Vader vs Yoda

is there a way to make this fight more even?

@lorenzo.r.2nd: Force only maybe?

I haven't seen ROS but if Vader is approaching sidious tier in rotj, well surely the feats sheev has when he's in the chair in a weakened state would apply to Vader no?

i watched, and i havent see anything that implies that fcuked up sheev ROS < ROTJ sheev, to be honest, so i dont think so.

@rohirrim i can do that

Also if you respond to me, do so in a vague manner because not only have I not seen the movie, but spoilers aren't cool, I left discord because Ant bullied me off afterall

Close fight I'll go with Yoda

Rohirrim wrote:@Cheth: Vader still is at a massive disadvantage against Yoda's mobility.

Vader has fought mobile opponents before. Makes up for it with massive tankiness and a possible force advantage

Yoda probably one-shots him, given that even Canon Vader has quotes like these;

Obi-Wan’s moves were slowed by age and lack of practice; Darth Vader - recalling the grievous injuries he suffered during their last encounter - fought his former Master with apprehension, while his cybernetic body reduced his actions.

Star Wars: Lightsabers - A Guide to Weapons of the Force (2018)

Although he had been only briefly instructed by Yoda, Luke Skywalker showed great ability in the Force during his duel with Darth Vader on Bespin. He had enough strength to challenge Vader, but Luke was far too hasty.

Star Wars: Lightsabers - A Guide to Weapons of the Force (2018)

Father and son dueled again, and this time Luke knocked Vader off-balance. But Luke didn’t press his advantage. He backed away, refusing to fight, and once again pleaded with his father to let go of his hate.

Star Wars: Darth Vader: Sith Lord

While Yoda has ones like this;

There were many famous Jedi throughout the years. The wisest and most powerful Jedi of all was Grand Master Yoda

Star Wars: Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi - The Power of the Force

Vader has a quote that says he is the most dangerous being alive, and another that calls him the storngest sith in the galaxy. im sure he can survive well enough in this fight.

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:Vader has a quote that says he is the most dangerous being alive, and another that calls him the storngest sith in the galaxy. im sure he can survive well enough in this fight.

Here is some quotes i could find:

Through his veins courses the bloodline of the most powerful Jedi and Sith, and Ren sees it as his birthright to rule the weaker beings in the galaxy.

-- The Force Awakens Visual Dictionary

[size=38]"...Even as they trained me, molded me into a weapon to confront and destroy their greatest enemy--my father."

[/size]

-- The Last Jedi Comic 1

[size=38]Come, Darth Vader, you of all people should accept that some are born for greatness. That some are larger than life.”
Vader remained silent.
“Yes, Lord Vader—Tarkin.” Sidious softened his tone. “You are a true Sith, Lord Vader. Your dedication is unerring and your powers unparalleled. Perhaps, however, you are under the misimpression that only Sith and Jedi have trials to pass.”[/size]

-- Tarkin

there are two more. one of them is from the fallen order game that calls him the strongest sith in the galaxy, and the most dangerous being alive is from that comic in which he is being hunted by the cyborg guy

Don't bother responding to Jake, he's just going to find excuses to lowball Vader even more. That's what he does best

@Jake Considering the New Canon is pushing the idea that you don't have to be trained much to be  powerful with the force or good with a saber. Using those quotes to suggest Vader could get one shot by Yoda just because ESB Luke somewhat challenged him is sculag

None of these quotes really make Vader look bad. Vader cybernetics reducing his actions is a known fact but it doesn't mean he is a bad combatant, only that his agility is worse than it could have been if the Mustafar duel didn't happened. The quote also confirms he fought his master with apprehension because of his painfull memories. Acording to the short story Time of Death Ben was completly outclassed by Vader. So a Vader who fought with apprehension completly dominated an oponent who threeshooted Maul. 
The second quote only confirms that Luke chalanged 
Vader, but we don't know to what extent. Even Fisto chalanged Sidious to some extent
The third is about their ROTJ duel where Luke was allready a powerfull jedi. Is just a good feat for him. Also, acording to The legend of Luke Skywalker Luke pulled star destroyers from the sky at the battle of Jakku, only one year after ROTJ. 
Yoda being the most powerful jedi is good for him but why would this make him stomp Vader?

Kenobi three shotted Maul due to a variety of factors not present in a standard duel. The showing can't be used for anything lol, especially when Vader himself can't stomp Ahsoka, a sub Maul opponent.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Kenobi three shotted Maul due to a variety of factors not present in a standard duel. The showing can't be used for anything lol, especially when Vader himself can't stomp Ahsoka, a sub Maul opponent.

Sure, there were circumstances. Ben was still clearly superior and more powerfull acording to Filoni. 
Ahsoka being sub Rebels Maul is very suspect when teenager Ahsoka is going to give TCW Maul a good fight. The starwars.com only confirms that the plan was to put the weakest (Ezra) with the strongest (Maul in their opinion) We don't know if their opinion is correct. The last time Ahsoka saw Maul was during the siege of Manadalore. Why would she know that Maul is past his prime. If anything, she might have thought he is even more powerfull considering he lived on a planet full of sith lore for years. Also, rebels Maul being past his prime is not officialy confirmed. Matt Martin's opinion is not canon acording to himself. Matt Martin also said that in his opinion TCW Maul is past his prime.

I doubt Canon Ahsoka is sub-Maul.

HellfireUnit wrote:I doubt Canon Ahsoka is sub-Maul.

Yeh, considering Filoni himself implied she is better than Maul

SithSauce wrote:@Jake Considering the New Canon is pushing the idea that you don't have to be trained much to be  powerful with the force or good with a saber. 

This is kinda lurdo, not gonna lie.

Wow, I can't even use lurdo?..

Good argument, power and training doesn't matter now. Thanks!

@DarthAdi The last time Ahsoka saw Maul was during the siege of Manadalore. Why would she know that Maul is past his prime. If anything, she might have thought he is even more powerfull considering he lived on a planet full of sith lore for years. Also, rebels Maul being past his prime is not officialy confirmed. Matt Martin's opinion is not canon acording to himself. Matt Martin also said that in his opinion TCW Maul is past his prime.

Not sure what the consensus is among creators, but I doubt starwars.com would allow a writer to post something like this without it being approved;

There’s not a single moment here, but a progression of moments that honestly blew me away. When we first meet him, this “Old Master” is frail, hesitant, even fearful. As the story continues, you see those traits melt away, but there’s a flow to it. The more Ezra trusts, the more Maul becomes himself until, finally, he’s at full strength and more powerful than ever. 

Starwars.com - Ranking Rebels: Twilight of the Apprentice (link)


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Training matters, but it doesn't take that long for a gifted apprentice to become a competent warrior. Ahsoka went from Youngling to contending with Maul in three years, Cal Kestis went from sub-Padawan to contending with a dark Jedi Master in less than a year, and Rey went from nobody to contending with Kylo Ren in less than a year too.

thats the first time ive seen that quote. so old maul becomes stronger than SOD maul after some times passes? thats kinda dope tbh. i did think it was weird that he became weaker simply cuz he was mentally karked, somewhat, but now its kinda confirmed at least

Rohirrim wrote:Training matters, but it doesn't take that long for a gifted apprentice to become a competent warrior. Ahsoka went from Youngling to contending with Maul in three years, Cal Kestis went from sub-Padawan to contending with a dark Jedi Master in less than a year, and Rey went from nobody to contending with Kylo Ren in less than a year too.

None of these examples are anywhere near as extreme as ESB Luke challenging Yoda, the most powerful Jedi ever, which would have to be the case if you put Vader next to him. But hey if that’s the hill you want to die on, go ahead.

Jake wrote:None of these examples are anywhere near as extreme as ESB Luke challenging Yoda, the most powerful Jedi ever, which would have to be the case if you put Vader next to him. But hey if that’s the hill you want to die on, go ahead.

I'm not trying to imply Luke would be a challenge to Yoda, I'm just stablishing that other, arguably much less talented Jedi have improved enormously in a relatively short period of time.

Still, any challenge Luke might have posed to Vader is a result of the Sith Lord deciding not to destroy Luke whenever he had a chance to do so. The following quotes indicate there was no relativity at all:

The experienced Sith Lord easily defeats the untrained Skywalker, chopping off his right hand. 
- Star Wars: Galactic Atlas.


"You'll find that I am full of surprises," luke said, but he was posturing. He was no match for the Sith Lord. 
- The Empire Strikes Back - 6 stories in 1.

Luke dueled Vader, but proved no match for the Sith Lord's Force powers and experience with a lightsaber.
- Luke Skywalker Biography Gallery, starwars.com.