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Bergmar
Bergmar

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on July 24th 2020, 9:23 am
All-out
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on July 24th 2020, 9:42 am
Nadd, solidly
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on July 24th 2020, 10:58 am
Do Nadd against all sith preceeding him imo Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos 1076326320
Jedi_Jesus
Jedi_Jesus

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on July 24th 2020, 12:39 pm
Marka
The Merchant
The Merchant

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on July 25th 2020, 12:03 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Ragnos. The comic itself before things got retconned placed Nadd as a Dark Jedi who never became Dark Lord. It's never said why he became Dark Lord, although I'd believe in one of the reasons proposed being he just didn't have time to wait and wanted to conquer already. 

But, Nadd was taking orders from Ragnos and being a Dark Lord>Dark Jedi status in the comic. Yeah, a lot of this info was retconned but in other works Ragnos is still held in high esteem such as the dark side sourcebook putting him on the same tier as Sidious.
Caelus Pall
Caelus Pall

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on July 25th 2020, 1:35 pm
Freedon Nadd. He was stated to be "far more powerful" than Naga Sadow.
RhoyneDelta
RhoyneDelta

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on August 7th 2020, 3:25 am
Marka Ragnos, Nadd is well-above Sadow, but Sadow was not close to Marka Ragnos by any indication. His spirit goes around scolding Sadow/Kressh and Exar/Ulic and they duck and obey like schoolboys who got a stern order from a teacher. Marka Ragnos was top dog in a much more impressive, sprawling sith empire. For all we know Marka Ragnos is the apex of the sith race and escapes being just another link in a scaling chain. MR casually beating  a Terentatek with his bare hands is also a better strength feat than Nadd has as far as I know.
Caelus Pall
Caelus Pall

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on August 7th 2020, 2:51 pm
@RhoyneDelta The Freedon Nadd that was "far more powerful" than Naga Sadow was pre-prime. He then had 100 years of further growth and became "the greatest Sith sorcerer that had ever existed." This statement would include Marka Ragnos. As for the Terentatek feat, KotOR Revan has bettered it so I wouldn't count it as some great deed.
RhoyneDelta
RhoyneDelta

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on August 7th 2020, 3:49 pm
@Caelus Pall

He did not become "the greatest sith sorcerer that had ever existed.", the quote says "He only needed time to become the greatest Sith sorcerer that had ever existed... and then he would return to take his revenge on the jedi" not only does the TotJ companionbook describe Freedon Nadds thoughts and is not necessarily objective (his revenge conquest did not really happen unless you really stretch it either) it says that he will return against the jedi in a revenge conquest once he reached that level of power, but the jedi came to him andn took him out before he did that, so he was not that powerful by his own estimate.

Even if he was a better sorcerer MR could still be better for example by being physically superior (has the better feat and was also noted for "tremendous physical power"), a better duelist (dueled sith presumably for centuries, plus he is literally the model for sith juggernauts so his dueling prowess left  alasting impression and mark on history), more raw power or his artifacts which are impressive, like the Scepter of Ragnos, a amulet that can ragdoll Darth Nox or his gauntlets that are desribed as glowing with power. He can also channel the spirits of dead sith so even if Nadd was stronger normally he can amp his output beyond that.

Revans feat is not better than Marka Ragnos and it's not necessarily a strength feat, he defeated two terantateks in a fight, presumably with saber and force abilities. MR casually beat a terantatek into submission regularly. A heavily injured apprentice Teneb Kel made short work of  a Terantatek does not mean he could beat it. Even if Revans feat was better, nice for him, not Nadd.

A Exar that was determined to fight to the death and dusted Nadds spirit, then grew stronger, still cucked and bowed before Markas spirit and MR spirit was generally portrayed as superior as @The Merchant described.


Last edited by RhoyneDelta on August 7th 2020, 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : somehow some paragraphs did not show up, plus typos)
Caelus Pall
Caelus Pall

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on August 7th 2020, 6:46 pm
@RhoyneDelta

Even still, he was greater than Naga Sadow before his 100 years of growth.

Naga Sadow was the model for the Sith Marauder, yet he duelled evenly with Ludo Kressh. Besides that, Nadd while still a Jedi Padawan defeated the renowned Jedi Master Matta Tremayne in a lightsaber duel. He then studied under Naga Sadow, surpassing and killing him, and then conquering his own planet and ruling for more than 100 years, killing countless Jedi with his lightsaber and many more with his blaster. As a Sith spirit, he gifted King Ommin and the Keto cousins with numerous Sith amulets, one being the amulet eventually worn by Ulic Qel-Droma. Nadd can also claim corrupted spirits.

As for Marka Ragnos beating his pet Terentatek, he used the Force to do that. The full quote says "Left to guard the tomb serving as the resting place for its master, Marka Ragnos, the beast has dwelled in darkness for centuries. Legend tells that Ragnos beat his pet nightly, warping it with the Force until it was a creature of pure hate and anguish."

Regarding Exar Kun it wasn’t just Marka Ragnos that manifested in the middle of his duel with Ulic Qel-Droma, it was "a host of Sith spirits, led by the shade of Marka Ragnos." Battling one Sith spirit is very different to battling a host of them, especially when your rival is in the room and you have to watch out for him too.
RhoyneDelta
RhoyneDelta

Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

on August 8th 2020, 7:03 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Caelus Pall

Nadd having surpassed Sadow does not necessarily mean in every aspect, which is something we see all the time from the RoT sith for example. Sadow might have been a better duelist, but because of Nadds stronger power and force enhancement he might have still been soundly surpassed or in any number of ways. That he favored his blaster over his saber fits with that and I am confident that MR can react to blaster bolts. Sure Nadd has amuletts but I don't see them as as impressive as the ones MR has like the Scepter that can drain a nexus and turn armies of muggles into force wielders. The amps MR gave out to both Ulic and Exar were also superior to Aleema with all her artifacts, so those artifacts are really low-tier for MR and he has a solid advantage when it comes to artefacts.

Now that might just be me not being a native-english speaker, but I think it is possible to read that terantatek quote as him physically beating him up and then just furthering it's corruption not that he necessarily beat it with the force. Given that the word "beat" is used, that MR is noted for "tremendous physical power" and was considered to be a quintessential juggernaut I think thats more likely. But even if that was not the case and he did "beat it with the force" that he did it routinely and casually does not put that feat under Revans. Revan also still is not really relevant to the discussion.

Sure there werethree other sith spirits in the background, but MR was clearly the main heavy hitter and stronger than them, he even says to them "my power is all that concerns you" and plus Exar and Ulic are at this point both superior to the spirit of Nadd and are stubborn enough to fight to the death, but still offer no resistance and even let him grab their heads. Then MR further boosts them each with power beyond Aleema Ketos and all her shit. They both don't offer resistance, there is not even a implication of them wanting to rebell and afterwards they just grin with glee to obey Markas Ragnos their pimp. Plus he was the lord of the sith spirits, while Nadd was not. The comic just portrays MR spirit unambiguously as well above Nadds spirit. Simply Nadd << Marka Ragnos
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Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos Empty Re: Freedon Nadd vs Marka Ragnos

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