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Galan007
RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
April 25th 2020, 11:00 pm
Apologies if a similar topic exists(couldn't find anything like this in the search function.)
Anyway, I know in Legends many believe that Palpatine and Yoda were peers(with Palpatine perhaps having a slight edge in the Force, and Yoda perhaps having a slight edge in sabers), but canon seems to indicate that Palpatine > Yoda across the board...
The SW Databank states- "Darth Sidious overwhelmed Yoda with the destructive energy of the dark side, and the Jedi Master fled Coruscant.":
https://i.imgur.com/7nzC07o.jpg
Jedi vs. Sith (2016) initially states that the two were "equally fierce", but then goes on to state- "[Yoda] realized that he could not defeat Sidious this time.":
https://i.imgur.com/uPJC8WH.jpg
Galactic Maps (2016) states- "[Yoda] is unable to defeat the Sith Lord in combat.":
https://i.imgur.com/V6USqEt.jpg
The updated Character Encyclopedia (2016) states- "Even the diminutive Jedi's amazing strength and speed, however, are not a match for the devastating fury of a Sith Lord.":
https://i.imgur.com/FbL07II.jpg
Ultimate Star Wars (2019) states- "The full power of the light side and the dark side of the Force is on display during Yoda's clash with Emperor Palpatine. Outmatched, Yoda retreats...":
https://i.imgur.com/MAGKmAL.jpg
And Yoda's timeline in Ultimate Star Wars (2019) states- "Yoda tries to stop Palpatine, the new Emperor, from taking control. He loses, and barely escapes with his life.":
https://i.imgur.com/tfBV1KG.jpg
Moreover, the notion that Yoda "disarmed" Palpatine seems to be contradicted by Galaxy of Adventures (2019), wherein Palpatine is still shown with his saber in hand as he is about to begin hurling Senate pods at Yoda:
And this clip from GoA states- "[Palpatine] is even skilled enough with the dark side of the Force to defeat Jedi Grand Master Yoda in a lightsaber duel.":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kstNsp5n_eU&t=0m12s
...Implying that Palpatine likely was not disarmed at all, and may have purposefully sheathed his saber in favor of using his superior Force abilities against Yoda instead.
So my question is: do you guys know of any canon info that contradicts the notion that Palpatine's power/skill was simply superior to Yoda's as of RotS?
Anyway, I know in Legends many believe that Palpatine and Yoda were peers(with Palpatine perhaps having a slight edge in the Force, and Yoda perhaps having a slight edge in sabers), but canon seems to indicate that Palpatine > Yoda across the board...
The SW Databank states- "Darth Sidious overwhelmed Yoda with the destructive energy of the dark side, and the Jedi Master fled Coruscant.":
https://i.imgur.com/7nzC07o.jpg
Jedi vs. Sith (2016) initially states that the two were "equally fierce", but then goes on to state- "[Yoda] realized that he could not defeat Sidious this time.":
https://i.imgur.com/uPJC8WH.jpg
Galactic Maps (2016) states- "[Yoda] is unable to defeat the Sith Lord in combat.":
https://i.imgur.com/V6USqEt.jpg
The updated Character Encyclopedia (2016) states- "Even the diminutive Jedi's amazing strength and speed, however, are not a match for the devastating fury of a Sith Lord.":
https://i.imgur.com/FbL07II.jpg
Ultimate Star Wars (2019) states- "The full power of the light side and the dark side of the Force is on display during Yoda's clash with Emperor Palpatine. Outmatched, Yoda retreats...":
https://i.imgur.com/MAGKmAL.jpg
And Yoda's timeline in Ultimate Star Wars (2019) states- "Yoda tries to stop Palpatine, the new Emperor, from taking control. He loses, and barely escapes with his life.":
https://i.imgur.com/tfBV1KG.jpg
Moreover, the notion that Yoda "disarmed" Palpatine seems to be contradicted by Galaxy of Adventures (2019), wherein Palpatine is still shown with his saber in hand as he is about to begin hurling Senate pods at Yoda:
And this clip from GoA states- "[Palpatine] is even skilled enough with the dark side of the Force to defeat Jedi Grand Master Yoda in a lightsaber duel.":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kstNsp5n_eU&t=0m12s
...Implying that Palpatine likely was not disarmed at all, and may have purposefully sheathed his saber in favor of using his superior Force abilities against Yoda instead.
So my question is: do you guys know of any canon info that contradicts the notion that Palpatine's power/skill was simply superior to Yoda's as of RotS?
Gianfi
Re: RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
April 26th 2020, 5:24 am
Does canon also say that Mace legit beat SId?
Rohirrim
Re: RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
April 26th 2020, 7:39 am
@Galan007:
It depends on what you consider canon info. The RotS junior novelization has Yoda disarming Sidious and is collected here: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Prequel_Trilogy. Would you say it is canon? It was published by Disney-Lucasfilm press after the split and without the Legends banner, but I have a feeling that those events are not included in the Holocron continuity database, and that they are not considered as story facts that inform new storytelling projects. I wouldn't be surprised if a completely different depiction of the offscreen portion of the fight showed up in the future.
Master AzrongerModerator
Re: RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
April 26th 2020, 7:47 am
@Rohirrim Disney has republished many Legends stories after the split. I wouldn't say that makes them Canon.
Latham2000Level Three
Re: RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
April 26th 2020, 7:48 am
Rohirrim wrote:@Galan007:It depends on what you consider canon info. The RotS junior novelization has Yoda disarming Sidious and is collected here: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Prequel_Trilogy. Would you say it is canon? It was published by Disney-Lucasfilm press after the split and without the Legends banner, but I have a feeling that those events are not included in the Holocron continuity database, and that they are not considered as story facts that inform new storytelling projects. I wouldn't be surprised if a completely different depiction of the offscreen portion of the fight showed up in the future.
Retcons do happen, the canon RotS junior novel was published in May 2014, whereas the clip from Galaxy of Adventures stating that Palpatine won the lightsaber contest is from 2019, so there's the reconciliation. And if we want to be highly technical, in the junior novel Yoda only disarms Palpatine by abruptly increasing the tempo of his attack in a random moment during their duel, which is a speed feat, not a finesse feat, and Yoda achieved that feat whilst they were both fighting in the senate pods, which restricted both their movements, so whether Yoda would be able to successfully replicate the same tactic for victory against Palpatine on neutral ground is doubtful.
- Galan007
Re: RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
April 26th 2020, 7:49 am
Just a couple implications, but nothing overly definitive.Gianfi wrote:Does canon also say that Mace legit beat SId?
- Rohirrim
Re: RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
April 26th 2020, 7:55 am
@Azronger: That's right, it's just that when they republish Legends stories, they typically use this banner:
This one was also published with the Disney logo, under Disney-Lucasfilm Press. Again, I don't think they are considered as part of the continuity, but I'd argue it's somewhat confusing.
This one was also published with the Disney logo, under Disney-Lucasfilm Press. Again, I don't think they are considered as part of the continuity, but I'd argue it's somewhat confusing.
- Galan007
Re: RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
April 26th 2020, 8:00 am
Yeah, the canonicity of the Junior novels is pretty dubious(imo), but even IF it's canon, wouldn't the more recent info still take precedence over it?
- Rohirrim
Re: RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
April 26th 2020, 8:07 am
@Galan007: Maybe. The bits depicted in Galaxy of Adventures could very well be a retcon (or the first canon info on what really happened), but they could also just be different from the actual thing in the same way that the other fights (Vader vs Luke, Yoda vs Dooku, etc) were reimagined. Though I would agree that the quote saying Sidious is capable of defeating Yoda in a lightsaber duel is consistent with all the canon quotes that say Sidious proved to be superior in the fight.
xmysticgohanx
Re: RotS Palpatine > RotS Yoda
May 6th 2020, 8:29 pm
This is the first time I hear of Galaxy of Adventures. Interesting that they reimagined those fights too. I wonder what that meansRohirrim wrote:@Galan007: Maybe. The bits depicted in Galaxy of Adventures could very well be a retcon (or the first canon info on what really happened), but they could also just be different from the actual thing in the same way that the other fights (Vader vs Luke, Yoda vs Dooku, etc) were reimagined. Though I would agree that the quote saying Sidious is capable of defeating Yoda in a lightsaber duel is consistent with all the canon quotes that say Sidious proved to be superior in the fight.
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