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The EllimistLevel Five
Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 27th 2019, 11:39 pm
Who wins in:
- Force knowledge
- Force Potential
- Sorcery
- Intelligence
- Charisma
- Political skill
- Success
- OOU quality as a villain
- Force knowledge
- Force Potential
- Sorcery
- Intelligence
- Charisma
- Political skill
- Success
- OOU quality as a villain
Shioz
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 27th 2019, 11:51 pm
Sidious wins in all categories.
Master AzrongerModerator
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 2:50 am
I feel like sorcery is debatable. Sidious wins in all the rest.
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MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 2:52 am
Everything except Sorcery probably.
KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 3:04 am
We don't really know how Vitiate relates in terms of force knowledge. He never passed down his knowledge to future sith in a holocron.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 3:05 am
No doubt it was vast, but not sure there's any solid way of proving it surpassed Sidious'
BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 5:10 am
Sidious wins in all except sorcery and charisma. Can't beat Valkorion's godly voice. Made my Outlander join him in a heartbeat.
HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 5:12 am
Sidious wins in everything except charisma. Though have to admit, this is a personal opinion of mine.
AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 5:50 am
The Ellimist wrote:Who wins in:
- Force knowledge - Impossible to determine.
- Force Potential - Neither have limitations.
- Sorcery - Tenebrae, by far.
- Intelligence - Tenebrae given his accomplishments.
- Charisma - Sheev.
- Political skill - Sheev.
- Success - Tenebrae.
- OOU quality as a villain - Sheev, by far.
Valkorion
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 6:01 am
- Force knowledge: Valkorion moderately
- Force Potential: Sidious by a lot
- Sorcery: Valkorion moderately
- Intelligence: Sidious by a lot
- Charisma: Valkorion moderately
- Political skill: Sidious by a lot
- Success: Sidious moderately
- OOU quality as a villain: Sidious by a lot lmao
- Force Potential: Sidious by a lot
- Sorcery: Valkorion moderately
- Intelligence: Sidious by a lot
- Charisma: Valkorion moderately
- Political skill: Sidious by a lot
- Success: Sidious moderately
- OOU quality as a villain: Sidious by a lot lmao
- The EllimistLevel Five
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 6:08 am
Force knowledge: Valkorion had like 15x the time, but Sidious learns much faster and had more resources. Valkorion likely has a greater amount of raw information, but I'd imagine it's close in terms of the most potent info.
Force Potential: Sidious clearly, given how quickly he reached his power level.
Sorcery: dunno
Intelligence: Sidious
Charisma: maybe Valkorion unless if you count the PT Palpatine persona
Political skill: obviously Sidious
Success: while Valkorion ruled for longer, it's much harder to topple the Republic than it is to just rule in secret in the outer rim
OOU quality as a villain: Sidious
Force Potential: Sidious clearly, given how quickly he reached his power level.
Sorcery: dunno
Intelligence: Sidious
Charisma: maybe Valkorion unless if you count the PT Palpatine persona
Political skill: obviously Sidious
Success: while Valkorion ruled for longer, it's much harder to topple the Republic than it is to just rule in secret in the outer rim
OOU quality as a villain: Sidious
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- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 6:23 am
Success: Tenebrae manufactured two galactic superpowers in secret, created the plan that won half the galaxy for the Empire through all-out war. Created his own intelligence agency. So much more shit that I have trouble even remembering. Half of what Sidious achieved was laid down by Plagueis for him. Tenebrae had no help at all.
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 6:25 am
> Tenebrae had no help at all
> 8000 Sith Lords aid him for his ritual
> ???
> 8000 Sith Lords aid him for his ritual
> ???
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 6:26 am
Yeah, those 8,000 Sith Lords got played and he killed them all. They weren't even involved in his empire. He made himself their God before arriving at Dromund Kaas.
- The EllimistLevel Five
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 6:29 am
LadyKulvax wrote:Success: Tenebrae manufactured two galactic superpowers in secret,
Sidious manufactured the Droid Army in a decade, the Clone Army in a decade, and then the Dark Empire in a few decades, all in secret.
created the plan that won half the galaxy for the Empire through all-out war.
Sidious won the entire galaxy
Created his own intelligence agency.
The Galactic Empire had intelligence agencies
Half of what Sidious achieved was laid down by Plagueis for him.
Not as much as you'd think, since Sidious had actually been manipulating Plagueis's actions for most of the book
Tenebrae had no help at all.
Errrrr, what?
_________________
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 7:02 am
The Ellimist wrote:LadyKulvax wrote:Success: Tenebrae manufactured two galactic superpowers in secret,
Sidious manufactured the Droid Army in a decade,
Via the CIS factions he manipulated. Tenebrae built his empires from the ground-up.
The Ellimist wrote:the Clone Army in a decade,
Via the Kaminoans. Again, Tenebrae built his empires himself.
The Ellimist wrote:and then the Dark Empire in a few decades,
This one he gets more credit for, but it was still via the remnants of the Empire.
The Ellimist wrote:created the plan that won half the galaxy for the Empire through all-out war.
Sidious won the entire galaxy
By manipulating both sides, not by masterminding a war plan that was stated to be the greatest in history and won half the galaxy against the strongest Republic military there'd ever been, through conquer. The Jedi had to resort to literal suicide tactics to stop his plans at the inner rim.
The Ellimist wrote:Created his own intelligence agency.
The Galactic Empire had intelligence agencies
Which were pre-established from the Republic. Tenebrae created a network of spies throughout the galaxy by himself, that no one else, not even the Dark Council, knew about.
The Ellimist wrote:Half of what Sidious achieved was laid down by Plagueis for him.
Not as much as you'd think, since Sidious had actually been manipulating Plagueis's actions for most of the book
I know full well how it went down.
The Ellimist wrote:Tenebrae had no help at all.
Errrrr, what?
He is literally the singular mind behind everything, everyone else in his Empires were a pawn.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 7:03 am
To be fair, all of Sidious' plans were built off the connections and resources the Banites had been working on since Bane himself.
NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 2:42 pm
The Ellimist wrote:Force knowledge: Valkorion had like 15x the time, but Sidious learns much faster and had more resources. Valkorion likely has a greater amount of raw information, but I'd imagine it's close in terms of the most potent info.
Force Potential: Sidious clearly, given how quickly he reached his power level.
Sorcery: dunno
Intelligence: Sidious
Charisma: maybe Valkorion unless if you count the PT Palpatine persona
Political skill: obviously Sidious
Success: while Valkorion ruled for longer, it's much harder to topple the Republic than it is to just rule in secret in the outer rim
OOU quality as a villain: Sidious
Deronn_Solo
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 2:45 pm
This. I'd say Valkorion is emphatically more charismatic, tho. His quotes/one-liners are some of the best in the mythos.The Ellimist wrote:Force knowledge: Valkorion had like 15x the time, but Sidious learns much faster and had more resources. Valkorion likely has a greater amount of raw information, but I'd imagine it's close in terms of the most potent info.
Force Potential: Sidious clearly, given how quickly he reached his power level.
Sorcery: dunno
Intelligence: Sidious
Charisma: maybe Valkorion unless if you count the PT Palpatine persona
Political skill: obviously Sidious
Success: while Valkorion ruled for longer, it's much harder to topple the Republic than it is to just rule in secret in the outer rim
OOU quality as a villain: Sidious
The Adventurous JediLevel Seven
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 28th 2019, 5:55 pm
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:The Ellimist wrote:Force knowledge: Valkorion had like 15x the time, but Sidious learns much faster and had more resources. Valkorion likely has a greater amount of raw information, but I'd imagine it's close in terms of the most potent info.
Force Potential: Sidious clearly, given how quickly he reached his power level.
Sorcery: dunno
Intelligence: Sidious
Charisma: maybe Valkorion unless if you count the PT Palpatine persona
Political skill: obviously Sidious
Success: while Valkorion ruled for longer, it's much harder to topple the Republic than it is to just rule in secret in the outer rim
OOU quality as a villain: Sidious
- Master AzrongerModerator
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 29th 2019, 4:06 am
The Ellimist wrote:Force knowledge: Valkorion had like 15x the time, but Sidious learns much faster and had more resources. Valkorion likely has a greater amount of raw information, but I'd imagine it's close in terms of the most potent info.
The Emperor officially "gathered all the greatest lore of the Dark Side and collected it" and "plumbed depths of darkness unknown before. Coupled with the description of him studying the Force "in all its guises" and collecting "the greatest works of knowledge from over a million worlds," I find it very suspect Valkorion would have more Force knowledge than the Emperor.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 29th 2019, 5:53 am
Tenebrae stopped researching the dark side centuries prior to the game. He moved on, to bigger and better, more esoteric means of Force use. Hence inventing his own religion.
Ziggy
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 29th 2019, 2:08 pm
Force Knowledge and possibly sorcery might go to Valk. Sid in the rest.
PraxisModerator | Champion of the Light
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 29th 2019, 2:28 pm
Force knowledge: Valk maybe since he had a lot more time on his hands. Not really sure though.
Force Potential: Not sure.
Sorcery: Valk. This is his bread and butter and pretty much all he does.
Intelligence: Sheev. Played the galaxy like a fiddle during the Clone Wars.
Charisma: Valk. He has a lot more presence imo. The beard + the hair + the voice is god tier.
Political skill: Sheev for obvious reasons.
Success: Sheev. His plan actually succeed whereas Valk's did not.
OOU quality as a villain: Sheev. I like politics.
I see Sheev more as an expert manipulator who likes to hide his power level which I find to be a lot more interesting than Valk who is a lot less subtle.
Force Potential: Not sure.
Sorcery: Valk. This is his bread and butter and pretty much all he does.
Intelligence: Sheev. Played the galaxy like a fiddle during the Clone Wars.
Charisma: Valk. He has a lot more presence imo. The beard + the hair + the voice is god tier.
Political skill: Sheev for obvious reasons.
Success: Sheev. His plan actually succeed whereas Valk's did not.
OOU quality as a villain: Sheev. I like politics.
I see Sheev more as an expert manipulator who likes to hide his power level which I find to be a lot more interesting than Valk who is a lot less subtle.
- PraxisModerator | Champion of the Light
Re: Sidious vs. Valkorion - other categories
August 30th 2019, 3:29 pm
Actually I take some of this back after thinking about it for a little bit. I think I may have underestimated Valkorion's manipulation skills when I wrote this.
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