How much effect would Count Dooku’s Lightning have on Darth Vader

NotAA3 wrote:Vader would be overwhelmed.

Can you really say Dooku "stomped" AotC Anakin when the effort basically exhausted him?

Not sure if it's really such a great showing seeing how Hett beat an enraged Anakin with far less difficulty.

Lol at even a vastly pre-prime Vader being stalemated by Ben. Just wow. That is high quality bait.

NotAA3 wrote:@HellfireUnit

That's fine. I can basically summarise my general points here for you to respond to.

Vader:

-Stalemate by a post-prime Kenobi.

-Given trouble by ESB Luke.

Dooku:

-Put up a solid performance against AOTC Yoda while tired from his previous fights.

-Ragdolled ROTS Kenobi.

-Basically stomped a rage-amped AOTC Anakin who should definitely be > ESB Luke.

CaptainMarTuuk wrote:Vader died because of the wave of Dark Side Energy Palpatine released on his death.

Star Wars Databank: Darth Vader wrote:Vader was bombarded by the Emperor's Force lightning, mortally wounding him.

Star Wars The Ultimate Visual Guide wrote:Torrents of lightning ravage Vader's body, but his sacrifice saves his son. With this, Vader is freed of the dark side and dies as Anakin Skywalker, his body disappearing into the Force

The Essential Reader's Companion wrote:Mortally wounded by Sith lightning, the Chosen One hurls Darth Sidious down an elevator shaft and the Emperor explodes in a violent release of dark energy.

NotAA3 wrote:@HellfireUnit

That's fine. I can basically summarise my general points here for you to respond to.

Vader:

-Stalemate by a post-prime Kenobi.

-Given trouble by ESB Luke.

Dooku:

-Put up a solid performance against AOTC Yoda while tired from his previous fights.

-Ragdolled ROTS Kenobi.

-Basically stomped a rage-amped AOTC Anakin who should definitely be > ESB Luke.

DarthAnt66 wrote:

CaptainMarTuuk wrote:Vader died because of the wave of Dark Side Energy Palpatine released on his death.

CaptainMarTuuk: Worth noting more sources emphasize the Force lightning killed him rather than the wave of dark side side energy:

Star Wars Databank: Darth Vader wrote:Vader was bombarded by the Emperor's Force lightning, mortally wounding him.

Star Wars The Ultimate Visual Guide wrote:Torrents of lightning ravage Vader's body, but his sacrifice saves his son. With this, Vader is freed of the dark side and dies as Anakin Skywalker, his body disappearing into the Force

The Essential Reader's Companion wrote:Mortally wounded by Sith lightning, the Chosen One hurls Darth Sidious down an elevator shaft and the Emperor explodes in a violent release of dark energy.

There's (way) more than this, but I had these on-file from other debates. 

And most of the ones describing the wave of energy are in-universe, written by non-Force sensitive New Republic historians (e.g. The New Essential Chronology).

CaptainMarTuuk wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:

CaptainMarTuuk wrote:Vader died because of the wave of Dark Side Energy Palpatine released on his death.

CaptainMarTuuk: Worth noting more sources emphasize the Force lightning killed him rather than the wave of dark side side energy:

Star Wars Databank: Darth Vader wrote:Vader was bombarded by the Emperor's Force lightning, mortally wounding him.

Star Wars The Ultimate Visual Guide wrote:Torrents of lightning ravage Vader's body, but his sacrifice saves his son. With this, Vader is freed of the dark side and dies as Anakin Skywalker, his body disappearing into the Force

The Essential Reader's Companion wrote:Mortally wounded by Sith lightning, the Chosen One hurls Darth Sidious down an elevator shaft and the Emperor explodes in a violent release of dark energy.

There's (way) more than this, but I had these on-file from other debates. 

And most of the ones describing the wave of energy are in-universe, written by non-Force sensitive New Republic historians (e.g. The New Essential Chronology).

Only 2 of those say you it was lightning. There's also many sources that say that it was the energy, and some that are out of universe as well. There's also the fact that Vader tanked blasts of equal power before with no trouble. There's a comic of Vader shortly after he got his suit getting hit with a full blast of Lightning from Palp (made his skeleton show through his suit like in RoTJ) and then get back up right after, completely fine.

Only 2 of those say you it was lightning. There's also many sources that say that it was the energy, and some that are out of universe as well. 

 There's also the fact that Vader tanked blasts of equal power before with no trouble. There's a comic of Vader shortly after he got his suit getting hit with a full blast of Lightning from Palp (made his skeleton show through his suit like in RoTJ) and then get back up right after, completely fine.

SithSauce wrote:

CaptainMarTuuk wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:

CaptainMarTuuk wrote:Vader died because of the wave of Dark Side Energy Palpatine released on his death.

CaptainMarTuuk: Worth noting more sources emphasize the Force lightning killed him rather than the wave of dark side side energy:

Star Wars Databank: Darth Vader wrote:Vader was bombarded by the Emperor's Force lightning, mortally wounding him.

Star Wars The Ultimate Visual Guide wrote:Torrents of lightning ravage Vader's body, but his sacrifice saves his son. With this, Vader is freed of the dark side and dies as Anakin Skywalker, his body disappearing into the Force

The Essential Reader's Companion wrote:Mortally wounded by Sith lightning, the Chosen One hurls Darth Sidious down an elevator shaft and the Emperor explodes in a violent release of dark energy.

There's (way) more than this, but I had these on-file from other debates. 

And most of the ones describing the wave of energy are in-universe, written by non-Force sensitive New Republic historians (e.g. The New Essential Chronology).

Only 2 of those say you it was lightning. There's also many sources that say that it was the energy, and some that are out of universe as well. There's also the fact that Vader tanked blasts of equal power before with no trouble. There's a comic of Vader shortly after he got his suit getting hit with a full blast of Lightning from Palp (made his skeleton show through his suit like in RoTJ) and then get back up right after, completely fine.

I think the comic you are referring to is from the new canon. Most people here debate legends only

DarthAnt66 wrote:

Only 2 of those say you it was lightning. There's also many sources that say that it was the energy, and some that are out of universe as well. 

CaptainMarTuuk: Which one are you disputing? And feel free to compile those. We can check whether Force lightning or wave of dark side has more sources supporting it, though I'm rather confident it will be the Force lightning (which is also the more intuitively obvious answer just watching the film).

 There's also the fact that Vader tanked blasts of equal power before with no trouble. There's a comic of Vader shortly after he got his suit getting hit with a full blast of Lightning from Palp (made his skeleton show through his suit like in RoTJ) and then get back up right after, completely fine.

Note the rules are generally Legends-only unless specified otherwise. Canon Vader and Legends Vader are radically different in power in comparison to Palpatine, so it's effectively impossible to amass a "composite" version. However, if we are assessing Canon Vader, sure, it seems he can somewhat tank Palpatine's lightning

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The second one essentially just says he got hit by Lightning and that's basically it. The only notable difference in Vaders is speed, with Legends being ridiculously faster. Canon Vader has army busted, survived without his suit, tanked lightning, etc. which is all in line with Legends.

DarthAnt66 wrote:

The second one essentially just says he got hit by Lightning and that's basically it. The only notable difference in Vaders is speed, with Legends being ridiculously faster. Canon Vader has army busted, survived without his suit, tanked lightning, etc. which is all in line with Legends.

CaptainMarTuuk: The second one indicates taking in the "torrents of lightning" is a "sacrifice," suggesting he's being mortally wounded. 

As for Vader in Canon and Legends --

Dozens of sources (e.g. official script, adult novel, comic, RAFODV, countless sourcebooks, etc.) state Luke and Vader were equally powerful and skilled in ROTJ, and that Vader was neither holding back nor weakened (which isn't overwritten by Luke's musings in COPL). Sources also highlight that Luke was "so overwhelmed" and "powerless" against a fraction of Palpatine's power (as shown by his tutaminis being nigh-instantly ripped through and Lucas saying Palpatine could one-shot Luke). And Vader was actually hilariously amplified by the light side and his love for Luke when he quasi-tanked Palpatine's lightning (screenshots below). Lucas described him as having "super energy," and Insider states Vader could have never came close to replicating this normally. Further, in the adult novel, Vader actually "focused his every fiber of being on this one, concentrated act" across "minutes" before doing it. If not for these amps and the suit's insulation and heat systems, Vader would have collapsed as fast as Luke did. 




But none of this is necessarily true for Disney Canon. I don't think any sources highlight Vader being way beyond his A-game here and whatnot.

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