TCW Sidious > Lord Nyax ?

this quote is refering to TCW Sheev, clearly by the picture, 'Sith Ways' is basically another way of saying 'Darkside'
Nyax is a Dark Jedi, he uses the Darkside, i do not believe he is bound above anyone

'Modern Times' would extend up to Legacy




this is another very similar quote again stating 'Modern times' this is again from TCW and was reposted on Starwars.com

so would this put TCW Sheev above Nyax in raw power?, Im inclined to believe he is atm!

Firstly, given Chee’s word on supremacy quotes,  the viability of this accolade is null and void if it were referring to Nyax ( which it doesn’t).

Secondly, modern times would be referring to what would be classified as modern during the time of TCW Sidious.

So at best, this quote places him above people like Dooku which we already knew. At worst, it’s not viable at all.

Free yourself from the thought bomb of quotes, Nyax toasts 2 Sidious' at once. Probably caps out at 3-4

Trayus Marauder wrote:Firstly, given Chee’s word on supremacy quotes,  the viability of this accolade is null and void if it were referring to Nyax ( which it doesn’t).

Secondly, modern times would be referring to what would be classified as modern during the time of TCW Sidious.

So at best, this quote places him above people like Dooku which we already knew. At worst, it’s not viable at all.

i feel like chee only said that to leave some room for discussion, seeing as supremacy quotes are very widely accepted (except for TOR wankers) the source is OOU, the 'modern times' extends up to legacy era.

1. I don't think Nyax was ever canon, so I don't think it would be referring to him even if he shared the same era/time as Sidious in the EU. (Correct me if I am wrong)

2. I very much believe that this quote is specifying the present time rather than the era that you are thinking of.

VictreebelVictr wrote:1. I don't think Nyax was ever canon, so I don't think it would be referring to him even if he shared the same era/time as Sidious in the EU. (Correct me if I am wrong)

2. I very much believe that this quote is specifying the present time rather than the era that you are thinking of.

all of legends was canon so yes Nyax was canon, and Modern times from a OOU source would extend up to the most modern time in the known timeline thus including Nyax, thats the big question here

Vaelias wrote:

VictreebelVictr wrote:1. I don't think Nyax was ever canon, so I don't think it would be referring to him even if he shared the same era/time as Sidious in the EU. (Correct me if I am wrong)

2. I very much believe that this quote is specifying the present time rather than the era that you are thinking of.

all of legends was canon so yes Nyax was canon,

How is that so?

Vaelias wrote:and Modern times from a OOU source would extend up to the most modern time in the known timeline thus including Nyax, thats the big question here

Apologies, but what is OOU?

Given Luke by FOTJ is undeniably >>>> DE Palpatine, and Nyax wiped the floor with Luke, Nyax one-shots.

Sub Mace but above Nyax?

LadyKulvax wrote:Given Luke by FOTJ is undeniably >>>> DE Palpatine, and Nyax wiped the floor with Luke, Nyax one-shots.

This does not sound right. Characters grow and change over time but they do not become that powerful in comparison to those whom they defeated at some point as time passes by. The Alliance Commander for all his growth was still susceptible to Telekinetics of Darth Malgus for instance. Numerous players are mentally hooked to 'power progression mechanics of a game' to realize the obvious - many look surprised when a cutscene challenge their perception (there are videos on YouTube).

Palpatine cannot be a mook to Lord Nyax and even Luke Skywalker as of FOTJ, and same is true for a number of other powerhouses. Darth Krayt is superior to every Sith otherwise.

Luke as of DE is stronger than Sheev, Force Harmony Luke outright is more powerful. JA Luke is stated twice to be stronger than ever. He spends another 10 years developing his mental strength, by the Hand of Thrawn duology he is completely free of any hinderances.

Vaelias wrote:

Trayus Marauder wrote:Firstly, given Chee’s word on supremacy quotes,  the viability of this accolade is null and void if it were referring to Nyax ( which it doesn’t).

Secondly, modern times would be referring to what would be classified as modern during the time of TCW Sidious.

So at best, this quote places him above people like Dooku which we already knew. At worst, it’s not viable at all.

i feel like chee only said that to leave some room for discussion, seeing as supremacy quotes are very widely accepted (except for TOR wankers)  the source is OOU, the 'modern times' extends up to legacy era.

Just because something is widely accepted doesn't mean it aligns with logic. For example, in the relevant point in history, geocentrism was widely accepted even though we know it was entirely wrong.

Regardless of what you believe his motivation to be, Chee outlines that supremacy quotes covering vast eras are not applicable so this quote cannot possibly work in the way you believe it to.

Good thread

LadyKulvax wrote:Luke as of DE is stronger than Sheev, Force Harmony Luke outright is more powerful. JA Luke is stated twice to be stronger than ever. He spends another 10 years developing his mental strength, by the Hand of Thrawn duology he is completely free of any hinderances.

The underlined part is news to me.

I understand the remainder but 'power progression' is never exponential in the raw power context as time passes by unless their is some kind of plot device suggesting this to be the case like a 'mental conditioning' or such (being stronger than ever suggest a certain level of improvement from the past at most) - new abilities can be sourced over time which in turn shape the capacity of manipulating the external environment and/or combative effectiveness by and large. Living beings are born with a certain level of potential (Midichlorian Count) that they may or may not realize in full capacity in life - they continue to learn from their experiences nevertheless, and a time comes when aging catches up to most eventually. Luke Skywalker for all his hype and capabilities as of the FOTJ series, was vulnerable to applications of Force Drain as Darth Krayt showed (his father was less vulnerable to these applications in comparison at a young age courtesy of Ulic Qel-Droma). Just this revelation creates room for debate about what else he would be lacking in? No living being is unstoppable in the lore - like ever. Talent acquisition and accumulation vary across characters through time due to so many variables affecting them in life.

If things were black-and-white to that extent in the lore, Luke would have crushed Abeloth by himself and one-shotted Darth Krayt at the first opportunity. Abeloth in turn, in spite of being so long-lasting and everything stated about her, still fell to this duo in the end.

Authors do not commit to absolutism for good reason; they do not introduce characters that are all-powerful for real - what kind of story can be told in this way? There would be no story to tell.

LadyKulvax wrote:Luke as of DE is stronger than Sheev, Force Harmony Luke outright is more powerful. JA Luke is stated twice to be stronger than ever. He spends another 10 years developing his mental strength, by the Hand of Thrawn duology he is completely free of any hinderances.

What? no he isn't force harmony Luke is enough to defeat DE Sheevs Physical form which is a tiny fraction of the emperors true power
Oneness Luke + Leia is as strong as Sheev, that power is unquantifiable and nothing even suggest FOTJ Luke would have surpassed the strength of Oneness DE Luke + Leia, but that unquantifiable power is the power of Sheev, seeing as this iteration of sheev is not defined by his physical form it is very possible that the same could be said for other iterations of Sheev, albeit not to nearly the same degree of power, but its possible Sheev is always way ahead of everyone even people who contend with him, due to his physical power not being representative of his full power, this would make sense given the power of Plagueis.

KingKopecz wrote:Sub Mace but above Nyax?

maybe hes not even sub mace, we already know his physical power isn't representative of his full power in DE why could the same not be said for other iterations given this quote and many others seem to suggest his power should be far stronger than anyone else

S_W_LeGenD wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:Luke as of DE is stronger than Sheev, Force Harmony Luke outright is more powerful. JA Luke is stated twice to be stronger than ever. He spends another 10 years developing his mental strength, by the Hand of Thrawn duology he is completely free of any hinderances.

The underlined part is news to me.

I understand the remainder but 'power progression' is never exponential in the raw power context as time passes by unless their is some kind of plot device suggesting this to be the case like a 'mental conditioning' or such (being stronger than ever suggest a certain level of improvement from the past at most) - new abilities can be sourced over time which in turn shape the capacity of manipulating the external environment and/or combative effectiveness by and large. Living beings are born with a certain level of potential (Midichlorian Count) that they may or may not realize in full capacity in life - they continue to learn from their experiences nevertheless, and a time comes when aging catches up to most eventually. Luke Skywalker for all his hype and capabilities as of the FOTJ series, was vulnerable to applications of Force Drain as Darth Krayt showed (his father was less vulnerable to these applications in comparison at a young age courtesy of Ulic Qel-Droma). Just this revelation creates room for debate about what else he would be lacking in? No living being is unstoppable in the lore - like ever. Talent acquisition and accumulation vary across characters through time due to so many variables affecting them in life.

If things were black-and-white to that extent in the lore, Luke would have crushed Abeloth by himself and one-shotted Darth Krayt at the first opportunity. Abeloth in turn, in spite of being so long-lasting and everything stated about her, still fell to this duo in the end.

Authors do not commit to absolutism for good reason; they do not introduce characters that are all-powerful for real - what kind of story can be told in this way? There would be no story to tell.

but do you really think that, when luke is stated to have grown far more powerful, it would have included his oneness state? i feel like quotes like that are referring to his base power not oneness amped, and certainly not oneness amped + Leia whom in oneness may well be the same strength as Luke himself given her comparable Midichlorian count,
I feel like DE Oneness Luke + Leia may well be even more powerful than FOTJ Luke, and Oneness Luke + Leia basically = DE Sidious

VictreebelVictr wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

VictreebelVictr wrote:1. I don't think Nyax was ever canon, so I don't think it would be referring to him even if he shared the same era/time as Sidious in the EU. (Correct me if I am wrong)

2. I very much believe that this quote is specifying the present time rather than the era that you are thinking of.

all of legends was canon so yes Nyax was canon,

How is that so?

Vaelias wrote:and Modern times from a OOU source would extend up to the most modern time in the known timeline thus including Nyax, thats the big question here

Apologies, but what is OOU?

OOU = Out of Universe

and everything that was 'Star Wars' was canon before Disney bought it, unless it was 'Star Wars Infinities'

Vaelias wrote:
but do you really think that, when luke is stated to have grown far more powerful, it would have included his oneness state? i feel like quotes like that are referring to his base power not oneness amped, and certainly not oneness amped + Leia whom in oneness may well be the same strength as Luke himself given her comparable Midichlorian count,
I feel like DE Oneness Luke + Leia may well be even more powerful than FOTJ Luke, and Oneness Luke + Leia basically = DE Sidious

As far as I recall, 'oneness experience' is a special moment and it is rare for a character to be evaluated from this perspective. Jacen Solo was evaluated from this perspective by a historian of his time but the archives are never assumed to be complete for the historians of any age.

Ben Skywalker was able to unleash a blast of power that had sufficient kinetic punch to knock out a Frigate from orbit, in his oneness moment - the only oneness experience that I recall being somewhat quantifiable in writing. What kind of Frigate this would be is left to the imagination of readers. Ben's potential was deemed remarkable in his time. Now there are Force-users who have affected really big ships outside oneness moment(s).

It is made obvious that Luke was able to defeat Palpatine with support of his sister. Palpatine's clones were imperfect however, and he was in search for a suitable Force-sensitive host to be rebirthed in it. Circumstantial victory I would say.

S_W_LeGenD wrote:

Vaelias wrote:
but do you really think that, when luke is stated to have grown far more powerful, it would have included his oneness state? i feel like quotes like that are referring to his base power not oneness amped, and certainly not oneness amped + Leia whom in oneness may well be the same strength as Luke himself given her comparable Midichlorian count,
I feel like DE Oneness Luke + Leia may well be even more powerful than FOTJ Luke, and Oneness Luke + Leia basically = DE Sidious

As far as I recall, 'oneness experience' is a special moment and it is rare for a character to be evaluated from this perspective. Jacen Solo was evaluated from this perspective by a historian of his time but the archives are never assumed to be complete for the historians of any age.

Ben Skywalker was able to unleash a blast of power that had sufficient kinetic punch to knock out a Frigate from orbit, in his oneness moment - the only oneness experience that I recall being somewhat quantifiable in writing. What kind of Frigate this would be is left to the imagination of readers. Ben's potential was deemed remarkable in his time. Now there are Force-users who have affected really big ships outside oneness moment(s).

It is made obvious that Luke was able to defeat Palpatine with support of his sister. Palpatine's clones were imperfect however, and he was in search for a suitable Force-sensitive host to be rebirthed in it. Circumstantial victory I would say.

Yeh i agree, that is why i think its possible for DE Sheev to be > FOTJ Luke.
Oneness Leia is likely the same strength as Oneness Luke seeing as the force flows through their Midichlorians, (they both will have the same or very similar counts)
so basically DE Sheev is the same or very similar power as Luke + Leia in oneness, which is insane.

I think Crucible Luke is the only iteration of Luke that is > DE Sidious

KingofBlades wrote:Good thread

Why thank thee

Vaelias wrote:maybe hes not even sub mace, we already know his physical power isn't representative of his full power in DE why could the same not be said for other iterations given this quote and many others seem to suggest his power should be far stronger than anyone else

That wouldn't apply to CW Sidious

KingKopecz wrote:

Vaelias wrote:maybe hes not even sub mace, we already know his physical power isn't representative of his full power in DE why could the same not be said for other iterations given this quote and many others seem to suggest his power should be far stronger than anyone else

That wouldn't apply to CW Sidious

on what basis, there is only evidence for and pretty much nothing against.

Vaelias wrote:

KingKopecz wrote:

Vaelias wrote:maybe hes not even sub mace, we already know his physical power isn't representative of his full power in DE why could the same not be said for other iterations given this quote and many others seem to suggest his power should be far stronger than anyone else

That wouldn't apply to CW Sidious

on what basis, there is only evidence for and pretty much nothing against.

There's 0 evidence that CW Sidious exists as an energy like DE Sidious. It's all fanfic.

KingKopecz wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

KingKopecz wrote:

Vaelias wrote:maybe hes not even sub mace, we already know his physical power isn't representative of his full power in DE why could the same not be said for other iterations given this quote and many others seem to suggest his power should be far stronger than anyone else

That wouldn't apply to CW Sidious

on what basis, there is only evidence for and pretty much nothing against.

There's 0 evidence that CW Sidious exists as an energy like DE Sidious. It's all fanfic.

there isnt evidence no but it looks likely given that quote which literally should include Nyax, it also explains the how Anakin was no match for TCW Sidious yet he smacked Dooku, when Dooku should be on a level with sidious really, also explains how he is beaten in his physical form by mace and how yoda contends with him, when i actually should scale far above them