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Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 12:28 am
THIS DEBATE HAS FINISHED. @Azronger HAS BEEN VOTED THE WINNER. 

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Latest?cb=20130206000500

vs

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Images10

In-character. No post or character limits. To the death. Machiavelli does the opener. LadyKulvax shall judge.
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 12:32 am
Looks interesting. TAEP.
Machiavelli
Machiavelli

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 12:37 am
Righto, so I'ma keep this brief, because the outcome itself is fairly obvious.

While most would ultimately point towards Sheev's excessive power in the Force, codified by his feats and accolades, I will say that these don't matter here. Between these characters we have a direct comparison. While most would credit Sheev to ultimately starting Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. he didn't finish it. What's truly shown as the moment where his fall is complete is when he slaughters the children. In the narrative, that's the moment where Anakin ultimately becomes Darth Vader.

Who is the face of this groundbreaking moment? Sors Bandeam. Thus, his conceptual power in the Dark Side is ultimately far surpassing that of Sheev, as one who is able to guide the chosen one further down his path. Attuned to the Force enough to see this, Sheev ultimately consumes himself with his own Force Storm at his inferiority to a small child.

Sors looks at where Sheev used to be with that stupid face of his.

He wins. I win. The ruler's back.
Meatpants
Meatpants
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Moderator | Champion of Darkness

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 12:43 am
Excellent post.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
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SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 1:39 am
@Machiavelli wrote:Righto, so I'ma keep this brief, because the outcome itself is fairly obvious.

While most would ultimately point towards Sheev's excessive power in the Force, codified by his feats and accolades, I will say that these don't matter here. Between these characters we have a direct comparison. While most would credit Sheev to ultimately starting Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. he didn't finish it. What's truly shown as the moment where his fall is complete is when he slaughters the children. In the narrative, that's the moment where Anakin ultimately becomes Darth Vader.

Who is the face of this groundbreaking moment? Sors Bandeam. Thus, his conceptual power in the Dark Side is ultimately far surpassing that of Sheev, as one who is able to guide the chosen one further down his path. Attuned to the Force enough to see this, Sheev ultimately consumes himself with his own Force Storm at his inferiority to a small child.

Sors looks at where Sheev used to be with that stupid face of his.

He wins. I win. The ruler's back.

The lore disagrees.

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Sors_b10

The Complete Locations identifies the massacre of the Separatist Council as the point where Anakin Skywalker's fall was completed. Therefore, your thesis is is simply flat-out incorrect, and Sors Bandeam cannot be credited with powers embodying the dark side itself - not that your logic makes much sense in the first place. However, let's, for the sake of the argument, continue with your line of thought: based on the evidence I have presented, the Separatist Council collectively personify the dark side of the Force and wield its power in corresponding proportions. Yet who are they seen kowtowing to in this scene?



Palpatine. The novelization gives us an explanation:

Dooku could not argue. Not only had the Dark Lord introduced Dooku to realms of power beyond his most spectacular fantasies, but Sidious was also a political manipulator so subtle that his abilities might be considered to dwarf even the power of the dark side itself. It was said that whenever the Force closes a hatch, it opens a viewport … and every viewport that had so much as cracked in this past thirteen standard years had found a Dark Lord of the Sith already at the rim, peering in, calculating how best to slip through.

Sidious' political acumen is greater than all the power of the dark side itself. This is how, through his mere words, he is able to placate and command the very avatar of the dark side as embodied by the Separatist Council. So even were you on the money with your assessment of Sors Bandeam, Sidious would still win by talking Sors to death. But since your assessment is dead-wrong, Sidious would just one-shot him with the Force or speedblitz him with his lightsaber, as Sors is ultimately just a featless kid who died in a single slash from Anakin.
Meatpants
Meatpants
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SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 1:50 am
Not sure he can recover from that response.
NotAA3
NotAA3
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Level Four

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 11:36 am
@Meatpants wrote:Not sure he can recover from that response.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 11:40 am
^^^
Machiavelli
Machiavelli

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 12:08 pm
Az wrote:The Complete Locations identifies the massacre of the Separatist Council as the point where Anakin Skywalker's fall was completed. Therefore, your thesis is is simply flat-out incorrect, and Sors Bandeam cannot be credited with powers embodying the dark side itself - not that your logic makes much sense in the first place. However, let's, for the sake of the argument, continue with your line of thought: based on the evidence I have presented, the Separatist Council collectively personify the dark side of the Force and wield its power in corresponding proportions. Yet who are they seen kowtowing to in this scene?

"the lore contradicts"

Quaint argument, but we exist in a world that's grown beyond your understanding, Az. All of what we talk has been considered non canon drivel by our Mouse overlord, which means that canon tiering is explicitly out the window.

Thus, while my arguments in a pre-Disney context would be thrown out as non canon conjecture, I have been granted immense freedom. With the sheer apathy towards Legends that has been taken by Disney, everything I say is as canon as the rest, and at this point, it all comes to down who has more claims that support their point + the bias of the people who are voting in this debate. As someone far more popular than you, and having a talent for bullshit that far surpasses your own, you're fucked boyo.

Az wrote:Sidious' political acumen is greater than all the power of the dark side itself. This is how, through his mere words, he is able to placate and command the very avatar of the dark side as embodied by the Separatist Council. So even were you on the money with your assessment of Sors Bandeam, Sidious would still win by talking Sors to death. But since your assessment is dead-wrong, Sidious would just one-shot him with the Force or speedblitz him with his lightsaber, as Sors is ultimately just a featless kid who died in a single slash from Anakin.

Sidious is also named Sheev, has a face like a diseased ball sack, and was unable to react to getting thrown over a ledge by a crippled toaster who had just got his ass kicked by some douche with a bowl cut. His nature is one of fodder, and he's crushed under the conceptual weight of Sors.

Thus, Sidious' reaction when Sors moves to deal with him can be summed up as:

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) D5kounFWAAArSNA?format=jpg&name=360x360
Vader's Legacy
Vader's Legacy
Level Three
Level Three

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 12:38 pm
okay, just no. this isn't even funny tbh, it's too much of a stomp for Sors imo
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 12:45 pm
I’m not sure Wankatine stands much of a chance...
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 2nd 2019, 1:06 pm
KEK, no way Az can win now.
xolthol
xolthol
Champion of the Light
Champion of the Light

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 3rd 2019, 3:22 am
OMG this thread is genial !
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 4th 2019, 3:06 am
@Machiavelli wrote:"the lore contradicts"

Quaint argument, but we exist in a world that's grown beyond your understanding, Az. All of what we talk has been considered non canon drivel by our Mouse overlord, which means that canon tiering is explicitly out the window.

The rules disagree.

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Versus10

When Canon or Legends is not clarified in the thread stipulations, Legends is assumed by default. Such happens to be the case in this thread, so your argument is automatically decimated per your own concession: "my arguments in a pre-Disney context would be thrown out as non canon conjecture" - you. I win. However, for completionism's sake, I'll tackle the rest of your posts in a Disney-only context (note: this does not mean I am conceding Disney Canon is valid here (it's not); I am merely showcasing you that even if I did concede this point (I haven't) and revert purely to Disney Canon, you'd still lose).

Thus, while my arguments in a pre-Disney context would be thrown out as non canon conjecture, I have been granted immense freedom. With the sheer apathy towards Legends that has been taken by Disney, everything I say is as canon as the rest, and at this point, it all comes to down who has more claims that support their point + the bias of the people who are voting in this debate. As someone far more popular than you, and having a talent for bullshit that far surpasses your own, you're fucked boyo.

Disney has not shown apathy towards Legends. Quite the contrary, as evidenced by Ahsoka Tano's line here:



(0:16)

Per your logic, everything under Disney has an equal amount of canonical value. This includes character statements. So even a "bit" of truth in Legends is still worth more than no truth. Ergo, nothing in my first post is outright false, even by Disney standards: the Separatist Council drove Anakin Skywalker to the dark side more than Sors Bandeam, the Separatist Council is seen serving to Sidious and referring to him as "my lord," and Sors died in one strike from Anakin.

Furthermore, you have opened the floodgates of unfiltered autism with your argument: if everything you say "is as canon as the rest, and at this point it all comes down to who has more claims to support their point," that applies to me too. You have chosen to treat your opinion about Sors' role in Anakin's fall and the supposed powers it grants him that have not officially been accepted into Disney's continuity as equally valid to any actually Canon material. To deny me the same right would be heinous double standard. Therefore, everything I say, no matter how baseless or inane, is just as valid as everything else under your system, and the only thing I need to do to achieve victory is to pump out a greater quantity of claims supporting my stance than you, and keep it up until I outlast you. Very well, here's my opening salvo: a hundred claims that corroborate Sidious winning this fight:

  • Sheev beats Sors in a fight
  • Sheev defeats Sors in a fight
  • Sheev kills Sors in a fight
  • Sheev stomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev decastomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev kilostomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev megastomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev gigastomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev terastomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev petastomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev exastomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev zettastomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev yottastomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev curbstomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev superstomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev hyperstomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev duperstomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev ultrastomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev godstomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev Sheevstomps Sors in a fight
  • Sheev beats Sors in a battle
  • Sheev defeats Sors in a battle
  • Sheev kills Sors in a battle
  • Sheev stomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev decastomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev kilostomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev megastomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev gigastomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev terastomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev petastomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev exastomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev zettastomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev yottastomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev curbstomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev superstomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev hyperstomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev duperstomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev ultrastomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev godstomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev Sheevstomps Sors in a battle
  • Sheev beats Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev defeats Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev kills Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev stomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev decastomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev kilostomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev megastomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev gigastomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev terastomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev petastomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev exastomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev zettastomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev yottastomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev curbstomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev superstomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev hyperstomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev duperstomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev ultrastomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev godstomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev Sheevstomps Sors in a skirmish
  • Sheev beats Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev defeats Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev kills Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev stomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev decastomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev kilostomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev megastomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev gigastomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev terastomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev petastomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev exastomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev zettastomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev yottastomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev curbstomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev superstomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev hyperstomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev duperstomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev ultrastomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev godstomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev Sheevstomps Sors with a lightsaber
  • Sheev beats Sors with the Force
  • Sheev defeats Sors with the Force
  • Sheev kills Sors with the Force
  • Sheev stomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev decastomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev kilostomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev megastomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev gigastomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev terastomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev petastomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev exastomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev zettastomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev yottastomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev curbstomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev superstomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev hyperstomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev duperstomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev ultrastomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev godstomps Sors with the Force
  • Sheev Sheevstomps Sors with the Force


There're a hundred claims supporting my stance, which is more than the amount of claims supporting your stance. Therefore, I have an immense advantage over you per your own logic.

Sidious is also named Sheev, has a face like a diseased ball sack, and was unable to react to getting thrown over a ledge by a crippled toaster who had just got his ass kicked by some douche with a bowl cut. His nature is one of fodder, and he's crushed under the conceptual weight of Sors.

I see no actual rebuttal here. You didn't address the fact that Palpatine had the Separatist Council at his beck and call; you didn't address the fact his mere words could enable him to dominate those of greater power than him, including the very essence of the dark side itself; and you didn't address the fact he could do so to Sors even were the kid more powerful than him.

Moreover, there's a double standard here: you lambast Sidious for the way he died, but conveniently ignore how Sors met his end. As I said earlier, he died in a single slash from Anakin. This is despite your purported claim he has power eclipsing Sidious. Since the thread stipulations specify Sors fights in-character, it's safe to say he won't do any fighting at all; he'll just let Sidious to cut him to pieces like he let Anakin. His modus operandi in combat is to commit suicide and never attack, no matter how weak his opponent is compared to him (KF Vader is definitely weaker than DE Palpatine, so Sors would be head and shoulders above KF Vader in your power scale, yet he still got one-shot). This is true in both continuities, Legends and Canon.

And finally, Sidious can't even die. Again, in both Canon and Legends, he returns after his death on Endor, so Sors has no way to put him down while Sors himself gets intentionally one-shot by beings weaker than Sidious and never, ever fights back, and stays permanently dead.

All in all, you have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the debate rules, the source material you're trying to debate, and the implications of your own arguments and how you've hung yourself with your own rope. You also completely dodged one of my points and committed one double standard already. I sincerely hope your next post will be better but I'm not holding my breath.
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SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 4th 2019, 3:20 am
"Sheev petastomps sors"
-Azronger 2019
LSDMB
LSDMB

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 4th 2019, 4:01 am
Sorry Az, you're still losin bruh
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
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SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 4th 2019, 5:42 am
^^^
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 4th 2019, 8:40 am
^

Lmao.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
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SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 4th 2019, 8:48 am
It’s starting to get serious 
SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) 1076326320
dark-sith123
dark-sith123

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 8th 2019, 2:34 pm
Az fails to see just how thoroughly Palpatine is outclassed here. Hell, in all honesty, even Sors' political acument is greater than the Emperor's.
AzureAmaterasu
AzureAmaterasu

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on May 9th 2019, 10:12 am
I cackled.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
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SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on July 27th 2019, 8:13 pm
Is this debate over?
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
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Moderator | Champion of the Light

SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on July 27th 2019, 8:48 pm
@DarthAnt66 I'm willing to continue it, but @Machiavelli has suggested he won't, so you should ask him.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
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SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli) Empty Re: SS - Darth Sidious (Azronger) vs Sors Bandeam (Machiavelli)

on July 27th 2019, 9:17 pm
Sors could've instastomped KF Vader but allowed himself to be killed for the sake of destiny. Sidious fails to grasp the depth of the power he is facing.
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