AotC Kenobi vs ANH Kenobi

Standard morals, standard equipment, no amps, no BFRs, no cheapshots, victory is dictated by pure fighting prowess. Fight takes place in Florrum.

Who wins

ANH version wins

Probably Ben

AotC Kenobi. The younger counterpart can outlast him.

Any version of Kenobi starting from TPM - RotS can beat Ben. As that period is his prime and heyday as a Jedi. Old Ben is past it. Experience only goes so far when the body can’t cooperate. Spiritual Force enlightenment ≠ more combative power or overcome the negative effects of aging, unless you want to argue ESB Yoda is more formidable than PT Yoda.

going with ben on this one .
after all the things he has been through and all his experience he should take this .
AoTC kenobi is not particularly masterful in any lightsaber form and he should be slightly inferior as a force user as well .

O-Siri wrote:AotC Kenobi. The younger counterpart can outlast him.

Did a younger Kenobi outlast Dooku? Not sure why age is relevant here.

SithSauce wrote:

O-Siri wrote:AotC Kenobi. The younger counterpart can outlast him.

Did a younger Kenobi outlast Dooku? Not sure why age is relevant here.

Dooku is much more powerful than ANH Kenobi, he's been active and stayed in practice, and he is unique in his ability to replenish his reserves in a lull in the action. And ANH Kenobi, unlike Dooku doesn't have the means to seriously pressure his younger counterpart unless the latter does something reckless, and I just don't see him doing that, AotC Kenobi is much more patient and measured than his TPM counterpart. It's a long fight but it's the younger guy's advantage all the way through.

all I'm saying is age is completely irrelevant

It is my friend. It is. “I getting too old for this sort of thing.” PT is Kenobi’s prime through and through.

But I see no reason why Ben shouldn't be more powerful, also add all the experience  he has at that point.

Experience is overrated. 39 year old Ali is “more experienced” than 22 year old Ali. Which version do you think is going to win in a fight? Bobby Fischer was no where near as amazing a chess player in 1990 comeback than in 1970 despite being “more experienced”.

O-Siri wrote:

SithSauce wrote:

O-Siri wrote:AotC Kenobi. The younger counterpart can outlast him.

Did a younger Kenobi outlast Dooku? Not sure why age is relevant here.

Dooku is much more powerful than ANH Kenobi, he's been active and stayed in practice, and he is unique in his ability to replenish his reserves in a lull in the action. And ANH Kenobi, unlike Dooku doesn't have the means to seriously pressure his younger counterpart unless the latter does something reckless, and I just don't see him doing that, AotC Kenobi is much more patient and measured than his TPM counterpart. It's a long fight but it's the younger guy's advantage all the way through.

I'm not comparing Ben Kenobi to Dooku, all I'm saying is age is completely irrelevant. Why shouldn't Ben Kenobi be more powerful than his AOTC incarnation? Inferior duelist?
Sure. But I see no reason why Ben shouldn't be more powerful, also add all the experience  he has at that point.

ANH is much more powerful but AOTC is more skilled and has comparable physicals. He wins.

Ben wins. Neither of the combatants' saber form is based on aggression, so sabers and physicals isn't much of a factor here. On the other hand Ben has decades of training with Force post Mustafar. His younger self doesn't stand a chance who is below Kit Fisto.

How many examples are there of a Force user in their 50's losing so much power that they become like several tiers weaker than they were in their 30's? Even if Ben had declined from RotS - and it's possible that he merely declined from his peak on Mustafar rather than IH, he couldn't have possibly gone down what is essentially a oneshot gap.

Ben doesn't decline in force power, only overall so he probs just TK stomps right off the bat. Combatively he's declined but is still equal to Vader who's considerably better than AOTC Kenobi so he stomps there as well. AOTC Kenobi doesn't have a hope in hell.

ANH Kenobi wins.

Ben's an example of a Force user who hasn't aged well. Tatooine's harsh deserts are known to cause premature aging; not just him but Owen and Beru as well. He’s also sustained a lot of injuries during the CW which would shorten his prime as is the case in real life. Physically he's much older than he really is, even older than Qui-Gon. All he has left is strong defense, his offense is weak. And it's not just that's he's old, he's been inactive as well, unlike the other old folks of the PT. He held his own against Vader but Vader was still wittingly him away, like a man chopping down a tree.

Even if Ben had declined from RotS - and it's possible that he merely declined from his peak on Mustafar rather than IH

IH Kenobi >= Mustafar Kenobi. The latter was emotionally exhausted and mentally hindered in his reluctance to kill his apprentice.

TPM -RotS Kenobi > Ben.

25 - 40 is the average prime span for a Force user physically and mentally.

Fact File says that Vader’s claim that Ben’s power is the Force has weakened was legitimately correct, retconning what ANH junior novel said, so that it can be deduced that Ben is less powerful than his RotS counterpart.

Fact Files are In Universe though.

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Fact Files are In Universe though.

So it doesn't matter.

Also, can I get the quote anyway please, as I'm curious as to the exact wording.

Ben isn’t winning

I forgot that Fact Files was in universe, but here's the quote anyway:

Vader could feel that the old man's powers were weak but Kenobi claimed that Vader could not win. wrote:Source - The Official Star Wars Fact File 3

Image: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b5sy47I5--E/XXo3zisE_yI/AAAAAAAA77g/CwsUy0HnWbgDFas4qU7dPf1xtzPt_8DxwCK8BGAsYHg/s0/003%2B011%2BCharacters%2B-%2B0ABY%2BVAD5.jpg

old ben is weaker than his RoTS self no doubt . but this is AoTC kenobi we are talking about .
he hasn´t mastered soresu yet and his other forms are kinda iffy as well , he is also a bit less powerful force user compared to RoTS kenobi .

ben has the experience and although he is a bit rusty he is still a master of soresu .
AoTC kenobi lacks the strenght to generate momentum and to really press ben in this duel so fatigue will not be an issue .

AOTC Kenobi wins

ANH Kenobi could seriously stomp if he was inclined to do so tbh

To be honest, Ben's close parity with Vader already puts his raw power way above AOTC Kenobi's. He could honestly dominate by just using the Force.

Not really sure how legit this scaling is since there is no timeframe given on this version of Vader (and maybe Asajj as well), but...

ANH Ben = Vader >>> Ventress >>> Fisto > AotC Kenobi

*shrugs*

IIRC, the reason why Ventress was able to beat Fisto was because she spent a lot of time studying Fisto’s fighting style before she fought him, so she basically had the benefit of prep time, whereas Fisto didn’t have prep time.