Suspect Insight Forums

Go down
Quorian Debatist
Quorian Debatist

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 26th 2019, 9:02 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Ossus Ood was portrayed far above Kun. Kun got destroyed a couple days (at most) later. It makes no sense that he grew above Ood, so the more likely answer is that he was above base Ood. If you're arguing he grew for no reason above Ossus!Ood then you'd be conceding that Sedriss forced Ood to kill himself - an Ood that made Kun run away days before his death.

Sedriss ~ Ood > days pre-prime Kun ?

He threw up a barrier that Kun couldn't cross and he forced Kun to run away after a force blast. Ood also states he can draw on power unimaginable to Kun, then overpowers him and causes him to run away. Then states he defeated him. It seems clear what the intention is here.
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen73
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen74
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 53937410



If you factor in short amps that barely anyone in universe knew of, then it's just as likely that any quotes that happen post Kun's demise were talking about his amp just as much as it were talking about Ood's amp. His amp where he gets fried by a nova where everyone thinks he died shortly after. But why would anyone be talking about Kun's short amp? Just like why would anyone be talking about Ood's short amp when every quote about that battle shows he had the upper hand, if not defeated Kun?

But yes, an UNARMED Sedriss could have beaten Luke because a quote said "might have" while we ignore Sedriss getting nearly one-shotted by Luke's tk and forced to take a hostage so he could escape. While we ignore the context behind said statement in the first place as well. It's stating that without all the interference - that annihilated his entire Force - that he "might have beaten Kam and Luke. IE him and an entire Force of Dark Troopers "might have" won.

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen76
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen75
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen77


Not that an UNARMED Sedriss by himself could beat Kam and Luke when the book confirmed that Sedriss was below Vader on the same page lmao.
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen78


Not to mention all the hype about DE Luke is that he hovers around Sidious level. Why would we ever assume that UNARMED Sedriss was on Luke's level if we assume Luke has any parity to Sheev... from a book that repeatedly calls Sheev almost limitless, seemingly invulnerable, at his peak, etc? It makes absolutely no sense at all and only seeks to lessen any sort of build off from Spirit!Kun when you assume Luke and help can be defeated by Sedriss; a sub Vader level being that can get casually blasted back from Luke and disarmed. There's no reconciliation to be had with any of these readings of the quote. The fact that this argument has been used many times is beyond my understanding

Vader > Sedriss > Kam and Luke > Palpatine

Like why?
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 26th 2019, 9:07 pm
@Caffeine

1.  =! Means not equal to.

2.You don't get it, my entire argument is that spirit Kun is > Kyp and Kyp himself is > Luke. Those comparisons in the Horn and Suncrusher feats demonstrate a vast disparity between Kyp and Kun. Which is the point, Kun is > Kyp. They're just add-ons to Luke's confirmation.

3.Blurbs are canon, they just suffer from subjective POVs on the behalf of the publisher. I would know as I was the one who tweeted Leland Chee and got the quote out of him on the matter.

4.I know full well how the fight went. But the quote in question makes it clear that Sedriss might have beaten him in different circumstances. The only point here is that it's a possibility, clearly meaning Sedriss is within Luke's post code at this point. Not as powerful but close enough to provide him a decent challenge. Which is all that is necessary for my chain to be correct.

No one disputes it was a suicidal attack, Ood was literally holding Sedriss. The point is that he destroyed Sedriss with his power and knocked back Luke at the same time.

5.Kun was toying with him, Ood admits he's no fighter. He doesn't stand a chance. We know he doesn't because Kun shrugged off the most powerful attack of Odan-Urr after telekinetically overpowering Urr's own telekinetic grip on a holocron and after that, one-shotting him. Odan-Urr being the most powerful Jedi of the era. The gap is very large.

The attack was suicidal because he and Sedriss were both in the path of the energy blast. Ood was keeping him in place to destroy him. He didn't 'resort' to anything.

6.Ossus wasn't nearly as powerful in DE as it was in TOTJ prior to the supernovas. The planet's power was essentially exhausted by the supernova waves. Which we know because the damage the planet suffered was mitigated from complete planetary destruction to merely scorching the surface. So no, Ood wasn't getting more powerful for 4,000 years if that's what you're pushing. We know he's straight up comatose until he's woken up in DE.

Amped Ood is not > Kun, Kun gets right back up afterwards; because he certainly wasn't expecting it, but isn't strong enough to breach his supernova tanking-shield and leaves Ood to die.

7.Exar Kun in his prime on Yavin IV, after studying the priceless trove of knowledge he stole from the Chamber of Antiquities in the Great Library of Ossus, is confirmed to be far more powerful than any other Jedi of the time. Which includes Ood Bnar.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 26th 2019, 9:22 pm
@Quorian Debatist wrote:Ossus Ood was portrayed far above Kun. Kun got destroyed a couple days (at most) later. It makes no sense that he grew above Ood, so the more likely answer is that he was above base Ood. If you're arguing he grew for no reason above Ossus!Ood then you'd be conceding that Sedriss forced Ood to kill himself - an Ood that made Kun run away days before his death.

Sedriss ~ Ood > days pre-prime Kun ?

He threw up a barrier that Kun couldn't cross and he forced Kun to run away after a force blast. Ood also states he can draw on power unimaginable to Kun, then overpowers him and causes him to run away. Then states he defeated him. It seems clear what the intention is here.
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen73
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen74
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 53937410



If you factor in short amps that barely anyone in universe knew of, then it's just as likely that any quotes that happen post Kun's demise were talking about his amp just as much as it were talking about Ood's amp. His amp where he gets fried by a nova where everyone thinks he died shortly after. But why would anyone be talking about Kun's short amp? Just like why would anyone be talking about Ood's short amp when every quote about that battle shows he had the upper hand, if not defeated Kun?

But yes, an UNARMED Sedriss could have beaten Luke because a quote said "might have" while we ignore Sedriss getting nearly one-shotted by Luke's tk and forced to take a hostage so he could escape. While we ignore the context behind said statement in the first place as well. It's stating that without all the interference - that annihilated his entire Force - that he "might have beaten Kam and Luke. IE him and an entire Force of Dark Troopers "might have" won.

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen76
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen75
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen77


Not that an UNARMED Sedriss by himself could beat Kam and Luke when the book confirmed that Sedriss was below Vader on the same page lmao.
Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Screen78


Not to mention all the hype about DE Luke is that he hovers around Sidious level. Why would we ever assume that UNARMED Sedriss was on Luke's level if we assume Luke has any parity to Sheev... from a book that repeatedly calls Sheev almost limitless, seemingly invulnerable, at his peak, etc? It makes absolutely no sense at all and only seeks to lessen any sort of build off from Spirit!Kun when you assume Luke and help can be defeated by Sedriss; a sub Vader level being that can get casually blasted back from Luke and disarmed. There's no reconciliation to be had with any of these readings of the quote. The fact that this argument has been used many times is beyond my understanding

Vader > Sedriss > Kam and Luke > Palpatine

Like why?

1.Ossus Ood cheap-shotted Kun who got right back up afterwards. By no meams was Kun forced to run away by Ood, he knows a supernova is about to fry the planet and doesn't want to be around when it does. Lmao.

Kun is confirmed to be far more powerful than any other Jedi of the time in his prime, Ood included:


Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:She discovers the accounts of the Great Sith War, and learns that though Kun was far more powerful than any one other Jedi of the time, a combined force had defeated him.


2.Sedriss forced nothing, Ood trapped him and killed him, destroying himself in the process.

3.What's all this talk about amps? Kun doesn't need an amp, he grows far more powerful over the shit he stole from one of the greatest troves of ancient Sith knowledge in the entire mythos from a library that is compared to the library in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. Go figure.

4.That quote you use to mock Sedriss also means that Sedriss is > Jerec, given that Jerec is confirmed to be nearly as powerful as Vader. I don't see what's so funny.

5.Luke gets repeatedly ragdolled by Sheev and only defeats him by having his potential gradually unlocked by Leia and the fetus of Anakin Solo melding with him. He's absolutely not DE Sheev tier, lol.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 26th 2019, 9:32 pm
5.Luke gets repeatedly ragdolled by Sheev and only defeats him by having his potential gradually unlocked by Leia and the fetus of Anakin Solo melding with him. He's absolutely not DE Sheev tier, lol.

@LadyKulvax Wow, we actually agree on something. I'm genuinely surprised.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 26th 2019, 9:33 pm
Indeed. TUF Luke might be, no earlier than that.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 26th 2019, 9:36 pm
Seconded. It seems fairly clear that DE Luke was << DE Sidious. I'm a bit surprised people still support it, if I'm honest.
caffeineandshiny
caffeineandshiny

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 27th 2019, 1:39 am
1.  =! Means not equal to.
Okay, thanks for the clarification.

2.You don't get it, my entire argument is that spirit Kun is > Kyp and Kyp himself is > Luke. Those comparisons in the Horn and Suncrusher feats demonstrate a vast disparity between Kyp and Kun. Which is the point, Kun is > Kyp. They're just add-ons to Luke's confirmation.
I get perfectly well what you are saying.

And you still have not addressed the fact that Kyp is NOT greater than Luke, so it doesn't matter if Kun is greater than Kyp.

The fact is that if Kun+Kyp is still only stated to MAYBE be stronger than DE Luke, then individually neither of them possibly can. This isn't even a case of two opponents fighting 1 at the same time. This is literally the combination of Kun's and Kyp's powers into one being.

Similar to Vitiate lending the Outlander his powers, but on an even more complete scale.

3.Blurbs are canon, they just suffer from subjective POVs on the behalf of the publisher. I would know as I was the one who tweeted Leland Chee and got the quote out of him on the matter.
Things cannot be subjective to a POV while still being objectively canon. They are done to create interest in the book, not to give a definitive picture.

Furthermore, this does nothing to address the fact that it is contradicted by the English blurb, which by your own argument would be canon (and since the book was written in English, it would be of higher canon than the German one).

So, if blurbs are canon, Luke is stronger than Exar. It is specifically stated that they may only become stronger than Luke while working together.

"A brilliant student delves  dangerously into the dark side of the Force and  unleashes the spirit of an ancient master of the evil  order that warped Darth Vader himself. Working  together, they may become an enemy greater than the  New Republic has ever fought... more powerful than  even a Jedi Master can face".
4.I know full well how the fight went. But the quote in question makes it clear that Sedriss might have beaten him in different circumstances. The only point here is that it's a possibility, clearly meaning Sedriss is within Luke's post code at this point. Not as powerful but close enough to provide him a decent challenge. Which is all that is necessary for my chain to be correct.

No one disputes it was a suicidal attack, Ood was literally holding Sedriss. The point is that he destroyed Sedriss with his power and knocked back Luke at the same time.

Actually it is NOT all that is necessary for your chain to be correct. Even IF what you are saying is taken at face value, all it does is show Sedriss might have been a threat to Luke, while Luke was weakened. It doesn't show at all how he would compare to base DE Luke.

It is also quite clearly not referring to Sedriss alone, as pointed out by Quorian.

And you basically have to ignore how the fight went to even claim that Sedriss was a threat to Luke. Luke all but stomped Sedriss, instantly overcoming him despite having just gone through a "fierce struggle" against "nearly impossible odds".

Luke was also saving Jem at the same time as the explosion went off. And she wasn't burned or anything. The audio drama even specifically states that Luke used the Force to protect her as well as himself.
5.Kun was toying with him, Ood admits he's no fighter. He doesn't stand a chance. We know he doesn't because Kun shrugged off the most powerful attack of Odan-Urr after telekinetically overpowering Urr's own telekinetic grip on a holocron and after that, one-shotting him. Odan-Urr being the most powerful Jedi of the era. The gap is very large.

The attack was suicidal because he and Sedriss were both in the path of the energy blast. Ood was keeping him in place to destroy him. He didn't 'resort' to anything.
That was quite clearly not Ood's most powerful attack, given the fact that he was still alive afterwards and able to tank a radiation wave from a supernova immediate after. Also nothing I have seen indicates Exar was toying with Ood. Quite the opposite, it is usually praise for Ood for being able to stall Exar as long as he did. Unless you had a quote that clearly shows differently?

It wasn't like the Sidious vs Maul fight, where Sidious periodically dominated Maul and Savage only to clearly allow them to continue fighting. THAT is a "huge gap".

Yes, Ood disliked sabers. That doesn't mean that he wasn't doing well. Sidious disliked sabers too, that doesn't lessen his skill.

Odan-Urr's defeat is largely attributed to his old age. He was far from his prime, and was less of a fighter than Ood was. He even states "I am old" when Exar retaliates.

Also, Odan was one of the greatest masters of the time. ONE of doesn't mean THE, and greatest doesn't always mean most powerful. It can just as easily refer to one's skill, which he would undeniably fit the bill for.

And despite everything Ood was still in good enough shape to do his transformation. That doesn't really show any sort of "huge" superiority from Kun.

And Ood's own fatalistic view of his power compared the Kun's doesn't negate how the fight actually went down, or the fact he was actually able to fight Kun and didn't use his nature transformation until after he was disarmed by the Massassi.

And yes, Ood did resort to it. Unless you are saying that he deliberately used a suicidal blast in spite of having an alternative way to defeat Sedriss?

6.Ossus wasn't nearly as powerful in DE as it was in TOTJ prior to the supernovas. The planet's power was essentially exhausted by the supernova waves. Which we know because the damage the planet suffered was mitigated from complete planetary destruction to merely scorching the surface. So no, Ood wasn't getting more powerful for 4,000 years if that's what you're pushing. We know he's straight up comatose until he's woken up in DE.

He was hibernating. That is different from being comatose, and it was caused by him tanking a shockwave from a supernova. And once again, that blast he used against Exar Kun was done instantly. He barely touched the planet's power. Vs 4000 years of being submerged in it. So even if the planet was weaker (which given that it appears he was reaching into the planet core for energy rather than the surface, which was what was ravaged by the supernova, isn't 100% true) he still demonstrated stronger abilities against Sedriss.

And where are you getting the idea that Ossus should have been destroyed by the supernova? Nothing protected it, the damage from the supernova did exactly as much as it was going to do. And all it did was affect the flora and fauna, which was coming back by the time of DE. It didn't affect the core energy.

"When Sedriss called down electricity from the atmosphere, Ood drew up power from Ossus' core"- New Essential guide to characters.

And, I was mostly mentioning it because Ood's connection to the planet was stronger and more stable than it would have been in the moment that he formed it. Not that he was necessarily actively accumulating energy.

Ood instantly went for a suicidal attack against Sedriss, instead of opting for the same defense that he used against Kun (which you yourself say Kun could not overcome). The fact that he chose to do that, if anything, indicates that amped (not base) Sedriss was MORE of a threat to him than Kun.

This is reinforced by the New Essential Guide to Characters, which states that "[t]he two combatants annihilated each other", referring to Ood and Sedriss. This interpretation clearly gives Sedriss (while amped) a direct hand in Ood's demise, something which Exar was unable to replicate.
Amped Ood is not > Kun, Kun gets right back up afterwards; because he certainly wasn't expecting it, but isn't strong enough to breach his supernova tanking-shield and leaves Ood to die.

So Kun getting blown back by Ood doesn't show that Ood is greater than Kun, but Luke being blown back (while rescuing someone and having just gone through a major battle) shows that Ood is greater than weakened Luke? How does that work? And on top of that, how does it show Luke in a not weakened state would fair the same?

This is also in spite the fact that Ood was partially using a defensive move on Kun, not offensive like he used when Luke was blown back. And it is despite the fact that a quote you brought up directly states that Kun was "driven back" by Ood.

Even ignoring all that, you can't at all demonstrate that Kun was superior to amped Ood. There is simply no ground to stand on there. There is evidence pointing towards amped Ood being stronger than Kun, but nothing at all to indicate Kun could defeat amped Ood.

So, given that Kun, at the VERY least, is NOT stronger than amped Ood, that gives him no direct scaling over amped Sedriss either. On top of which, even under the loosest of interpretations, Sedriss has no scaling over even a weakened Luke (even you seem to indicate you don't believe Sedriss is greater than, or even equal to, a weakened Luke).

7.Exar Kun in his prime on Yavin IV, after studying the priceless trove of knowledge he stole from the Chamber of Antiquities in the Great Library of Ossus, is confirmed to be far more powerful than any other Jedi of the time. Which includes Ood Bnar.
Yes. I've already agreed that Kun> Ood Bnar. That doesn't equate to Kun being stronger than Ood after Ood got his planetary amp. Especially given the fact Exar didn't just blitz Ood before that, even while Ood was in base state.
caffeineandshiny
caffeineandshiny

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 27th 2019, 1:29 pm
@LadyKulvax

Regardless (this is the part where I try to get back on topic), given the fact that Revan either greatly scales or comfortably scales over Exar (depending on whether or not we take the Malak quote into account) I would say that if your opinion becomes the consensus then DE Luke is stopped at around KOTOR Revan to Foundry, and if mine is then DE Luke is stopped somewhere around Revan Reborn to SoR.
Deronn_Solo
Deronn_Solo

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 27th 2019, 2:31 pm
Dafaq does Exar Kun even have to do with this thread?

caffeineandshiny
caffeineandshiny

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 27th 2019, 3:07 pm
@Deronn_Solo wrote:Dafaq does Exar Kun even have to do with this thread?

He is a character that Luke and Revan can both be compared to via accolades and scaling (even if that scaling swings wildly all over the place depending on who you ask).
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

on November 27th 2019, 7:03 pm
@caffeineandshiny wrote:
1.  =! Means not equal to.
Okay, thanks for the clarification.

2.You don't get it, my entire argument is that spirit Kun is > Kyp and Kyp himself is > Luke. Those comparisons in the Horn and Suncrusher feats demonstrate a vast disparity between Kyp and Kun. Which is the point, Kun is > Kyp. They're just add-ons to Luke's confirmation.
I get perfectly well what you are saying.

And you still have not addressed the fact that Kyp is NOT greater than Luke, so it doesn't matter if Kun is greater than Kyp.

The fact is that if Kun+Kyp is still only stated to MAYBE be stronger than DE Luke, then individually neither of them possibly can. This isn't even a case of two opponents fighting 1 at the same time. This is literally the combination of Kun's and Kyp's powers into one being.

Similar to Vitiate lending the Outlander his powers, but on an even more complete scale.

3.Blurbs are canon, they just suffer from subjective POVs on the behalf of the publisher. I would know as I was the one who tweeted Leland Chee and got the quote out of him on the matter.
Things cannot be subjective to a POV while still being objectively canon.

Furthermore, this does nothing to address the fact that it is contradicted by the English blurb, which by your own argument would be canon (and since the book was written in English, it would be of higher canon than the German one).

So, if blurbs are canon, Luke is stronger than Exar. Full stop, no need for scaling.

4.I know full well how the fight went. But the quote in question makes it clear that Sedriss might have beaten him in different circumstances. The only point here is that it's a possibility, clearly meaning Sedriss is within Luke's post code at this point. Not as powerful but close enough to provide him a decent challenge. Which is all that is necessary for my chain to be correct.

No one disputes it was a suicidal attack, Ood was literally holding Sedriss. The point is that he destroyed Sedriss with his power and knocked back Luke at the same time.

Actually it is NOT all that is necessary for your chain to be correct. Even IF what you are saying is taken at face value, all it does is show Sedriss might have been a threat to Luke, while Luke was weakened. It doesn't show at all how he would compare to base DE Luke.

It is also quite clearly not referring to Sedriss alone, as pointed out by Quorian.

And you basically have to ignore how the fight went to even claim that Sedriss was a threat to Luke. Luke all but stomped Sedriss, instantly overcoming him despite having just gone through a "fierce struggle" against "nearly impossible odds".

Luke was also saving Jem at the same time as the explosion went off. And she wasn't burned or anything.
5.Kun was toying with him, Ood admits he's no fighter. He doesn't stand a chance. We know he doesn't because Kun shrugged off the most powerful attack of Odan-Urr after telekinetically overpowering Urr's own telekinetic grip on a holocron and after that, one-shotting him. Odan-Urr being the most powerful Jedi of the era. The gap is very large.

The attack was suicidal because he and Sedriss were both in the path of the energy blast. Ood was keeping him in place to destroy him. He didn't 'resort' to anything.
That was quite clearly not Ood's most powerful attack, given the fact that he was still alive afterwards and able to tank a radiation wave from a supernova immediate after. Also nothing I have seen indicates Exar was toying with Ood. Quite the opposite, it is usually praise for Ood for being able to stall Exar as long as he did. Unless you had a quote that clearly shows differently?

It wasn't like the Sidious vs Maul fight, where Sidious periodically dominated Maul and Savage only to clearly allow them to continue fighting. THAT is a "huge gap".

Yes, Ood disliked sabers. That doesn't mean that he wasn't doing well. Sidious disliked sabers too, that doesn't lessen his skill.

Odan-Urr's defeat is largely attributed to his old age. He was far from his prime, and was less of a fighter than Ood was. He even states "I am old" when Exar retaliates.

Also, Odan was one of the greatest masters of the time. ONE of doesn't mean THE, and greatest doesn't always mean most powerful. It can just as easily refer to one's skill, which he would undeniably fit the bill for.

And despite everything Ood was still in good enough shape to do his transformation. That doesn't really show any sort of "huge" superiority from Kun.

And Ood's own fatalistic view of his power compared the Kun's doesn't negate how the fight actually went down, or the fact he was actually able to fight Kun and didn't use his nature transformation until after he was disarmed by the Massassi.

And yes, Ood did resort to it. Unless you are saying that he deliberately used a suicidal blast in spite of having an alternative way to defeat Sedriss?

6.Ossus wasn't nearly as powerful in DE as it was in TOTJ prior to the supernovas. The planet's power was essentially exhausted by the supernova waves. Which we know because the damage the planet suffered was mitigated from complete planetary destruction to merely scorching the surface. So no, Ood wasn't getting more powerful for 4,000 years if that's what you're pushing. We know he's straight up comatose until he's woken up in DE.

He was hibernating. That is different from being comatose, and it was caused by him tanking a shockwave from a supernova. And once again, that blast he used against Exar Kun was done instantly. He barely touched the planet's power. Vs 4000 years of being submerged in it. So even if the planet was weaker (which given that it appears he was reaching into the planet core for energy rather than the surface, which was what was ravaged by the supernova, isn't 100% true) he still demonstrated stronger abilities against Sedriss.

And where are you getting the idea that Ossus should have been destroyed by the supernova? Nothing protected it, the damage from the supernova did exactly as much as it was going to do. And all it did was affect the flora and fauna, which was coming back by the time of DE. It didn't affect the core energy.

"When Sedriss called down electricity from the atmosphere, Ood drew up power from Ossus' core"- New Essential guide to characters.

And, I was mostly mentioning it because Ood's connection to the planet was stronger and more stable than it would have been in the moment that he formed it. Not that he was necessarily actively accumulating energy.

Ood instantly went for a suicidal attack against Sedriss, instead of opting for the same defense that he used against Kun (which you yourself say Kun could not overcome). The fact that he chose to do that, if anything, indicates that amped (not base) Sedriss was MORE of a threat to him than Kun.

Amped Ood is not > Kun, Kun gets right back up afterwards; because he certainly wasn't expecting it, but isn't strong enough to breach his supernova tanking-shield and leaves Ood to die.

So Kun getting blown back by Ood doesn't show that Ood is greater than Kun, but Luke being blown back (while rescuing someone and having just gone through a major battle) shows that Ood is greater than weakened Luke? How does that work? And on top of that, how does it show Luke in a not weakened state would fair the same?

This is also in spite the fact that Ood was partially using a defensive move on Kun, not offensive like he used when Luke was blown back. And it is despite the fact that a quote you brought up directly states that Kun was "overcome" by Ood.

Even ignoring all that, you can't at all demonstrate that Kun was superior to amped Ood. There is simply no ground to stand on there. There is evidence pointing towards amped Ood being stronger than Kun, but nothing at all to indicate Kun could defeat amped Ood.

So, given that Kun, at the VERY least, is NOT stronger than amped Ood, that gives him no direct scaling over amped Sedriss either. On top of which, even under the loosest of interpretations, Sedriss has no scaling over even a weakened Luke (even you seem to indicate you don't believe Sedriss is greater than, or even equal to, a weakened Luke).

7.Exar Kun in his prime on Yavin IV, after studying the priceless trove of knowledge he stole from the Chamber of Antiquities in the Great Library of Ossus, is confirmed to be far more powerful than any other Jedi of the time. Which includes Ood Bnar.
Yes. I've already agreed that Kun> Ood Bnar. That doesn't equate to Kun being stronger than Ood after Ood got his planetary amp. Especially given the fact Exar didn't just blitz Ood before that, even while Ood was in base state.

1.You're acting as if there is a contradiction:


Dark Apprentice Blurb wrote:Working together, they may become an enemy greater than the New Republic has ever fought... more powerful than even a Jedi Master can face.

This isn't saying they might become more powerful than Luke working together. They're saying Luke wouldn't even be able to face them. My quote clarifies that Kyp becomes individually > Luke. There is no contradiction here. They are both valid.

2.The argument here is null, the Handbook states very clearly that under different circumstances Sedriss might have been the victor in a clash.

The fact he got telekinetically attacked doesn't indicate he is overly inferior. Yoda Force pushed Sheev in ROTS, does that mean Sheev always gets ragdolled? No, not at all. The Handbook isn't contradicted by the actual fight, in fact the entire point of the quote is that in a different engagement without any distractions he might have won.

3.No, it might not have been Ood's most powerful attack. But I'm not talking about Ood, I'm talking about his base level superior in Odan-Urr. Odan-Urr is the most powerful Jedi of the era, per Power of the Jedi but Kun killed him and the second most powerful Jedi in Vodo. Both of whom were demonstratably and canonically far inferior to Kun. Ood would be even more distant given his canonical inferiority to both Odan and Vodo.

Odan-Urr still had more than enough power to telepathically talk to ten thousand Jedi at once in TOTJ and had more than enough power to attack Kun with Sever Force, his most powerful technique. It didn't work and he got one-shotted in return.

Putting it all down to old age is both wrong and disingenous.

Ood Bnar literally not getting one-shotted by Kun doesn't meam he put up a fight. Kun is smiling at him the whole time. Because he is enjoying it.

Ood Bnar absolutely does not compare to Kun in any way.

4.Ood didn't resort to anything. He chose to sacrifice himself to rescue Jem. Which he did by physically restraining Sedriss so as to destroy him with a blast drawn out of Ossus. He was building the attack up, thus needed to be certain Sedriss was there.

Please provide me a single source stating that Ood Bnar would be better off, when by all means he should be weaker. Given Ossus tanked as much damage as it could before its surface was scorched:


The Unlikely Survival of Ossus wrote:Ossus still bears the scars of the Cron Supernova: its surface is a seared wasteland of rock and sand. But even this degree of desolation is shockingly mild; that the planet was not rendered into a charred ball of molten rock, or even obliterated completely, is nothing short of miraculous.

Little academic work has been put forward to explain this unlikely survival; only conjecture. The initial cause of the supernova was unnatural; perhaps this explains the unnatural results? Ossus was a stronghold of the Jedi; does the inherent life force of such a place make it more resistant to destruction?

5.Ood's entire point was to save Jem from Sedriss, he can't destroy Sedriss or let Jem go with a defensive shield as he did against Kun.

He didn't opt to shield himself from Kun, he opted to shield himself against ten supernova waves.

6.I never meant to infer Ood > Luke, my apologies. But no, a Kun who had no reason to expect Ood to tap into a ten-time supernova-tanking power source getting caught off-guard isn't the same as a prepared Kun with a shield of his own.

7.Kun is literally canonically confirmed to be far more powerful than 'amped' Ood Bnar, as you put it. He's far more powerful than any Jedi of the time. Due to having taken one of the greatest troves of ancient Sith knowledge the mythos ever saw, immediately after fighting Ood. Kun grew far more powerful due to studying more knowledge 'than he could ever need'.
Sponsored content

Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet - Page 2 Empty Re: Luke Skywalker runs the Revan gauntlet

Back to top
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum