclipse.
Maybe I'm the one who's dead.

Mara’s TK feats include sustaining a Protection Bubble and moving it higher as she and Jaina move higher, while simultaneously moving several hundred rocks up, over and behind them over the course of many hours:

New Jedi Order: Balance Point wrote:Then she said, "I need you to join with me, so I can nudge the bubble higher in the direction we want to go. I'll try to slide rocks off the back of the bubble while I lift other rocks ahead of us, and I'll fill in those gaps before the ceiling collapses any lower. Do you see what I've got in mind?"
...
"I'm working on it." Visualizing this wrong would flatten their bubble of safety. She needed to move about a hundred rocks simultaneously, up, over, and behind them. Then another hundred, and another. It could take hours. "Open to me, Jaina. The way you used to do in training."
...
Creeping forward over gouged stone, Mara breathed shallowly through her borrowed mask. The Force bubble overhead lost precious millimeters with each group of stones she conveyed over the top. She felt Luke's distant touch again, and a pulse of strength with it. Thanks, Skywalker, she shot back at him, feeling a little limp. There was a time for gratitude.
...
"Explains plenty, though." Another dozen rocks clicked down into place behind them, and Mara slithered forward a centimeter.
...
Mara kept her own mask on. Another group of rocks lifted. She caught a glimmer of light through the space beyond them. "Almost," she grunted.
It was hard to keep stones moving slowly, now. The mental image of dying within half a meter of freedom kept her focused. Moving the last stones took over an hour.


The greatest TK feat the HoT scales off of is arguably the Barsen’thor blasting open blast doors, a feat that pales in comparison to what Maul scales off of.

Section II - Savage and the Council

Before growing immensely, Maul is able to defeat Savage with extreme ease (TCW S5, E1) and Savage himself is capable of TKing massive shuttles off of a cliff ([url=https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625138-savage pushes a shuttle.gif]link[/url]), as well as overpowering Jedi Master Adi Gallia with Telekinesis ([url=https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625104-savage force pushes adi.gif]link[/url]),as well as defeating her decisively, an impressive showing given that Gallia is counted among “some of the best Jedi in the Order” (New Essential Chronology) and “the Great Jedi Masters” (The Last of the Jedi: The Desperate Mission), the likes of which include Ki-Adi Mundi, Eeth Koth, Plo Koon, and others. Given that the PT is regarded as a “golden age” for the Jedi according to Lucas, superiority to some of the greatest masters in the PT (by a great margin as well) is made even more impressive. 

Savage is also far more powerful than TPM Maul, given his superiority to restored S4 Maul in force power (link ), and Maul is noted as “restored to his former power” (Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Sith Hunters). This therefore means that Maul’s superiority to Vader is even more immense, as TCW S5 #16 Maul >> S5 E1 Maul >> S5 E1 Savage >> S4 E22 Savage > S4 E22 Maul ~ TPM Maul ~ Vader.

All this clearly establishes Maul’s power to be among the higher-tiered characters, but Maul truly shines when you take a look at his combat skill. 

Section III - Training and Combat Skill

So, first we have to look at Maul’s training in terms of his skill with a lightsaber, 

Episode I Journal: Darth Maul wrote:When I complete my basic exercises, I power up my double-bladed lightsaber and practice maneuvers. My body is as strong as durasteel and as fluid as water. I shift from one position of attack to another. I fall on one knee and slash my lightsaber as I imagine cleaving my victim cleanly. I roll away and grip my lightsaber with both hands for a vertical sweep. I leap and twist and come down, leading with my left shoulder. I deliver a death blow and leap away, somersaulting in the air. I perform ten thousand slashes, lunges, attacks. 
My lightsaber is no longer a separate weapon, but part of my arm. I move in the time it would take my opponent to blink. I move in the time he would take to raise his weapon. He would only see the space where I had been. He would feel the sudden shock of the blow that would knock him to the floor. I do these maneuvers a hundred times a day. I do them even though my body knows them intimately, even though I have not made a mistake or a misstep in years. I do them until the memory of the movement is part of the muscle itself. The goal of the Sith is to fight without thought.

So Maul’s technical skill with a saber is flawless, ten thousand slashes, lunges, and attacks, a hundred times a day makes it so that each day, Maul performs around a million of these. 

Maul also has incredible endurance as a result of his training. When he was younger than ten years old, Maul was knocked out by his training droid and dropped off on Mustafar. He then survived without any resources, just his instincts, and found food, etc on his own. He slept twice. And the guy wasn’t even ten yet.

The Wrath of Darth Maul wrote:He pushed himself up. He was on a broad slab of rock on Mustafar's surface. The loud roaring sound came from a nearby rocky vent that was spewing lava. He didn't know how long he'd been outside or even how far he was from Sidous's facility. But he knew he had not arrived at this place on his own.

He looked around. He saw no sign of TD-D9 or Sidious, or of any other kind of shelter. Although they had not taken away the clothes and bandages he was wearing, they had not left him with any provisions. But he did have something to his advantage. He had his training.
Maul was not scared. He felt free. He could live or perish on this hostile world without anyone to tell him what to do. And then he realized he was not in any way eager to die. He became resolved to survive. He would do anything and everything necessary to stay alive.
He saw a dark shape move past the lava vent. Crouching low to the ground, ignoring the pain from his ribs and left arm, he watched with wonder as a tall masked Mustafarian rode by on a massive six-legged lava flea. Two more flea-mounted Mustafarians followed.
Maul had no idea where the Mustafarians were headed, whether they were going to a mining camp or back to their remote village. He would track them, find their food, and steal it. If it became necessary to kill them to ensure his own survival, he would gather rocks to strike them dead or strangle them with his own bandages and broken bones. And then he would find his way back to Sidous and prove that he was indeed a strong boy. He would prove that he feared nothing.
He would earn the respect of his Master.
The Three Mustafarians moved off. Maul followed them.
***
"Ah, you have returned," Sidious said to Maul, who stood before him in the tapestry-decorated chamber in the Mustafar facility. Sidious was holding a small container of food pellets, which he had been gently pushing into the hovering watery orb to feed the fish. Maul's head was covered with soot and dirt, and his torso was adorned with ill-fitting, bloodstained Mustafarian armor. Looking at the armor, Sidious smiled. "I see you kept busy during your little outing."
The spider-legged droid TD-D9 stood a short distance behind Maul. The droid's right front leg was missing, and one of it's left legs was mangled. "I found him outside, Master Sidious," TD-D9 said, "not far from the landing pad. He'd set a trap. I walked right into it." Raising one of its pincer arms, the droid held out the shattered remains of its front right leg. "Maul could have destroyed me."
Sidious set aside the fish food and looked at Maul skeptically. "Is this true? You could have destroyed the droid?"
"Yes, Master Sidious," Maul replied.
"Then why didn't you?"
Maul tilted his chin toward the droid, "Because I wanted to bring this thing back to you in pieces."
Sidious smiled again. "Maul, do you know how long you were running around on Mustafar's surface?"
Maul grimaced. "I'm not certain, Master Sidious. I fell asleep twice while I was outside."
"Well, I'll tell you, then. You survived outside for seventeen standard days. I doubt very much that many boys your age - and that includes young Mustafarians - could accomplish such a thing without a wealth of provisions and emergency equipment. I commend you."



Maul is also master of Form VII: Juyo, which requires the mastery of multiple other forms. 

Insider #62: Fightsaber wrote:Only high-level masters of multiple forms can achieve and control the ultimate discipline known as Form VII.

Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords wrote:"Perhaps one of the greatest styles, learned only by the most skilled of Force wielders.

To wield a saberstaff, one must be incredibly skilled and masterful, not just “Any Jedi Knight” could wield one. 
Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter wrote:Any Jedi Knight could wield a single-bladed lightsaber; only a master fighter could use the weapon first designed by the legendary Dark Lord Exar Kun millennia ago. Unless one was in perfect attunement with it, the weapon could be as deadly to the user as to the opponent.

This is impressive because the PT is described as the “golden age” of the Jedi by Lucas, and therefore implies that it is one of the (if not the) most prosperous eras of the Jedi, in which they are logically more powerful.  

This is important because we know that since Exar Kun developed the saberstaff 4000 years before Maul’s time, so multiple innovations/improvements must have been made across the millenia, whether to the actual design, or to the form involved. We know that Maul’s technical skill with a saber is top-notch, and he likely has greater skill with a saber than any or all saberstaff wielders that preceded him. Furthermore, the PT is described as the “golden-age” of the Jedi and Sith. While KOTOR is described as the “prime” of the Jedi, SWTOR isn’t included, as the two are technically in different eras.

Maul’s martial prowess isn’t limited to only his skill with a lightsaber however, he’s described as having mastered “numerous exotic and forbidden martial arts” (Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force), an obvious advantage when confronting a foe who has no knowledge of Maul’s capabilities.

Section IV - Barriers

As you know, most of us on SI (myself included) of constructing massive 10-link scaling chains and arguing that the opposing character would be “ragdolled”. This doesn’t make any sense given the wealth of evidence showing the disproportionate strength of barriers. 

SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) JBMa4KU5z0Z5bFtDgzADwotX2GHLjeeCgmDjzMgJuQ-WPUo42Isho07gtrCXXYfwFUlDi2oeGf_eYbjUXTh7R-inreQc4SqQzjd2khRRCARLITkWqeNi3yM8wYQn4WNuKtv3nbcF

The quote above clearly states that only “the combined efforts of several powerful Force users eventually could break through [the barrier]”. 

This is demonstrated in Path of Destruction:

Darth Bane: Path of Destruction wrote:"I agree," Bane replied, hurling out the wave of Force energy he had been gathering during the Blademaster's speech.

There was nothing subtle about Bane's attack: the massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid. But at the last possible instant he threw up a shield to protect himself from the attack.

Bane gathers his energy across an entire speech, so this is clearly an incredibly powerful attack, and it “shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan temple”, but at the “last possible instance”, Kas’im “threw up a shield” and manages to completely negate the attack.


This is likewise demonstrated in Shadow Conspiracy, when the likes of Sidious, a character so astronomically above Maul is incapable of ragdolling him, and he has to resort to “pounce” on the openings Maul leaves. 

Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy wrote:Maul tried to slash past Sidious’s guard, only to find his Master had given ground, causing Maul to extend his arms too far and leave himself slightly unbalanced. It was the smallest stumble, easily corrected, but Sidious saw it—and pounced before Maul could draw himself back. Snarling, he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall, leaving him lying stunned in a heap.

From this we can establish that while superiority in the force does play a role in the outcome of a fight, unless there’s an immense gap, no ragdolling or outright telekinetic dominance is displayed. Therefore we can determine that (if it exists, which it does not) superiority in the force on the HoT’s part is rendered irrelevant by the fact that Maul possesses far superior combat skills (one of the best combatants in the “golden age”).

Section V - Revan and Sidious 

Perhaps the greatest argument in Maul’s favor is his performance against Sidious, relative to the HoT’s against Revan. 

Maul, despite losing puts up a good fight against Sidious. He has several disadvantages throughout, such as Sidious’ intimate familiarity with his style (Sidious as Maul throughout his 1000 identical sequences, etc). The greatest example of how this kind of familiarity is impactful on a fight is perhaps Anakin vs. Obi Wan on Mustafar, during Revenge of the Sith. Despite Vader’s mental hindrance, he still possesses raw power far greater than the likes of Yoda and Darth Sidious, yet Obi Wan is able to defeat him—why(?), because he possesses great knowledge of Anakin’s style. The same is true of Maul and Sidious, giving Sidious an inherent advantage in the fight. Sidious’ greater experience also plays a role in this fight, noted by Lucas in his description of Anakin vs. Obi Wan (Link ).


Sidious is also able to pretend to be far weaker than he actually is in order to create openings and exploit them, evidenced in the quote below:

Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy wrote:But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimeter out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul and Savage made before it developed.

Darth Sidious is more powerful than SWTOR Vitiate: 


The New Essential Chronology wrote:Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.


And Vitiate, in turn, is more powerful than Revan: 

Darth Marr: SWTOR wrote:"No one person - not even Revan - can truly destroy the Emperor. He will destroy Revan, then move on to the rest of us. In time, he will consume all life in the galaxy."

Multiple more people/sources (including intent) support this notion.Vitiate is made out to be this threat that’s the most powerful in the galaxy (thus far), not even the might of one as Revan can defeat him.

Yet despite the powerhouse he is, the HoT is utterly powerless against Revan. While aided by the likes of Darth Marr, Satele Shan, Shae Vizla, Jakarro, Theron Shan, and Lana Beniko, alongside a freighter conducting bombing runs upon Revan (link ), as well as being in a state of “battle clarity”, and having their “combat effectiveness” “greatly increased” (link ) as a result of Satele’s battle meditation, while also having their force reserves (the whole strike team, that is) and force power increased twofold (link ), the HoT is unable to do anything. An example of the potency of BM in combat (between force users) is Master Worror during Darth Bane: Rule of Two:

Darth Bane: Rule of Two wrote:It had been many years since Farfalla had fought while empowered by Worror's battle meditation. He had forgotten how much quicker and stronger the Ithorian's amazing talent made him feel. The Force flowed through him with greater power, filling him with its might. 

Fueled by Worror's battle meditation, she switched styles seamlessly, and her arms and blades became a blur as they carved figure eights in the air to catch and absorb the bolts of dark side energy.

Johun felt his strength and energy plummet, A wave of exhaustion and fatigue overwhelmed him, the beneficial effects of the battle meditation vanishing as Worror's concentration was broken.


In fact, the entire strike team expresses shock and dismay over Revan’s immense power: 

  Marr: "He is strong with the Force!” 

  Satele: "Grant me strength! . . . Press the attack!"

  Lana: "The Force is my servant! . . . Be strong! . . . So much power!"

  Shae: "Tough sucker! . . . Have some more! . . . Love a good scrap!"

  Theron: "Don't let up! . . . Let's go, people!"

  Jakarro: "Hit him with everything!"

Meaning that despite every conceivable advantage, the HoT is unable to even begin to overcome Revan (who was likely holding back as a result of wanting to drain the strike team and to conserve his energy for the ritual), alongside a massive BM amp, as well as a strike team of some of the most powerful individuals in the galaxy. 

Any gap between TCW and ROTS Sidious is accounted for by the gap between SoR Revan and SWTOR Vitiate (which may in fact, be larger than the gap between TCW and ROTS Sidious as a result of Sidious reaching his biological force potential and therefore not using any more power in ROTS than in TCW, etc), and Maul’s performance against Sidious on Mandalore is infinitely better than the HoT’s against Revan. Given Revan and Sidious’ relativity (if not Sidious’ supremacy), it makes sense that this establishes Maul’s superiority to the Hero of Tython.

Conclusion 

To reiterate here: 


  • Maul has extremely impressive skills with a saber, and his training was top notch during a golden age of the Jedi. 
  • Maul’s growth from TPM to TCW is immense, containing several massive gaps, meaning that Maul as of TCW is far, far more powerful than Darth Vader. 
  • The disproportionate strength of barriers allows Maul to escape the repercussions of most telekinetic attacks, and Maul’s skill as a combatant, his incredible endurance, his own physical strength, and his immense power in the force establish that he is a foe that the HoT cannot defeat. 
  • Maul’s performance against Sidious is infinitely better than the Hero’s against Revan, and Revan and Sidious are at close in power, skill, etc.


@KingofBlades: Your turn


Tags: @HellfireUnit @BoD @xolthol @EmperorCaedus @AlexSerp @MasterCilghal @NotAA3 @Blade_of_Dorin @ISV @”the lord of hunger” @Shioz
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SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on February 2nd 2020, 3:32 pm
Nice post, but that fight is still non canon.
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SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on February 2nd 2020, 3:32 pm
BoD wrote:Nice post, but that fight is still non canon.
Never said it was continuity
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SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

on February 3rd 2020, 3:07 am
Good post.
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SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades) Empty Re: SS - Darth Maul (IG) vs Hero of Tython (KingofBlades)

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