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The Witness
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 1:41 pm
Great post
NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 2:14 pm
Excellent post.
xoltholLevel Five
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 5:09 pm
@King Joker Really good opener. Well done!
King JokerLevel One
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 6:07 pm
Thanks, guys!
IGLevel Four
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 6:29 pm
Excellent
BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 6:33 pm
I'll probably have my opener up by tomorrow. Still fairly new to SS's (this is my second) so it probably won't be very good, though. And don't worry: the Darth Vader "fights" won't even be referenced.
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 7:52 pm
@King Joker Are we including quotes and accolades in the word limit?
- King JokerLevel One
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 7:53 pm
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 8:54 pm
Section 1: Lightsaber skill
This is where Ahsoka’s edge is believed to be. While I agree that managing to avoid being overwhelmed by Grievous at such a young age is an incredible feat, this does not in any way overshadow Ezra’s. Throughout Rebels, we see him hold his own against exceptionally skilled Jedi, including blocking hits from the Grand Inquisitor himself (a figure second only to Vader):
Second only to Darth Vader, the Grand Inquisitor was himself a Jedi expert.
-- http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-101-servants-of-the-dark-side
This is at the end of season 1, where Ezra’s actual training has barely begun. Even here, he’s able to react to the GI and block several of his blows.
Fast forward to season 2, and Ezra’s skill has improved leaps and bounds. Whatever your opinion of the Inquisitors, the fact remains that they are all former Jedi, who have gone through the exact same training as Ahsoka and also have age and experience on their side:
Despite this, near the end of season 2 Ezra is able to go toe to toe with some of the best of them, including the Seventh Sister:
And the Fifth Brother (note that the two were fighting in the background for several seconds of the Kanan vs 7th Sister fight and were still at it when Ezra got distracted with saving Kanan):
Both times, Ezra is shown to be holding them off, with no advantage being displayed by either. Ezra at this point is around 15 years old, before he underwent pretty considerable growth, and yet he’s already capable of holding off more experienced and physically superior like the Fifth Brother, who he blocked a leaping downwards strike from despite being distracted by Force throwing Kanan:
Bear in mind that the Fifth Brother has matched Zeb Orrelios in raw strength seemingly without the Force, a Lasat who could one-shot stormtroopers in their armour and send people flying with his throws.
Ezra also has the distinction of being one of only 4 beings so far in Rebels who’s matched (or overcome) season 2 Kanan in lightsaber combat, alongside Ahsoka, Maul and Vader. While he’s obviously nowhere near their Maul or Ahsoka level, let alone Vader level and despite the fact that Kanan was most likely holding back, it’s important to note that the two have consistently stalemated in their sparring matches:
“Tied again?”
“There’s no such thing as a tie. You lose, you die.”
- Ezra and Kanan, Twilight of the Apprentice.
What makes this feat even more impressive? This is Kanan after learning to release his attachments in order to defeat the Grand Inquisitor. On top of this, Kanan has held the upper hand against the Fifth Brother and matched the Seventh Sister every time they’ve fought. Considering that she’s resorted to exploiting advantages like the Fifth Brother exploiting a gap in Kanan’s defences or through the use of droids, it’s made clear that the two are either relatively equal or Kanan is a superior swordsman.
This sparring match takes place after Ezra held his own against both the Seventh Sister and the Fifth Brother in saber combat, suggesting that Ezra has once again grown. While I won’t argue that he’s equal to Kanan as Kanan is simply more impressive and logically more powerful, the fact that he’s able to match his own master after he went through growth that could be sensed from a great distance away by the Fifth Brother and reaffirmed by Vader himself
“The Jedi are growing in their power.”
“It will be their undoing.”
- 5th Brother and Darth Vader, Shroud of Darkness.
...suggests that Ezra has come a long way as a duelist, and this is without even factoring in his growth between seasons 2 and 3 (more on that later), which saw him performing feats like annihilating hallways full of stormtroopers with a mix of martial skill and power.
Finally Ezra has managed to actually hold an edge over the Seventh Sister on Malachor:
One common argument against this is that Ezra was tapping heavily into his emotions, which is true. However, we also have to consider that this version of Ezra is long before his prime in season 4. He’s yet to go through the same growth, training and struggles that will make him a much stronger Force user than he is at this point, and yet he’s still able to match one of the most skilled inquisitors in saber combat and even hold the advantage while tapping into his emotions.
Based on all of these showings against beings with not only similar training to Ahsoka but also benefiting from experience, greater power and training under Vader himself, I believe that season 2 Ezra alone is able to contend with Ahsoka in sabers, though which way it would go I can’t say. Coupled with his skill and power growth in both seasons 3 and 4, and I believe he would take this.
Section 2: Force power
This is where I believe Ezra possesses an edge over Ahsoka. Like her, he’s recognised as having great potential and “remarkable strength with the Force”:
“The Force is strong in Ezra-he has the potential to become a powerful Jedi if he works hard.”
Kanan had never completed his Jedi training. While in hiding, he’d denied his Force abilities and battled his guilt over his inability to save his master. But that changed when he encountered a thieving orphan named Ezra Bridger, who possessed remarkable strength with the Force.
- Starwars.com/kanan-jarrus
However, unlike Ahsoka we have clear signs of his growth in power even before his substantial growth in season 3, and grew considerably again between seasons 3 and 4:
“The Jedi are growing in their power.”
“It will be their undoing.”
- 5th Brother and Darth Vader, Shroud of Darkness.
“Last time I couldn’t see you.”
“Ah, growing your abilities are.”
- Ezra and Yoda, Shroud of Darkness.
"I feel his abilities are growing faster than I can teach him."
- Kanan to Yoda, Path of the Jedi.
-
Having established a secret base on Atollon, the Ghost crew, now led by a more powerful Ezra, strengthens the rebel fleet by acquiring new resources and recruits eager to stand against the Empire.
Ezra has already shown great power in the Force even before his training, such as sending Agent Kallus flying without any prior training and knocking him out:
And again:
It’s worth noting that Kallus could take blows from Zeb, whose strength has also been briefly covered before.
In season 2, he also catches Hondo with the Force, negating (with difficulty) the forwards momentum of the cart he’s sitting on and immediately stopping him in place:
For reference, the cart was moving at this speed, propelling Hondo fast enough that he moved as a blur:
The final two feats I’ll use for this section of the post involve the season 4 finale, where Ezra not only manages to utterly demolish the Lothal gateway, but throws the wreckage as debris with one hand while trapped and in immense pain:
And the wave appears to encompass most of the debris from the gateway, which is a pretty insane power, mastery and control feat for Ezra:
Note the blur at the bottom is where the rocks were moving up but I couldn’t get it slow enough to get a clear shot.
Based on this, I believe that Ezra’s season 1 and 2 feats, despite his lack of training hindering the extent of them, are comparable to Ahsoka’s best feats from when she was 14, from ragdolling fodder to lifting objects. Along with his considerable growth between seasons 2 and 3, as well as his further growth by the Rebels finale after all of the trials he went through in seasons 3 and 4, I believe that Ezra is firmly superior to Ahsoka in raw power, matching each of her Force feats and even surpassing several of her TK feats by the end of Rebels.
Section 3: Ezra’s lack of formal training
I’ve heard this being chucked around a lot, and you yourself rely heavily upon this throughout your post. However, I personally don’t believe this is a hindrance for Ezra. In fact, I actually believe that this has helped him as a combatant, allowing him to think outside the box rather than from a more Jedi mindset. While I know that this is true of Ahsoka as well, I’ve actually been just as impressed by Ezra’s ingenuity as Ahsoka’s, if not more so.
Examples of Ezra’s lack of training benefitting him:
Creating a blaster-lightsaber which helps to compensate for the lightsaber’s lack of range:
Upon his surprise discovery of a kyber crystal in Lothal's secret Jedi Temple, Ezra Bridger built his own lightsaber. Using gear and materials gifted him by his friends, Ezra's lightsaber has a more utilitarian appearance than a typical Jedi weapon. It also has a hidden feature: Ezra built in a firing mechanism, allowing his lightsaber to shoot stun blasts.
Making use of animals to gain an edge over far stronger or more skilled opponents:
Using the Force to dominate an AT-DP pilot, make him kill his fellow troops, then commit suicide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsOSArjDWuU&feature=emb_title
Communicating with Purgils to defeat Thrawn and his entire armada:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3ineJFrOJs
Bear in mind that this is Grand Admiral Thrawn who Ezra just outmaneuvered in tactical warfare by relying on his street smarts and unconventional methods, which in itself stands as a huge testament to his ingenuity. Honestly, I’ve never seen Ahsoka come up with anything even remotely reaching this scale of ingenuity by herself. The only thing that comes close is when she broke the blockade around Ryloth, and this was not only largely Anakin’s achievement, but also a case of dealing with forces in disarray.
I also believe that the formal training Ahsoka has received is overstated as a factor here. While obviously she is a far more rounded Jedi, Ezra was raised on the streets, learning how to survive from the moment he was born. Unlike Ahsoka, Ezra didn’t have the simple yet comfortable life of a Jedi, and has developed street smarts and ingenuity that can only be obtained by someone who’s spent their lives scrounging to survive. Much like Anakin, Ezra’s training, power growth and skill have all been centred around the concept of warfare, rather than the traditional Jedi training which involves both the pursuit of knowledge and peace as well as defence.
Summary
While obviously he lacks the formal training of Ahsoka, like her he’s been in tough situations against very skilled and dangerous opponents before and managed to either triumph or at the very least survive, and has actually thrived without the training of the Jedi that would have constrained his abilities. I believe that his combination of proficient lightsaber skill, comparable if not superior Force feats and ingenuity will give him the edge he needs to actually overcome Ahsoka.
Characters: 9,179.
This is where Ahsoka’s edge is believed to be. While I agree that managing to avoid being overwhelmed by Grievous at such a young age is an incredible feat, this does not in any way overshadow Ezra’s. Throughout Rebels, we see him hold his own against exceptionally skilled Jedi, including blocking hits from the Grand Inquisitor himself (a figure second only to Vader):
Second only to Darth Vader, the Grand Inquisitor was himself a Jedi expert.
-- http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-101-servants-of-the-dark-side
This is at the end of season 1, where Ezra’s actual training has barely begun. Even here, he’s able to react to the GI and block several of his blows.
Fast forward to season 2, and Ezra’s skill has improved leaps and bounds. Whatever your opinion of the Inquisitors, the fact remains that they are all former Jedi, who have gone through the exact same training as Ahsoka and also have age and experience on their side:
Despite this, near the end of season 2 Ezra is able to go toe to toe with some of the best of them, including the Seventh Sister:
And the Fifth Brother (note that the two were fighting in the background for several seconds of the Kanan vs 7th Sister fight and were still at it when Ezra got distracted with saving Kanan):
Both times, Ezra is shown to be holding them off, with no advantage being displayed by either. Ezra at this point is around 15 years old, before he underwent pretty considerable growth, and yet he’s already capable of holding off more experienced and physically superior like the Fifth Brother, who he blocked a leaping downwards strike from despite being distracted by Force throwing Kanan:
Bear in mind that the Fifth Brother has matched Zeb Orrelios in raw strength seemingly without the Force, a Lasat who could one-shot stormtroopers in their armour and send people flying with his throws.
Ezra also has the distinction of being one of only 4 beings so far in Rebels who’s matched (or overcome) season 2 Kanan in lightsaber combat, alongside Ahsoka, Maul and Vader. While he’s obviously nowhere near their Maul or Ahsoka level, let alone Vader level and despite the fact that Kanan was most likely holding back, it’s important to note that the two have consistently stalemated in their sparring matches:
“Tied again?”
“There’s no such thing as a tie. You lose, you die.”
- Ezra and Kanan, Twilight of the Apprentice.
What makes this feat even more impressive? This is Kanan after learning to release his attachments in order to defeat the Grand Inquisitor. On top of this, Kanan has held the upper hand against the Fifth Brother and matched the Seventh Sister every time they’ve fought. Considering that she’s resorted to exploiting advantages like the Fifth Brother exploiting a gap in Kanan’s defences or through the use of droids, it’s made clear that the two are either relatively equal or Kanan is a superior swordsman.
This sparring match takes place after Ezra held his own against both the Seventh Sister and the Fifth Brother in saber combat, suggesting that Ezra has once again grown. While I won’t argue that he’s equal to Kanan as Kanan is simply more impressive and logically more powerful, the fact that he’s able to match his own master after he went through growth that could be sensed from a great distance away by the Fifth Brother and reaffirmed by Vader himself
“The Jedi are growing in their power.”
“It will be their undoing.”
- 5th Brother and Darth Vader, Shroud of Darkness.
...suggests that Ezra has come a long way as a duelist, and this is without even factoring in his growth between seasons 2 and 3 (more on that later), which saw him performing feats like annihilating hallways full of stormtroopers with a mix of martial skill and power.
Finally Ezra has managed to actually hold an edge over the Seventh Sister on Malachor:
One common argument against this is that Ezra was tapping heavily into his emotions, which is true. However, we also have to consider that this version of Ezra is long before his prime in season 4. He’s yet to go through the same growth, training and struggles that will make him a much stronger Force user than he is at this point, and yet he’s still able to match one of the most skilled inquisitors in saber combat and even hold the advantage while tapping into his emotions.
Based on all of these showings against beings with not only similar training to Ahsoka but also benefiting from experience, greater power and training under Vader himself, I believe that season 2 Ezra alone is able to contend with Ahsoka in sabers, though which way it would go I can’t say. Coupled with his skill and power growth in both seasons 3 and 4, and I believe he would take this.
Section 2: Force power
This is where I believe Ezra possesses an edge over Ahsoka. Like her, he’s recognised as having great potential and “remarkable strength with the Force”:
“The Force is strong in Ezra-he has the potential to become a powerful Jedi if he works hard.”
Star Wars Rebels Visual Guide
Kanan had never completed his Jedi training. While in hiding, he’d denied his Force abilities and battled his guilt over his inability to save his master. But that changed when he encountered a thieving orphan named Ezra Bridger, who possessed remarkable strength with the Force.
- Starwars.com/kanan-jarrus
However, unlike Ahsoka we have clear signs of his growth in power even before his substantial growth in season 3, and grew considerably again between seasons 3 and 4:
“The Jedi are growing in their power.”
“It will be their undoing.”
- 5th Brother and Darth Vader, Shroud of Darkness.
“Last time I couldn’t see you.”
“Ah, growing your abilities are.”
- Ezra and Yoda, Shroud of Darkness.
"I feel his abilities are growing faster than I can teach him."
- Kanan to Yoda, Path of the Jedi.
-
Having established a secret base on Atollon, the Ghost crew, now led by a more powerful Ezra, strengthens the rebel fleet by acquiring new resources and recruits eager to stand against the Empire.
Ezra has already shown great power in the Force even before his training, such as sending Agent Kallus flying without any prior training and knocking him out:
And again:
It’s worth noting that Kallus could take blows from Zeb, whose strength has also been briefly covered before.
In season 2, he also catches Hondo with the Force, negating (with difficulty) the forwards momentum of the cart he’s sitting on and immediately stopping him in place:
For reference, the cart was moving at this speed, propelling Hondo fast enough that he moved as a blur:
The final two feats I’ll use for this section of the post involve the season 4 finale, where Ezra not only manages to utterly demolish the Lothal gateway, but throws the wreckage as debris with one hand while trapped and in immense pain:
- For reference, the gateway is this big, with Sidious in front of it for comparison:
And the wave appears to encompass most of the debris from the gateway, which is a pretty insane power, mastery and control feat for Ezra:
Note the blur at the bottom is where the rocks were moving up but I couldn’t get it slow enough to get a clear shot.
Based on this, I believe that Ezra’s season 1 and 2 feats, despite his lack of training hindering the extent of them, are comparable to Ahsoka’s best feats from when she was 14, from ragdolling fodder to lifting objects. Along with his considerable growth between seasons 2 and 3, as well as his further growth by the Rebels finale after all of the trials he went through in seasons 3 and 4, I believe that Ezra is firmly superior to Ahsoka in raw power, matching each of her Force feats and even surpassing several of her TK feats by the end of Rebels.
Section 3: Ezra’s lack of formal training
I’ve heard this being chucked around a lot, and you yourself rely heavily upon this throughout your post. However, I personally don’t believe this is a hindrance for Ezra. In fact, I actually believe that this has helped him as a combatant, allowing him to think outside the box rather than from a more Jedi mindset. While I know that this is true of Ahsoka as well, I’ve actually been just as impressed by Ezra’s ingenuity as Ahsoka’s, if not more so.
Examples of Ezra’s lack of training benefitting him:
Creating a blaster-lightsaber which helps to compensate for the lightsaber’s lack of range:
Upon his surprise discovery of a kyber crystal in Lothal's secret Jedi Temple, Ezra Bridger built his own lightsaber. Using gear and materials gifted him by his friends, Ezra's lightsaber has a more utilitarian appearance than a typical Jedi weapon. It also has a hidden feature: Ezra built in a firing mechanism, allowing his lightsaber to shoot stun blasts.
- Starwars.com/Ezra-s-lightsaber
Making use of animals to gain an edge over far stronger or more skilled opponents:
Using the Force to dominate an AT-DP pilot, make him kill his fellow troops, then commit suicide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsOSArjDWuU&feature=emb_title
Communicating with Purgils to defeat Thrawn and his entire armada:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3ineJFrOJs
Bear in mind that this is Grand Admiral Thrawn who Ezra just outmaneuvered in tactical warfare by relying on his street smarts and unconventional methods, which in itself stands as a huge testament to his ingenuity. Honestly, I’ve never seen Ahsoka come up with anything even remotely reaching this scale of ingenuity by herself. The only thing that comes close is when she broke the blockade around Ryloth, and this was not only largely Anakin’s achievement, but also a case of dealing with forces in disarray.
I also believe that the formal training Ahsoka has received is overstated as a factor here. While obviously she is a far more rounded Jedi, Ezra was raised on the streets, learning how to survive from the moment he was born. Unlike Ahsoka, Ezra didn’t have the simple yet comfortable life of a Jedi, and has developed street smarts and ingenuity that can only be obtained by someone who’s spent their lives scrounging to survive. Much like Anakin, Ezra’s training, power growth and skill have all been centred around the concept of warfare, rather than the traditional Jedi training which involves both the pursuit of knowledge and peace as well as defence.
Summary
While obviously he lacks the formal training of Ahsoka, like her he’s been in tough situations against very skilled and dangerous opponents before and managed to either triumph or at the very least survive, and has actually thrived without the training of the Jedi that would have constrained his abilities. I believe that his combination of proficient lightsaber skill, comparable if not superior Force feats and ingenuity will give him the edge he needs to actually overcome Ahsoka.
Characters: 9,179.
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 11th 2019, 8:59 pm
@King Joker @The Apprentice @Underachiever599 @HellfireUnit @Rohirrim @IdrisianGraecus @DC77 (Reborn) @AlexSerp @Xolthol Sorry if the formatting is kriff. Kind of getting this done as quickly as I could over the last few hours so I can take a break and focus on summatives, lol.
Rohirrim
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 12th 2019, 6:41 am
Great opener.
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 12th 2019, 3:18 pm
@Rohirrim Thanks.
- xoltholLevel Five
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 13th 2019, 11:32 am
This fight will be interresting. Good post
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
December 31st 2019, 7:51 am
@King Joker Hey, just wondering if you've had a chance to read my response?
- King JokerLevel One
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
January 12th 2020, 2:28 am
@BoD: Yes, I have! I apologize for taking so long, hopefully I’ll get a response up within a month.
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
January 12th 2020, 12:36 pm
No worries, looking forward to your response.
Master AzrongerModerator
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
January 28th 2020, 6:44 am
@King Joker Did you forget about this?
_________________
TheNuisanceBird
Re: SS - Ahsoka Tano (King Joker) vs. Ezra Bridger (BreakofDawn)
March 26th 2020, 10:26 pm
I was thinking about this match up earlier today when having a snack with my parrot (No I wasn't eating him). BoD basically covered everything I would say.
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