Suspect Insight Forums
Suspect Insight Forums
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Go down
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 1:19 am
Was Maul able to legitimately compete? Was Sidious toying? Etc...
O-Siri
O-Siri

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 1:34 am
He toyed with Savage when Maul was knocked out and held back his Force powers but I think he was using his full skill in the majority of the lightsaber duel though he wasn't particularly pressured except when it got physically tiring; hence him using the Force to knock out Maul. A raged amped Maul gave Sidious a good fight. His demeanor went from playful and mocking as with the duo to deadly serious and he was clearly heavily strained in the last blade-lock so I don't see how anyone can argue Sidious was "toying" except for after he had Maul at his mercy.


Last edited by Kilius on July 13th 2019, 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level One
Level One

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 1:41 am
Sidious' "superiority never wavered" and he was "barely tested".

Even if he was going all out, both Maul and Savage failed to challenge him in any way.
Jake
Jake
Level One
Level One

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 5:53 am
Obviously no brother can touch Sidious, but their performances were good, all things considered.
Jake
Jake
Level One
Level One

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 6:14 am
Kilius wrote:A raged amped Maul gave Sidious a good fight. His demeanor went from playful and mocking as with the duo to deadly serious and he was clearly heavily strained in the last blade-lock so I don't see how anyone can argue Sidious was "toying" accept after he had Maul at his mercy.

Flawless argumentation kilius. Nothing says ‘brilliant mind’ like coming to conclusions based on facial expressions as opposed to approved-canon statements.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 6:22 am
I think Sidious ramping up his speed so much at the end indicates he never went all-out. The brothers gave an outstanding performance, though, as even that holding-back Sidious was exerting more effort than he had ever had when sparring with Maul previously, even when he blitzed Maul circa TPM.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 6:49 am
Still not convinced Sidious was going all out for the whole fight. Regardless the brothers put up a solid performance though it is clear Sidious is significantly superior.
avatar
LOTL

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 8:25 am
Azronger wrote:I think Sidious ramping up his speed so much at the end indicates he never went all-out. The brothers gave an outstanding performance, though, as even that holding-back Sidious was exerting more effort than he had ever had when sparring with Maul previously, even when he blitzed Maul circa TPM.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 8:34 am
@Jake wrote:Obviously no brother can touch Sidious, but their performances were good, all things considered.
O-Siri
O-Siri

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 9:21 am
@Jake wrote:
Kilius wrote:A raged amped Maul gave Sidious a good fight. His demeanor went from playful and mocking as with the duo to deadly serious and he was clearly heavily strained in the last blade-lock so I don't see how anyone can argue Sidious was "toying" except for after he had Maul at his mercy.

Flawless argumentation kilius. Nothing says ‘brilliant mind’ like coming to conclusions based on facial expressions as opposed to approved-canon statements.

Elaborate. Any reason to dismiss Sidious's change of demeanor and obvious strain of exertion in the final blade-lock? Because if your only counterargument is this quote:

"Upon arrival, Sidious declared the Sith brothers to be his rivals. In an intense duel, he killed Savage and toyed with Maul, ultimately deciding not to kill his former apprentice."

Then you really don't have much of a leg to stand on.

Toying:

intr.v. toyed, toy·ing, toys
1. To amuse oneself idly; trifle: a cat toying with a mouse.
2. To treat something casually or without seriousness: toyed with the idea of writing a play. Source: Free Dictionary.com

Sidious "amused himself idly" with Maul AFTER the duel when he was at his mercy. He didn't "treat the duel casually or without seriousness" like he clearly did with Savage.

If we go by "canon-approved statements" and ignore the context he only killed Savage after "an intense duel"; no mention of Sidious toying with Savage like it was specifically attributed to Maul. Guess Savage > Rage-Amped Maul.


Last edited by Kilius on July 13th 2019, 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Jake
Jake
Level One
Level One

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 9:34 am
Please tell me this is a joke
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 9:48 am
Kilius is off his meds today. Watch out folks.
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level One
Level One

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 9:49 am
I really hoped I’d never have to witness Erkan level logic on SI
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 10:03 am
Erkan's plague has spread. We must take cover from his Holy Greatness lest we be killed by his all powerful cancer. It has already infected our dear Kilius, a once shitty debater turned into an even shittier debater. If we do not run we will die, it is that simple.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 10:19 am
Let's keep it civil, guys.
O-Siri
O-Siri

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 10:41 am
In all seriousness does anyone have a simple counter to my points? Because the evidence for Sidious toying with Maul in the final stand is about as threadbare as Mace being circumstantially amped against Sidious.
O-Siri
O-Siri

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 11:15 am
Azronger wrote:I think Sidious ramping up his speed so much at the end indicates he never went all-out. The brothers gave an outstanding performance, though, as even that holding-back Sidious was exerting more effort than he had ever had when sparring with Maul previously, even when he blitzed Maul circa TPM.

SC makes the duo fight look much closer than the actual episode tbh. It's specifically noted Sidious zeroed on the tiniest slip-up in Maul and Savage's defense when he Force pushed the former. Whereas in the episode itself its apparent Sidious could dismiss either with the Force whenever it was convenient.

Also, SC's depiction of Maul's final stand has one key difference in that Maul doesn't appear to be rage-amped in the novel; just desperate. And as a result, he's beaten in a more one-sided fight.

Basically, if we accept feats from both versions in debates we can say Sidious can beat base Maul in a short one-sided fight, but Rage-Amped Maul can give Sidious pause and make him work for it.
O-Siri
O-Siri

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 1:00 pm
Sorry for the triple post but I have one more relevant observation in regards to rage-amped Maul giving Sidious a good fight. When Sirak's lackey Llokay saw his sister die in front of his eyes he was empowered with rage and grief, just as Maul would logically be from seeing Savage's death, and actually managed to push Bane back in a staggering retreat:

Path of Destruction wrote:Bane barely had time to register her death before Llokay was on him. The red-skinned Zabrak was overmatched, but his grief and rage empowered him, and he drove his much larger opponent back with a brutal series of desperate slashes and strikes. Staggering back, Bane was almost too distracted to see Sirak unleashing a bolt of crackling blue lightning at him.

Now Sirak is indisputably above Llokay and even he wasn't able to pressure even a holding back Bane, let alone a Bane fighting for his life as he was in that situation. Bane would logically crush Llokay in any normal situation, even harder than Sidious would base Maul, yet he was able to perform a feat way beyond even Sirak.

What I'm saying is that a Rage-Amped Maul giving Sidious a good fight and forcing him to take him seriously with these circumstances even if he wasn't particularly challenged by him and Savage earlier makes perfect sense and should even be expected.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Three
Level Three

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 3:36 pm
No further, horselord
avatar
LOTL

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 4:37 pm
Kilius wrote:In all seriousness does anyone have a simple counter to my points? Because the evidence for Sidious toying with Maul in the final stand is about as threadbare as Mace being circumstantially amped against Sidious.

Not really tbh
O-Siri
O-Siri

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 4:54 pm
@LOTL wrote:
Kilius wrote:In all seriousness does anyone have a simple counter to my points? Because the evidence for Sidious toying with Maul in the final stand is about as threadbare as Mace being circumstantially amped against Sidious.

Not really tbh

Then back it up.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 5:14 pm
Kilius wrote:
Azronger wrote:I think Sidious ramping up his speed so much at the end indicates he never went all-out. The brothers gave an outstanding performance, though, as even that holding-back Sidious was exerting more effort than he had ever had when sparring with Maul previously, even when he blitzed Maul circa TPM.

SC makes the duo fight look much closer than the actual episode tbh. It's specifically noted Sidious zeroed on the tiniest slip-up in Maul and Savage's defense when he Force pushed the former. Whereas in the episode itself its apparent Sidious could dismiss either with the Force whenever it was convenient.

Also, SC's depiction of Maul's final stand has one key difference in that Maul doesn't appear to be rage-amped in the novel; just desperate. And as a result, he's beaten in a more one-sided fight.

Basically, if we accept feats from both versions in debates we can say Sidious can beat base Maul in a short one-sided fight, but Rage-Amped Maul can give Sidious pause and make him work for it.

Right, he doesn't "appear" to be rage-amped; doesn't mean he actually isn't. The novel doesn't contradict the episode in that regard. Omission is not a contradiction. Sidious nigh-blitzed a rage-amped Maul when he increased his speed, yet as you note, earlier a much weaker Maul gave a much closer fight to Sidious. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Sidious was holding back there.
MacialRecognition
MacialRecognition
VIP Member
VIP Member

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

on July 13th 2019, 10:06 pm
Kilius wrote:In all seriousness does anyone have a simple counter to my points? Because the evidence for Sidious toying with Maul in the final stand is about as threadbare as Mace being circumstantially amped against Sidious.
So, it's not threadbare at all?
Sponsored content

Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight? Empty Re: Thoughts on Sidious vs Maul and Savage fight?

Back to top
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum