Stomper Showdown R3 #1 - Darth Angral (Darth Plagueis the Wise) vs Return! Darth Malgus (Janix)

The Might of Return

Lord Malgus, even before the Great Galactic War, is still a supreme warrior, being regarded as one of the greatest warriors in the Sith Empire.



Malgus's father also identified that the overseers of the Sith Academy held that Malgus' potential was exceptional.

Malgus's Father, Star Wars: The Third Lesson wrote:“Your instructors tell me they’ve seen few with your potential in the Force.”

Said potential led Malgus into becoming a defining force in the Great Galactic War.

Sixth Scale Figures: Darth Malgus wrote:At an early age, it was evident that there was a dark will behind young Veradun’s sensitivity to the Force. Acknowledging his impressive potential, his adoptive father arranged for Veradun to attend the Sith Academy on Dromund Kass where he would train under Sith Master Vindican. Now, having risen to the status of Sith Lord, dubbed Darth Malgus, he has become a formidable commander in the Imperial Army. Following his vision that he will be responsible for the fall of the Republic and its Jedi Order, Malgus takes his place as a defining force in the Great Galactic War.

His potential was such that he was the true heir of the Empire.



At the beginning of the Great Galactic War, Malgus was already a 'Vanguard' of the Sith Empire.





Being a notable Sith Warrior, Malgus possesses relentless tenacity and deadly lightsaber skills, as shown by his butchering of Kao Cen Darach.







Palpatine, a deeply knowledgeable Sith Lord, states that Malgus' feats have never been replicated.

Emperor Palpatine, Star Wars: Book of the Sith wrote:Through the principles of anger, I will structure and maintain my Empire. The writings of Darth Malgus confirm that anger, combined with will, is the key to power. When anger intensifies to rage, it is unstoppable. Malgus submitted utterly to the dark side, and doing so made him an exemplary warrior. His battlefield feats have never been duplicated.

When asked, Malgus cites his two most impressive feats as the Battle of Korriban and the Sacking of Coruscant.



This is backed up by Gnost-Dural, who claims Kao Cen Darach is one of Malgus' most distinguished kills.





Kao Cen Darach, as a Jedi Battlemaster, was responsible for the training of Lightsaber combat "among the Order's most promising students" and was the foremost champion against the Sith Empire (Such that he was placed on Korriban, where they knew the Empire would strike).




Return!Malgus is superior to Lord Vindican, defeating Kao Cen Darach and tanking Vindican's lightning. The Wrath also believes that the slaying of a Sith Master proves that the apprentice surpassed their predecessor, to which Malgus does not disagree.





Lord Vindican is credited by Malgus, even after sensing the assault on the Red Reaper, as being Darth Ikoral's greatest Apprentice.





Darth Malgus has great sensory abilities, making his assessment an accurate one. He has sensed bombs that the other Sith of his army could not, he sensed the deaths of thousands of individuals (being able to pinpoint specific people from the massacre), and repeatedly sensed a Jedi attempting to hide their presence from hundreds of meters away.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - A Third Lesson wrote:A sense of frustration that made him want to shout. His personal shuttle roared low over the scorched landscape. Below him, buildings and bodies smoldered in the ruins of an Alderaani town. Around him, Imperial ships prowled the sky, flying escort. He tried to unknot his fists, failed. He wanted-

The presence of a light-side Force user bumped up against his Force sensitivity, a sudden flare in his perception. He looked down and out the viewport. He saw nothing but charred ruins, rubbled buildings, burnt out vehicles. He pinched the comlink he wore.

“Turn us around.”

“My lord?” asked his pilot.

“Come about, cut speed to one quarter, and reduce altitude by one hundred meters.”

“Yes, my lord.”

As the shuttle wheeled around and slowed, Malgus overrode the safeties and lowered the landing ramp. Wind whipped into the cabin, carrying the smell of a charred planet, a planet Malgus had intended to kill, but instead had only wounded.

Someone had to pay for that.

He took the hilt of his lightsaber in hand and sank into the Force. The burned-out buildings below stuck out of the scorched earth like rotted teeth, crooked and black.

“Slower,” he said to the pilot.

He reached out through the Force, probing for the light-side presence he had felt.

At first there was nothing, and he wondered if he had been mistaken, or if the light-side user had perceived Malgus and suppressed his power. But then...
There.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - A Third Lesson wrote:Malgus relented in his attack, backed off a few steps, and reached out through the Force. Immediately he felt the faint, intentionally suppressed signature of another light-side user to his right. The Jedi’s ally was hidden in the rubble, moving closer.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - Deceived wrote:MALGUS FELT THE SIGNATURE of another Force-user, the uncomfortable pressure of the light side, and it pulled him to his feet. The pressure reminded him of how he’d felt in the presence of Master Zallow, and he knew that Aryn Leneer had come at last.

“Take the shuttle down to fifty meters,” he said, adrenaline already coursing through his body. “And when I exit, you may leave.”

“When you exit, my lord?”

Malgus did not respond. Instead, he overrode the in-flight safeties and pushed the button to open the side hatch. As the door slid open, as the night air poured in, redolent with the stink of a ruined Temple and a burned planet, he let anger fill him.

The ship descended to fifty meters. Below, the ruined Temple was dark, covered in the velvet of night. But he perceived the presence of Aryn Leneer as clearly as he would have under a noon sun.

He stepped to the doorway, drew on the Force, activated his lightsaber, and leapt out into the dark.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - Deceived wrote:MALGUS FELT A FLASH of discomfort, the irritating needle stab of a light-side user, the feeling oddly similar to that which he had felt when he’d fought Master Zallow in the Temple. The feeling lasted barely an instant and disappeared, leaving only a sensory ghost in its wake.

This, along with the obvious intent of Vindican being superior to Ikoral's students, places Lord Vindican above Lord Kherus, who engaged with the Act 3 Strike Team of the Republic or Imperial Sides in a multi-act sequence where he leaps from one side of the room to the other. This cinematic engagement along with him being a Flashpoint boss is enough to say he gave the Strike Team some prolonged trouble.



Grand Master Satele Shan states that Malgus as of Return is the most dangerous embodiment of the Dark Side she has ever encountered, which includes Darth Angral and Darth Baras.



All of this and more is greater than anything Darth Angral ever does, especially with his greatest feat being such that he dies to the Act 1 Hero of Tython with no parity shown at all.



Even the SWTOR Encylopedia takes a jab at Angral.




Return!Malgus >> Kao Cen Darach >> Lord Vindican > Lord Kherus ~ Causing Difficulties to an Act 3 Strike team > Dying Pathetically to Act 1 Hero

Malgus wins. No contest.

Janix wrote:"Said potential led Malgus into becoming a defining force in the Great Galactic War."

Under Darth Angral's command.

Janix wrote:"His potential was such that he was the true heir of the Empire."

Malgus' POV and shows his own arrogance.

Janix wrote:"At the beginning of the Great Galactic War, Malgus was already a 'Vanguard' of the Sith Empire."

Damn, guess he excelled and rose immensely through the ranks of the Empire, right?

Janix wrote:"Palpatine, a deeply knowledgeable Sith Lord, states that Malgus' feats have never been replicated."

Neither Palpatine nor Plagueis are knowledgeable about this era.


Imagine if Plagueis heard of Revan holding himself together or Vitiate using the same body for 1,000 years (and granting immortality to Dreadmasters and Scourge).

Revan by Drew Karpyshyn wrote:“Feel your mortality as it is stripped away.”
Scourge screamed as invisible claws tore at his insides, seemingly shredding his vital organs.
The heat in his chest had spread to the rest of his body; it felt as if his blood were made of fire. The agony became unbearable, and he shrieked and collapsed to the floor.
“The ritual cannot be undone,” the Emperor said as Scourge writhed and wept at his feet.
Through his torment, Scourge realized with dawning horror what the Emperor was saying. The ritual was over, but the searing heat and the rending of his insides continued unabated.
Focusing his will, he managed to still the convulsions racking his body. He forced himself to his knees, though every movement seemed to amplify the pain. Trembling, he rose to his feet and addressed the Emperor.
“How long will this anguish last?” he asked, his jaw clenched.
“As time passes you will learn to accept and endure your suffering,” the Emperor answered. “Your mind and body will find ways to deal with the pain. After many months you will become accustomed enough to it to function in your role as the Emperor’s Wrath. Eventually you will simply become numb, unable to feel anything at all.”
“Why?” Scourge asked, his voice something between a sob and a moan.
“Everything has a cost,” the Emperor explained. “This is the price of immortality.”

SWTOR Codex: Dreadmasters wrote:"The Dread Masters are powerful Sith Lords who have served the Sith Emperor for centuries as prophets, generals and advisors."

JO's knowledge of SWTOR isn't any better.

Janix wrote:"This is backed up by Gnost-Dural, who claims Kao Cen Darach is one of Malgus' most distinguished kills."

Did he kill any other named Jedi?

Janix wrote:"The Wrath also believes that the slaying of a Sith Master proves that the apprentice surpassed their predecessor, to which Malgus does not disagree."

Do you agree with this?

Janix wrote:"Lord Vindican is credited by Malgus, even after sensing the assault on the Red Reaper, as being Darth Ikoral's greatest Apprentice."

Malgus is biased toward his own former master, and likewise has little knowledge of Ikoral's whereabouts for the past 70 years.

SWTOR Codex:Darth Ikoral wrote:"For decades, Darth Ikoral’s name has been a byword for determination and sacrifice in the Sith Empire. Born into an old line of red-skinned, pureblooded Sith, Ikoral was able to trace his ancestry almost as far back as King Adas’s time. Ikoral survived many battles and trials, even earning the notice of the Emperor himself–but Ikoral claimed his achievements were merely proof of pureblood superiority. It was said that he was so devoted to purity that he would not even tolerate alien slaves in his household. Ikoral convinced the Dark Council to allow an expedition to search for pureblooded Sith outside the Empire–Sith who fled Korriban after the Great Hyperspace War and did not escape with the Emperor to Dromund Kaas. When Ikoral failed to return, he was celebrated as a martyr, but it seems Ikoral succeeded in his search. However, the Empire has changed in the last seventy years.Appalled by the Empire’s peace with the Republic and sickened by the appearance of aliens in the Sith Order, Darth Ikoral now leads his fellow purebloods to cleanse the galaxy by fire."

Janix wrote:"Darth Malgus has great sensory abilities, making his assessment an accurate one. He has sensed bombs that the other Sith of his army could not, he sensed the deaths of thousands of individuals (being able to pinpoint specific people from the massacre), and repeatedly sensed a Jedi attempting to hide their presence from hundreds of meters away."

Cool, not on the Red Reaper nor near it.

Janx wrote:"This cinematic engagement along with him being a Flashpoint boss is enough to say he gave the Strike Team some prolonged trouble."

This logic in itself necessitates little growth from Malgus up to False Emperor. Likewise, it places Lord Renning massively above Lord Vivicar, First Son, and Act 3 Voice. It also places Bask Sunn above  Unchained Vaylin and Arcann combatively.

Janix wrote:"Grand Master Satele Shan states that Malgus as of Return is the most dangerous embodiment of the Dark Side she has ever encountered, which includes Darth Angral and Darth Baras."

I'm curious as to how you combine this with her repeated statements regarding HoT and Angral.

Satele Shan wrote:"We've lost one of our noblest Masters, but in his place stands a Jedi without equal."

Satele Shan wrote:"But he also forged our greatest weapon against the darkness."

Perhaps she holds Act 1 Angral >> Malgus >/~ ToC Angral. I wouldn't, but its entirely possible that that's how she mentally views things.

Janix wrote:"All of this and more is greater than anything Darth Angral ever does, especially with his greatest feat being such that he dies to the Act 1 Hero of Tython with no parity shown at all."

Game got much easier as time has gone by. If you really want to sell this logic, I want you to say that Bask Sunn makes Vaylin his bitch and that Lord Renning can take the Act 3 Voice, First Son, and Lord Vivicar simultaneously. Likewise, this doesn't negate the fact that SWTOR makes significance of Kira's assistance twice.

Janix wrote:"Even the SWTOR Encylopedia takes a jab at Angral."

Not my problem that Darth Malgus repeatedly cucks to him after nearly 30 years of war growth.


Malgus attests to his own belief in growth through conflict.

Darth Malgus, Book of the Sith wrote:“The essential quality of the Force is conflict. Through conflict, the strong kill the weak and bring the living closer to perfection. The Sith Empire has served the Force by inciting conflict. But for true improvement to take place, I must at least give my soldiers a fighting chance against the enemies who seek to destroy them.”

Darth Malgus, Book of the Sith wrote:“Despite his allegiance to Jedi blasphemy, he at least appears to grasp the truth of improvement through combat.”

Deceived wrote:"The Sith and Jedi forces closed, Sith battle lust facing the calm of the Jedi, the floor of the Temple the arena where centuries of indeterminate strife would at last reach a conclusion. Those strong in the Force would survive and their understanding of the Force would evolve. Those weak in the Force would die."

Malgus as of Deceived has benefited from 28 years of war growth, and this is something that is consistently shown throughout the mythos.

Revenge of the Sith Adult Novelization by Matthew Stover (Line Edited by George Lucas and Howard Roffman) wrote:“Skywalker, by contrast, looked every bit the HoloNet hero he was supposed to be. He seemed to tower over his companions; as though he had somehow gotten even taller in the months since Mace had seen him last. His hair was tousled, his color was high, and his walk still had the grounded grace of a natural fighter, but there was something new in his physicality: in the way he moved his head, perhaps, of the way the weight of Palpatine’s arm on his shoulders seemed to belong there . . . or something less definable. Some new ease, new confidence. An aura of under power. Presence. Skywalker was not the same young man the Council had sent off to the Outer Rim five standard months ago.”

I. Jedi by Michael Stackpole wrote:“The Jedi Master looked at me and I felt electricity run through his blue-eyed gaze. When we had met before I had felt power in him, but now, after his experiences with the Emperor Reborn, his power had been redoubled. Physically he looked a bit haggard and worn, with the flesh around his eyes having tightened and wrinkles appearing at their corners. I knew we were the same age chronologically, but in experience he far surpassed me.”

Star Wars Databanks: Luke Skywalker wrote:”With each passing year, Luke grew more powerful in the Force, and his exploits in the Alliance gained a higher profile.”

The Sith Empire in itself is a meritocracy in which one's own power and achievements fuel their rise to fame.

SWTOR Explorer's Guide wrote:“Equally at home in a haunted tomb or the Imperial Court, an Inquisitor knows that everything revolves around power. The Empire is a meritocracy: There are those who are elevated because of their ability and those who are dismissed because of their failures; there are rulers and there are slaves."

SWTOR Codex: The Dark Council wrote:"Each is among the most powerful Sith in the galaxy; to hold a seat on the council is the highest honor and the greatest position of influence a Sith can attain. The individual members of the Dark Council control their own spheres of influence and pyramids of subordinate Sith–overall Imperial military strategy falls in the hands of one Dark Council member, while study of ancient artifacts falls into the hands of another. These spheres occasionally overlap, leading to conflict."

It is traditional for Sith to turn on their superior once they believe themselves to be greater than them in power.

SWTOR Codex: Lord Skar wrote:“A valiant general and unparalleled lightsaber duelist, many have marveled that Skar has never moved against his master. In truth, Skar finds the life of a scheming Sith Lord distasteful, and prefers the more visceral thrill of battle to the political machinations of a Darth. But that is not to say that Skar lacks ambition, and he has been responsible for his fair number of betrayals and dead rivals over the years.”

Likewise, per Darth Malgus himself, battlefield success leads to fame within the Sith Empire.

Darth Malgus, Book of the Sith wrote:“The pace of this battle has cost me favor with the Dark Council and Darth Angral. But I will emerge victorious, and my triumph will ensure my place in the army that strikes Coruscant.”

Darth Malgus, Book of the Sith wrote:“The Dark Council recognized the role I played in the planet’s defense and has informed me, through one of its agents, that I will not again experience a material shortage like the one that cost us Ord Radama.”

Yet by the time of the Battle of Coruscant, Malgus is actively bending the knee to Angral. This dynamic doesn't fit if one assumes that Malgus is greater than Angral. Likewise, it makes 0 sense for Malgus to cuck himself to Angral is Malgus is many times stronger than Angral.

Deceived wrote:"'I’m pleased to hear it. Now sit , Malgus.' Angral’s tone left no doubt that the words were not a suggestion.
Malgus picked his way through the artwork."

Deceived wrote:"Angral waved a hand dismissively. “No apologies are necessary. I solicited his report directly.”
Malgus did not know what to make of that and did not like that he did not know. “Directly? Why?”
“Do you believe that I owe you an explanation, Darth Malgus?”
Malgus had misstepped again. “No, my lord.”"

Deceived wrote:"Adraas placed his wine chalice on Angral’s desk. “An excellent vintage, Darth Angral. But right at the end of its cellar life.”
“I think so, too,” Angral said.
“Let things linger around overlong and they can turn rancid.”
“Agreed,” Angral said.
Malgus missed nothing, but could say nothing.
Adraas snapped his fingers as if he had just remembered something. “Oh! Darth Malgus, I do regret that I had to refuse your woman treatment aboard Steadfast. ”"

Deceived wrote:"Angral drew himself up to his full height. “You will, both of you, follow my commands without question or hesitation. I will deal harshly with any deviation from that order. Do you understand?”
Angral had directed the rebuke at both of them, but Malgus understood it to be intended for him.
“Yes, Darth Angral,” they said in unison.
“You are servants of the Empire.”
Malgus, stewing, said nothing.
“Both of you leave me, now,” Angral said.
Still seething, Malgus walked for the door. Adraas fell in a stride behind him."

Deceived wrote:"Malgus chuckled, the sound loud off the high ceiling. “You have foreseen it but you cannot stop it. You are a child, Adraas. And tonight you pay. Angral is not here to protect you. No one is.'”

Deceived wrote:"He did not need to be skilled in political maneuvering to understand that Angral ordering him into an unimportant role was a way of sending the clear message that he was out of favor. Angral had used him just long enough to ensure the success of the sacking of Coruscant, and now he was being edged aside in favor of Lord Adraas. In the span of a day he had gone from the conqueror of Coruscant to a second-tier Darth."

I do not see a reasonable explanation to dismiss a power dynamic between Angral and Malgus that does not end up with Angral >> Deceived Malgus. They are servants of a Sith Empire, where every position revolves around one's own personal power. Likewise, Malgus has had a plethora of opportunity to not only become Angral's own master, but to challenge him.



Likewise, the rate at which Malgus' own Force power is growing has accelerated with the end of Deceived.

Deceived wrote:"He resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it.
He had evolved. Nothing split his loyalties any longer. He served the Force and only the Force, and his understanding of it increased daily.
The growing power whirling around him, leaking through the lid of his control, made the suppression of his Force signature impossible. All at once he lowered all of the mental barriers, let the full force of his power roil around him."

Yet he never makes a move at Angral. He is still continuing to grow immensely, yet using your own methodology Malgus shouldn't be far off from Ikoral.


Within the prologue of the Jedi Knight storyline, the future HoT faces the fallen dark Jedi Bengel Morr in single combat and is triumphant. Bengel Morr is already convinced by this duel that the HoT is the most powerful Jedi alive and that he will destroy the Sith.







This is significant because Bengel Morr is a survivor from the Jedi Temple and the Battle of Coruscant as a whole. He isn't thinking "wow a Jedi that could defeat MALGUS!" but instead "you could destroy the entire Sith Order as a whole!" Likewise, Bengel Morr's opinion would support the stance of Prologue HoT >>> Ven Zallow ~< Deceived Malgus.

Total: 3600/3606 (Janix went 481 characters over the limit and I was granted an additional 481 characters to use myself).

Janix has been granted an extra 12 hours for his next post. Should he have not posted his response within 84 hours of my opener, I am considering it an automatic concession. Likewise, I will count it as a concession should he go over his character limit again.

@Janix has conceded so @Darth_Rymrgand wins