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AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Empty The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar

December 8th 2021, 5:22 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
THE EXILES

-Xoxaan

Xoxaan's spirit was the Master of Darth Krayt, even as Darth Krayt created the One Sith:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Images29

This is likely to be Darth Krayt's prime state as he begins to physically decline and lose his power over time after this point:

Marvel, Darkhorse and StarWars.com websites wrote:In a reckless bid to right one of his many past wrongs, Cade Skywalker has become a prisoner of the Sith. It's a banner day for Emperor Darth Krayt, who hopes that Skywalker's abilities will complete Krayt's longtime quest to restore his own power.

It's this Darth Krayt who is stated to restore the Sith to the strength they once had with Emperor Palpatine:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen99

-Karness Muur

Karness Muur is more powerful than Talisman-empowered Darth Vader, who is in turn more powerful than 18BBY Emperor Palpatine:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Images28

This superiority evidently extends to Palpatine as of 0ABY, with a visible battle where Karness Muur and a talisman-empowered 0ABY Luke Skywalker slaughter a force made up of Emperor Palpatine, Celeste Morne, Darth Vader, Leia Organa and an army of soldiers:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Qkzlts10

-Darth Andeddu

Andeddu, much like the others, had developed Alchemy and extended his life, using Muur's own experiments as a template:

Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil wrote:Andeddu, the account claimed, had lived for centuries, using the dark side of the Force to extend his life and maintain his body well beyond its natural span.

In the typical fashion of the Sith before Bane's reformations, Andeddu's reign came to a violent end when he was betrayed and overthrown by his own followers. Yet his Holocron, the repository of his greatest secrets-including the secret of near-eternal life-was never found.

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Adielk11

Andeddu uses collective terms repeatedly, just like Ajunta Pall, Remulus Dreypa, Xoxaan and Sorzus Syn(previous scan) do:
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Ygv3o310

Ajunta Pall, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"Our temple... our tomb. Built far from our enemies. We revered power and threw off the teachings of our old masters. It... we were not the first to fall to the dark side. But we... had more power than those before us. It... came from elsewhere..."

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Images27
Andeddu also has his name and history wiped from knowledge, just like the other Exiles:


Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil wrote:"In my research, I happened on several references to a man named Darth Andeddu. The Jedi had worked hard to remove all mention of him from the galactic record, but as a member of the Order I had access to the original confiscated materials."

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Adielk10
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Srgkhv10
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Cnsjag10

Andeddu also acknowledges Ajunta Pall's statement that they wanted each other's secrets:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Geta5810

Ajunta Pall, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"We... hid from the Jedi, but it was not they who destroyed us. Is it not... obvious what we did? We destroyed each other. We desired the secrets of each other, to increase our power... we battled until finally our fortress rained down on top of us."

Darth Andeddu, despite being arguably the weakest of the Exiles, is evidently far beyond the likes of Quinlan Vos, Asajj Ventress or Sora Bulq in the estimation of Darth Tyranus:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Images30

-Ajunta Pall

Ajunta Pall, first Dark Lord of the Sith, is the original Exile and is even more than that:

Ajunta Pall, Knights of the OId Republic wrote:"I... had a name, once. Ajunta Pall. Yes, that was my name. I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side... Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid... hid from those we had betrayed. We fell... and I knew it would be so..."

"Our temple... our tomb. Built far from our enemies. We revered power and threw off the teachings of our old masters. It... we were not the first to fall to the dark side. But we... had more power than those before us. It... came from elsewhere..."

"Our oldest secret. Only... only we would know, we lords. Only we would know where our power came from..."

"I... see your heart, human Jedi. I see your power, your pride. You... you will find the old place, the dark place... and you will regret it."

"So much power... it is blinding. I...I remember so little..."

"I... I do not remember. A map? Perhaps it is a map. But it has not been buried with me. All I have now is my sword."

This dialogue has been interpreted as indicating that the source of their power was the Star Map, there's more than one problem with this:

1.The Star Map isn't actually covered over in the way we assume until the Tomb of Naga Sadow is prepared, two thousand years after Ajunta Pall arrived. Coincidentally, the Star Map is almost exactly on the spot where Tulak Hord places Khem Val in stasis for 'safekeeping' to guard his 'powerbase', an unlikely coincidence:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar 4b274b10

Khem Val Codex Entry wrote:Once a loyal servant of the Sith Lord Tulak Hord, Khem Val was placed in a stasis chamber in the tomb of Naga Sadow centuries ago by his master for safekeeping.

2.Ajunta Pall states that their power came from elsewhere, not from where they built their temple in hiding from their enemies; the Jedi, which is on Korriban.

3.Ajunta Pall's tomb contains Star Forge droids that appear 'defunct' and only activate when the tomb's first trap; an ancient design with an even more ancient source of explosive, is finally breached for the first time by Revan:

Sith Archaeologist Veren Gal, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"Strangely enough, I've found traces of Therangen in the tomb. This is an unstable black rock used as fuel by lesser races... perhaps the ancient Sith on Korriban used it as a power source? It is a volatile and dangerous substance, and reacts violently to fire. I will have to be careful."

Sith student, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"There has got to be a way to get past this obelisk blocking the bridge! It seems to be made of some kind of unstable material... I'm willing to bet some kind of energy discharge will set it off. Blaster fire isn't doing the trick, however. I'll have to try some kind of explosive. I just hope that guard droid over there is as defunct as it looks."

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Kotor_10
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Del3zx10

They kept the map secret as it leads to their actual source of power, the Star Forge. Drew Karpyshyn has stated that the Star Forge is actually what Ajunta Pall is referring to:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar 20211111
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar 20211110

They use the Star Forge, presumably in the crusade war and to build their empire up, which explains how they even had military strength enough to fight the Republic again so soon after utter defeat at Corbos. So much that they suffer almost what the Rakata suffered long before them, the draining of their power and mental manipulation:

Ajunta Pall, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"We... hid from the Jedi, but it was not they who destroyed us. Is it not... obvious what we did? We destroyed each other. We desired the secrets of each other, to increase our power... we battled until finally our fortress rained down on top of us."

"And so here our old secret is buried and none of us hold it anymore... is that not right? Our power fled."

Ancient Rakata Computer, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"In your terminology, the Star Forge is a tool of the dark side. It corrupts those who use it so that it can generate greater and greater amounts of negative energy to fuel itself. The Builders thought they were strong enough to control this effect, but they were wrong. They became victims of their own creation, and eventually their hatred turned them against each other. Civil war destroyed the Infinite Empire - a lesson to remember. Only one who is immensely strong in mind can harness the power of the Star Forge without suffering a similar fate."

Rakata Codex Entry wrote:However, the Rakata’s rapid expansion came to an abrupt end when a strange plague swept through the species. Millions died, and most of those who survived lost their connection to the Force.

Under Darth Malak, the Sith's own estimation of its production capacity was surpassed by 300%, due to the continuous feeding of Force energy into it. The Star Forge had yet to reach its aforementioned pinnacle, which as Bastila Shan states, Darth Revan knew would doom them all and possibly the Force itself, hence avoiding its use:

Commander, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:Lord Malak, the preparations are nearly complete. Everyday the Star Forge adds more ships to our fleet. It is operating at nearly 300% of our projections.

Bastila Shan, Knights of the Old Republic II:The Sith Lords wrote:"There is no one left with the power to control the Forge, though many have tried. I have watched them be devoured, their life drained from them as they attempt to tap into its power. Knowing what we do of the Builders and their fate, I'm convinced that Revan did not intend us to keep the Star Forge - to use it would mean the end of the Sith... the end of the Force."

-Tulak Hord

This Dark Lord is stated to have been at Balmorra, a battle which took place in the Hundred-Year Darkness, confirming Hord was an Exile:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Image013
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Image014
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Image015
(Credit to SI's own Darth Plagueis the Wise for the above scans)
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen24

We know that Ajunta Pall died to his own blade:

Ajunta Pall, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"My sword... I filled it with my pride. And it is... buried with me, now. A corpse as I am a corpse. I am dead, as my faith... is dead. And I shall remain here... surrounded by blackness in death as in life..."
"Of course you do. You... seek my power. Will it destroy you... as it did me?"
"If... if you are wise, you will not keep it. In the end, it is what destroyed me..."

Tulak Hord was the next Dark Lord of the Sith after Ajunta Pall, how does one usually take the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith? By killing the reigning Dark Lord? Perhaps with his own weapon? He did kill a great many of his contemporaries, after all:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"This was the tomb of Tulak Hord, known as the greatest lightsaber duelist of the Sith Lords. His skill was considered remarkable even in his time, when many true lightsaber masters lived."

Tulak Hord Codex Entry wrote:Of the many who challenged his might, none were successful.

That Hord would surpass Ajunta Pall and any other Exiles available to challenge him, before his infamous consumption of thousands of Jedi at Yn and Chabosh, puts Tulak Hord at an extremely high peak among other Sith:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Image016

And given that Val's testimony affirms Hord conquered the Dromund system after this, this only breathes further life into his greatest rival, Aloysius Kallig, who evidently has claims of power to the likes of Revan, concurrently jailed in the Maelstrom Prison:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Img_5510

The Jedi Exiles debuted as a collective in Empire’s End where Dark Emperor Palpatine acknowledges those buried and sealed within the Great Temple, which peaks the Valley of the Dark Lords, as having been made outcasts for the alchemy they practiced, which per Heritage of the Sith, Legacy, Knights of the Old Republic and Book of Sith: Secrets From the Dark Side, is exactly why the Jedi Exiles were outcast from the Jedi Order:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Images25

The Great Temple and the Exiles are seen a second time when Freedon Nadd leads Exar Kun to it in Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Images26

The Exiles make their first full appearance in Tales of the Jedi: Golden Age of the Sith:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar G3zx3l10
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar D8jv9l10

These spirits of the Sith are led by Marka Ragnos, who is also reigning Dark Lord of the Sith by the time Ragnos imparts the mantle on Exar Kun:

Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:Exar Kun and Ulic fought, but they were too evenly matched for either to gain the upper hand. Their battle might have gone on for hours but for the macabre manifestation of a host of Sith spirits, led by the shade of Marka Ragnos.
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen22
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen23

These Sith are the same ones who Emperor Palpatine is 'cowed' and 'almost killed' by:

Star Wars Gamer 5 (2001) wrote:Shortly after the Battle of Yavin, Droga rescued his cowed master after Palpatine had enraged the mummified Sith by demanding dark side knowledge. Palpatine recovered from the assault in a bacta tank on Imperial Center while Droga retrieved one of the Emperor’s clones.

Indeed, Sidious acknowledges Marka Ragnos's continued spiritual existence directly in response to Plagueis's claim of hallucinating, and directly cites this incident as proof:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar 2017-114

In fact, the Dark Emperor even states that had been the last time he'd been to Korriban, chronologically:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Images31

THE TRUE SITH

Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords introduces the 'true' Sith, who are in-fact far more powerful than Darth Nihilus and are even plausibly more powerful than the ancient Sith Lords:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen93
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen94
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen95
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar P31010
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar P21010

Q: "When Kreia speaks of Tulak Hord and his prowess with the Lightsaber, she mentions how ancient Sith Lords would make more modern wielders of the force look like children playing with toys. How does she know this? Is she merely speculating off of information she read? Did she come across his and other Sith holocrons? Was she just making things up? Or, given the sort of clairvoyance she showed at the end of the game, did she possibly glean this information by some kind of psychometry? If the latter most choice is viable, would you have any opinion on how Kreia would compare herself to Hord in terms of raw force power too?"

Avellone: "Kreia is setting the stage for what we imagined KOTOR3 to be, and as we had a sense for the power that we wanted those Sith Lords to reveal, her predictions are accurate. And yes, she had a number of Sith holocrons that she had read (the ones on Telos)."

Revan leaving for the Unknown Regions to fight these Sith and the Exile following him 'to do battle at the end of all things', where attachments mean 'doom', shows the true Sith are clearly an incredible threat to Revan after Knights of the Old Republic:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen25
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen27
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen26

Whilst these 'true' Sith are later conflated with Star Wars the Old Republic's Sith Empire and their Emperor, these Sith are acknowledged beforehand in other in-universe sources such as Jedi Academy Training Manual:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen96

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, an in-universe omniscient source, confers the mantle of most powerful Sith Lord (of and up to his time) upon Exar Kun who exists concurrently to them:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Exarku10

STAR WARS THE OLD REPUBLIC

This quote from Star Wars the Old Republic: Encyclopedia must refer to Tenebrae, Tulak Hord, Ajunta Pall, Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma given it acts as a caption to the greater image beneath it:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen21

The source in question is in-universe:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Swtore10

NOTE: Given that in-universe knowledge self-regulates, then all the above facts about the Sith Academy must be taken into account when using other such in-universe knowledge such as that quote.

The Sith Academy is founded by disciples of Exar Kun per in-universe sources:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen89
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen90

Kreia refers to the Academy as ‘old’, indicating that the Academy isn’t recent and supporting the fact that Exar Kun’s disciples built it:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"There is much that would draw a Jedi to this place. The resting grounds of the ancient... and more recently departed Sith... contain many teachings believed lost. The most likely place to find our lost Jedi is the ruins of the old Academy."

Chronicles of the Old Republic also makes it clear that the Academy predates the Mandalorian Wars:

Soon, the evil force infecting the planet became the FORGE for Darth Revan's shock troops; the feared SITH ASSASSINS - fallen Jedi, tempted and cajoled by the evil of Malachor V, and under Revan's evil command. Soon, a shadow academy to the one on Korriban is constructed; and an evil enclave mirroring the Jedi academy on Dantooine is complete.

Jorak Uln, an original Acolyte of Exar Kun, was Headmaster of the Sith Academy when Darth Revan arrived per Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen87
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Scree100
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Scree101

In-universe Knights of the Old Republic and Rise of the Empire sources also make it clear that the Academy is in fact the Monastery, which is the Great Temple seen in Tales of the Jedi and Dark Empire resides:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen97

Korriban, Knights of the Old Republic website, LucasArts.com wrote:The unwary traveller arriving at the tiny spaceport of Dreshdae will only find a barren, forgotten backwater community of temporary settlements and crudely constructed shelters. Perhaps as the competent local mechanic services your ship, you might begin to sense that there is something else here, something festering. Soon you may start to hear things such as harsh voices slowly drifting through the thick air. Your heart will begin to beat faster, and your skin will begin to itch under your collar with the urge to climb back into your ship and leave this soulless place behind forever. Korriban is a graveyard of Sith Lords and a former power base of the Sith order. This is the cradle of darkness.

The spaceport is under the roof of the Czerka Corporation stronghold, the very center of power for the giant corporation run by President Pollard Seario. The city itself owes its existence to the power created by Czerka's generators. Perhaps Pollard seeks solace from his uncountable holdings in the vast emptiness of this world; perhaps he dreams of shadowy promises that ooze from the tombs of long dead Sith Lords.

Within Dreshdae is the Sith monastery -- still teeming with those who would wish to join the Sith order. Its ominous halls resonate with the cries of anguish from those who are undeserving of the order's dark power. Their stay within its merciless walls is short, brutal and forgotten.

For the very few who survive the Sith training and wish to complete their final rite of passage into the cold embrace of the Sith, they must face the Valley of the Dark Lords. Hundreds of ancient Sith sorcerers wait within the mausoleums. They lie in their dusty beds waiting to devour the weak and unworthy. The Valley seethes with the foul energy of a thousand restless spirits murmuring of sinister glories.

Jedi Quest: Final Showdown wrote:They were deep in the monastery now. Even though it was in ruins, Obi-Wan could see how different it was from the Jedi Temple. Although the Sith monastery had the same goals - study and training - it was clear that this had been a place ruled by fear. The Temple had grand rooms, but it also had quiet spaces, light-filled classrooms, gardens. The Jedi believed that beauty was a part of the Force, and encouraged it. The sound of water, the play of light, the grace of a curving stairway - the Temple had been planned as a place of comfort as well as rigor. The lines of this place were harsh. The walls were high, but narrowed slightly as they rose, in order to create a sense of being trapped. Angles were slightly off in a way that Obi-Wan realized was deliberate. The monastery was designed to intimidate, to keep beings off-balance. There were no openings to air or light. There was only cold gray stone, massive columns, hard floors. Amid the weeping stones, Obi-Wan could still feel the fear that had ruled there, the many beings who had come to learn evil, the ones who had come naively, hoping for some kind of enlightenment, and had been trapped by their own desires.

The Sith Academy per SWTOR is re-established:

Korriban, Holonet, swtor.com wrote:The earliest Sith lived on the red, dusty planet of Korriban, determined to grow strong despite the inhospitable climate. Their success culminated in a bold civilization, made stronger when dark Force-users arrived and interbred after being driven out of the early Jedi Order. This ancient Sith civilization eventually became a superpower and challenged the Republic during the Great Hyperspace war. Their defeat drove a handful of survivors into deep space where they regrouped and rebuilt, determined to return.

Over time, the new Sith Empire lost its way back to Korriban, until a visit a few centuries ago by two Jedi returning from the Mandalorian wars. Turned to the dark side, the two Jedi, Revan and Malak, attempted to reclaim the Sith’s legacy in the known galaxy, but turned on each other and self-destructed.

The true Sith Empire, governed by a thousand-year-old Dark Emperor, wisely waited, and returned to the known galaxy only when completely prepared to defeat the Jedi and the Republic.

Retaking the holy planet of Korriban as a top priority, the Sith re-established the glorious Sith Academy and began training a new generation of Sith to inherit their dark legacy and seize their birthright as the true rulers of the galaxy.

The quote however clashes with Lord Aloysius Kallig, who as we know surpasses Ajunta Pall entirely and appears to even rival Revan as Vitiate's most powerful enemy. Thus, the quote can't be strictly binding, but it provides insight into the power levels at play in Star Wars the Old Republic and should be an indicator for how open it is to making grand claims for the ancient Sith.

SHADOW OF REVAN

Vitiate Codex Entry wrote:The man now called Vitiate by those who once served him was not strong enough to usurp all life on Yavin 4 after his reawakening. However, he did gain power enough to flee the jungle moon and survive. Now that he has found in Ziost a suitable target to replenish himself--now that he appears to grow more powerful by the hour--what now? When will his unforgiving depletion of Ziost end? And when it does end, what fate will befall the rest of the galaxy?

Vitiate as of his release on Yavin IV wasn't yet powerful enough to 'usurp all life', and had to manufacture further recovery on Ziost before he could do so himself.

Revan the Resurrected is not capable of a full Ziost event per Boyd, but is capable of a 'proto-Ziost' event that would not have wiped out all life on Yavin IV entirely, but 'would have been bad':

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Image017

Vaylin however, is fully capable of such an act according to Tenebrae:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Unknow21

According to Star Wars the Old Republic sources:

The wall of light used by the Jedi Order to stop Exar Kun, decimated Yavin IV, leaving nothing left in terms of life:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen28
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen29

Exar Kun himself performed his own act of devastation, a ritual that wiped out numerous 'armies' and 'countless' Massassi, to keep his spirit alive, meaning the Jedi couldn't 'defeat him entirely' with his newfound power:

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen30
The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Screen31

This indicates that in the narrative of Star Wars the Old Republic:

1.The combined Jedi Order of the time was capable of a Ziost tier usurpation of Yavin IV with it's Wall of Light.

2.Exar Kun with the power of the ritual was essentially unbeatable, even against such power.

3.Exar Kun in performing such a ritual was capable of a massive scale of decimation roughly on par with the level of Revan the Resurrected, but certainly not near Vaylin.

IN CONCLUSION:

- The Jedi Exiles are monstrously powerful Sith almost across the board.
- The likes of Marka Ragnos are still right up with the aforementioned.
- Exar Kun is not to be held to the standard shown in 2002 or 2006, when he has immensely more impressive direct comparisons in later, more up-to-date source material.
Nute_Chethray
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The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Empty Re: The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar

December 8th 2021, 5:53 am
Great post The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar 1289255181
lorenzo.r.2nd
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The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Empty Re: The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar

December 9th 2021, 6:52 am
POD Bane > Exiles The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar 1019854026
FreedonNadd
FreedonNadd

The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar Empty Re: The Ancient Sith; from Exiles to Exar

November 27th 2022, 9:21 am
Well constructed post.

This certainly puts the modern era Sith to shame.

Though I would recommend we need to stop applying Chris' statements on the True Sith to Vitiate? Clearly the True Sith were supposed to be some eldritch abominations with Nihilus serving as a taste of what these hypothetical True Sith were capable of.
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