Darth Vader vs Darth Plagueis & Venamis (No G-Canon)

No George quotes, go

Even without George quotes, Vader's still in the mud, doesn't have any real respectable points of comparison. Probably better than Venamis, but Plagueis is still superior.

team 2 stomps

Venamis solos

Meatpants wrote:Even without George quotes, Vader's still in the mud, doesn't have any real respectable points of comparison.

He has the stuff putting him above his pre-suit self.

Still, Plagueis probably wins via MM.

Quite sure there’s just as many quotes saying the opposite as well. Either way, still irrelevant since Plagueis wins regardless.

Meatpants wrote:Quite sure there’s just as many quotes saying the opposite as well. Either way, still irrelevant since Plagueis wins regardless.

Why would Plagueis triumph over a Vader who is above KFV?

MM

KingofBlades wrote:In order for MM to be relevant offensively in a battle between force users, it would have to breach a force user's passive and active force defenses.

No, it wouldn't. It bypasses them by default.

Proof?

Even without G-Canon:

-Vader's accolades saying he's > Anakin are exceeded by quotes saying the opposite.
-He doesn't really have any points of comparison with the opposing combatants.
-He's capped by TPM Maul, Old Ben, ESB Luke, etc.

Vader still dies here, tbh.

Vader can definitely take Venamis and is honestly a better duelist than Plagueis. Though he loses to them both handily. Plagueis can probably take him 1v1

bait thread

SithSauce wrote:Vader can definitely take Venamis and is honestly a better duelist than Plagueis. Though he loses to them both handily. Plagueis can probably take him 1v1

Second this.

Arguable that Vader knows MM since it seems some of the imperial adepts know it as well. Shadow Guards can make whole functioning people with brains and organs and working blasters in a matter of seconds, and Vader is vastly above the Shadow Guards.

Either way, Plaguies feared table Vader and Sidious considered table Vader "the greatest Treasure of the sith" add in 20+ years of growth and your answer is straightforward. Not that you clowns would accept that answer.

@Jake

"There was a time I thought I was a pedo, but it turned out to be my OCD."

This is the only correct answer IMO

Vader still dies. G-Canon is anything but the only source for why Vader sucks.

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Vader still dies. G-Canon is anything but the only source for why Vader sucks.

Why does he suck?

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Vader still dies. G-Canon is anything but the only source for why Vader sucks.

@Blade_of_Dorin Instead of just appealing to the masses, can you actually explain why he sucks?

Palpatine views him as the greatest Jedi Killer of all time

Of all the monsters I have created, I still regard Darth Vader as something of a minor masterpiece. No, he was not an entirely alchemical creation, but he was my monster nevertheless. Even though he failed to live up to his full potential, there was much pleasure in transforming Anakin Skywalker from a bright-eyed, tousle-headed youth into the greatest Jedi killer of all time. Yes, he ultimately turned against his Master, as monsters sometimes do, but that was my fault, not his. Given the opportunity to create Vader again, I would, and with zeal.

-- Jedi Vs. Sith: The Essential Guide To The Force


Palpatine pontentially views him as a threat

He collected some of these Force adepts and took them to his citadel on Byss, where he initiated them in the powers of the dark side. All of those he taught, human or alien, were only taught enough to fulfilll Palpatine's wishes. He didn't want any of them rising up against him. Bad enough that Vader was as powerful as he was, though Palpatine was certain of Vader’s loyalty to the dark side.

-- The Essential Guide To Characters

Yes, Vader remained strong in the Force, but strong enough to succeed me? Never. Granted, he was strong enough to kill me. But that only lasted for so long.

-- Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide To The Force





He is mentioned as being one of the most powerful sith lords in history up there with the likes of Exar Kun and Darth Krayt

Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt.

-- Behind The Threat: Sith



According to Feris Ollen 18 BBY Vader can move faster than he'd seen anyone move except Yoda. And this would mean he is faster than early posr ROTS Kenobi

It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda.

-- Last Of The Jedi: Secret Weapon



Nick Rostu thinks Kar Vastor wouldn't stand a chance against Vader, the same Vastor who is solidly above CW era Mace Windu.

It didn't matter. There was no doubt in Nick's mind that, were Kar Vastor somehow to be pitted against Darth Vader, the feral Balawai renegade wouldn't stand a chance.

-- Coruscant Nights I:Jedi Twilight

Knightfall Vader vs Team: I'd say Vader. Venamis is weaklink. He dies immediantly and Plagueis can't defeat Vader.

Suit Vader vs Team: Plagueis wins easily. He doesn't need Venamis.