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Jake
Jake
Level One
Level One

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June 23rd 2019, 12:36 pm
LOTL wrote:Convincing means a really good one. One that covers most angles and is almost impossible to counter. Many of your arguments both in the Obi Wan vs Dooku section, and the Muur section are insightful, but they fall apart because you have only considered one aspect, not many.

Eg. Your argument that near equals or equals don't usually ragdoll each other gave me a good chuckle, because the lore is chock full of dozens of examples of near equals or even force users inferior to their opponents blasting, choking, gripping their opponents using tk( don't worry, you will get the full gist once I respond to you in our debate) repeatedly. You show clear insight in bringing this up, but it falls apart if you've done your research or have a clear idea of what you are talking about.

This is unbelievably stupid, even for you. This should be a ban.
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LOTL

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June 23rd 2019, 2:48 pm
^Literally that, only, the only thing unbelievably stupid is the above comment, and the one being banned should be Jake
The Adventurous Jedi
The Adventurous Jedi
Level Seven
Level Seven

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June 23rd 2019, 4:14 pm
LOTL wrote:Convincing means a really good one. One that covers most angles and is almost impossible to counter. Many of your arguments both in the Obi Wan vs Dooku section, and the Muur section are insightful, but they fall apart because you have only considered one aspect, not many.

Eg. Your argument that near equals or equals don't usually ragdoll each other gave me a good chuckle, because the lore is chock full of dozens of examples of near equals or even force users inferior to their opponents blasting, choking, gripping their opponents using tk( don't worry, you will get the full gist once I respond to you in our debate) repeatedly. You show clear insight in bringing this up, but it falls apart if you've done your research or have a clear idea of what you are talking about.

I'll wait for your elaboration there. Until then all I can really say to this is that I disagree with this specific example though I can see what you mean by me being insightful but not necessarily convincing.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

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June 23rd 2019, 5:03 pm
@Jake A warning for unprovoked hostility and insulting.
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LOTL

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June 23rd 2019, 5:17 pm
Krayt Dies wrote:
LOTL wrote:Convincing means a really good one. One that covers most angles and is almost impossible to counter. Many of your arguments both in the Obi Wan vs Dooku section, and the Muur section are insightful, but they fall apart because you have only considered one aspect, not many.

Eg. Your argument that near equals or equals don't usually ragdoll each other gave me a good chuckle, because the lore is chock full of dozens of examples of near equals or even force users inferior to their opponents blasting, choking, gripping their opponents using tk( don't worry, you will get the full gist once I respond to you in our debate) repeatedly. You show clear insight in bringing this up, but it falls apart if you've done your research or have a clear idea of what you are talking about.

I'll wait for your elaboration there. Until then all I can really say to this is that I disagree with this specific example though I can see what you mean by me being insightful but not necessarily convincing.

There's nothing really to disagree, this is just a case of laying out the facts that are highly against this one example. Also, I meant list, that was an oversight. Obviously you can understand that I can't say more without disrupting this debate.
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LOTL

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June 23rd 2019, 5:30 pm
Another issue with you is that you tend to go by impressions instead of critically analyzing every available evidence. The above example, and the fact that you conclude that Cade and Krayt are near equals are conclusions that stem from impressions or feelings that one generally gets by a glance at the fights in question. But, as has been shown, much closer examination may result in something completely different. The Cade example is more severe, obviously, because you did try to get a closer look, but the conclusion you derived really isn't substantiated in the comic

That is not to say your critical analysis isn't good, but then again, it isn't complete or to the standard that it has to be for your argument to be truly convincing
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Quorian Debatist
Level One
Level One

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June 23rd 2019, 6:22 pm
I agree with lotl. In fact, I say we go a little further. We should disect HP's post paragraph by paragraph and go through it to tell him where he went right or wrong. We should also provide evidence to the contrary on points we think are wrong.

I wouldn't call it a retort or butting in, but rather just to guide him on the true path to being correct. If he didn't convince me - a Kenobi fan - that Dooku destroys Ben, then I don't think his post has much merit, and I shall go in depth in this court vs defendant thread to guide him back to the true canon path.
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Four
Level Four

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June 23rd 2019, 6:30 pm
Unfair unwarranted sarcasm, I myself a Dooku supporter was not convinced of HPs argument. Having favortism of characters is no reason to complain, as i mentioned in the YT forcecast thread its what allows us to evolve, if we were completely objective we would only ever be able to reach factual already stated conclusions and there would be no reason for debate in the first place. Imagine if Ant fairly ranked Revan, he would be bottom tier street trash SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Darth Krayt (Azronger) vs Darth Tyranus (ArkhamAsylum3) - Page 5 3750555731 SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Darth Krayt (Azronger) vs Darth Tyranus (ArkhamAsylum3) - Page 5 3750555731
The Adventurous Jedi
The Adventurous Jedi
Level Seven
Level Seven

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June 23rd 2019, 7:59 pm
@LOTL

There's nothing really to disagree, this is just a case of laying out the facts that are highly against this one example. Also, I meant list, that was an oversight. Obviously you can understand that I can't say more without disrupting this debate.

We shall see.

Another issue with you is that you tend to go by impressions instead of critically analyzing every available evidence.

What suggests this to you exactly?

The above example, and the fact that you conclude that Cade and Krayt are near equals are conclusions that stem from impressions or feelings that one generally gets by a glance at the fights in question.

Yes, but I also did extensive analysis and looked at all the sources. Just because I said I got an impression doesn't mean I didn't do further research to support my thesis.

But, as has been shown, much closer examination may result in something completely different. The Cade example is more severe, obviously, because you did try to get a closer look, but the conclusion you derived really isn't substantiated in the comic

SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Darth Krayt (Azronger) vs Darth Tyranus (ArkhamAsylum3) - Page 5 1668617588 I mean it's not really relevant in any case given that the premise wasn't that Cade and Krayt are rough equals but rather that their power growth should be similar.

That is not to say your critical analysis isn't good, but then again, it isn't complete or to the standard that it has to be for your argument to be truly convincing

Fair enough.

Anyway if you want to continue this discussion switch to PMs so we don't clog up the thread.

@in-sidiousvader

Unfair unwarranted sarcasm, I myself a Dooku supporter was not convinced of HPs argument.

You've already said this.

Having favortism of characters is no reason to complain, as i mentioned in the YT forcecast thread its what allows us to evolve, if we were completely objective we would only ever be able to reach factual already stated conclusions and there would be no reason for debate in the first place.

I mean there is almost nothing "factual" about debate. Different people have different methodologies and thus reach different conclusions so I'm not sure you can objectively say any conclusion is 100% correct. For example, there are people who think feats are ultimately story driven and aren't consistent as they have to fit with the plot and that quotes on the material are ultimately far more objective than we could ever be. I don't agree with this way of thinking but it is ultimately an entirely reasonable way to debate.

Imagine if Ant fairly ranked Revan, he would be bottom tier street trash

Lol.
The Adventurous Jedi
The Adventurous Jedi
Level Seven
Level Seven

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June 23rd 2019, 8:00 pm
Quorian Debatist wrote:I agree with lotl. In fact, I say we go a little further. We should disect HP's post paragraph by paragraph and go through it to tell him where he went right or wrong. We should also provide evidence to the contrary on points we think are wrong.

I wouldn't call it a retort or butting in, but rather just to guide him on the true path to being correct. If he didn't convince me - a Kenobi fan - that Dooku destroys Ben, then I don't think his post has much merit, and I shall go in depth in this court vs defendant thread to guide him back to the true canon path.

Lmao.
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LOTL

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June 24th 2019, 1:59 am
Bro how exactly is that not relevant? Krayt being much better than Cade and being near equal to Cade is obviously relevant in determining Krayt's increase in his force ability. Because the former completely renders your argument null.

This is exactly my contention. Like I said your critical analysis is good, but you need to do better to be truly convincing
The Reborn Emperor
The Reborn Emperor
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

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June 24th 2019, 2:21 am
Do you know how ironic that sounds?
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LOTL

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June 24th 2019, 2:47 am
Yes, but I also did extensive analysis and looked at all the sources. Just because I said I got an impression doesn't mean I didn't do further research to support my thesis.

It's not about the research, but about combining the research to create a coherent view on the whole issue. If at a cursory glance, I can easily discover holes in some of your analysis then yeah, it needs improvement. It is not easy to do so for someone like Ant for example. Note, I never said it was not good, only it is not good enough to be convincing. And convincing arguments are very, very rare

That said, can someone give the discord invite link to me?
Jake
Jake
Level One
Level One

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June 24th 2019, 3:11 am
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LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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June 24th 2019, 6:47 am
What the fvck is going on?
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

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June 24th 2019, 7:26 am
Isn’t the discussion between Az and HP?
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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June 24th 2019, 7:28 am
Exactly.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator
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June 24th 2019, 8:32 am
@Krayt Dies I've always wondered: what does "HP" actually stand for? Harry Potter?
The Reborn Emperor
The Reborn Emperor
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

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June 24th 2019, 8:39 am
I think it does, in which case: shame.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

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June 24th 2019, 8:59 am
Homeward Pound obviously
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Four
Level Four

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June 24th 2019, 12:02 pm
Homosexual Phallus Legend
Spoiler:
Jake
Jake
Level One
Level One

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June 24th 2019, 5:12 pm
🇪🇭
The Adventurous Jedi
The Adventurous Jedi
Level Seven
Level Seven

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June 26th 2019, 2:13 pm
I've always wondered: what does "HP" actually stand for? Harry Potter?

Yes.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

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June 27th 2019, 10:10 am
Krayt Dies wrote:
I've always wondered: what does "HP" actually stand for? Harry Potter?

Yes.

I see. Now all you need to do to is rename yourself H_P_LeGenD to become who you truly are.
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Four
Level Four

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June 27th 2019, 10:30 am
Homerotic Penis Lover

HPL

imo

Joke again
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