Mace Windu (TPM) vs Savage Opress

Savage Opress

VS...

Mace Windu (TPM)

Standard SI rules. Who wins and by what extent?

Hobo Windu in a goodish fight. He's physically strong enough to compete, more skilled and probably more powerful.

Savage breaks him

Only thing breaking here is Savage's self-esteem.

TPM Mace is a guy who lived in a time where the edi, especially Jedi council members, were living in complacency because they were under the delusion that they were in a time of peace and that the Sith were extinct, so I can see why this is debatable.

mace breaks him

Latham2000 wrote:TPM Mace is a guy who lived in a time where the edi, especially Jedi council members, were living in complacency because they were under the delusion that they were in a time of peace and that the Sith were extinct, so I can see why this is debatable.

Peace =/= complacency.

Tpm Mace is not ready to face Savage, savage curbs

BoD wrote:

Latham2000 wrote:TPM Mace is a guy who lived in a time where the edi, especially Jedi council members, were living in complacency because they were under the delusion that they were in a time of peace and that the Sith were extinct, so I can see why this is debatable.

Peace =/= complacency.

The Jedi were definitely complacent throughout the trilogy, especially as of TPM, though the Sith were extinct for a millennium, but then the Sith finally revealed themselves to the Jedi in the form of Darth Maul, who gets bisected, but the other Sith Lord was still alive, and naturally, the Jedi in turn would've trained and practised harder and more seriously so that they would prepare themselves for the anxiety of having to fight the surviving Sith Lord. Then the clone wars happens, making many Jedi like Mace more battle hardened because of the life threatening and heavily taxing battles and skirmishes.

If that's not convincing enough, keep in mind that TPM Mace was only slightly better than Qui-Gon Jinn, whereas RotS Mace can compete with RotS Sidious, and Qui-Gon would get absolutely fodderized by Sidious.

Even a complacent old shitty Jedi like Jinn can compete with Maul 

Curry is correct 

> Korriban wrote:Even a complacent old shitty Jedi like Jinn can compete with Maul 

Curry is correct 

I know you're trolling, but Qui-Gon wasn't complacent. He committed himself in hearing the will of the Living Force and this enabled him to become a Force Ghost, whereas most Jedi of his time, especially those on the council, were playing second fiddle with the Senate. Qui-Gon was considered unorthodox because he rebelled against the council, which is why he never got a seat. Moreover, Qui-Gon was wise enough to realize that his first encounter with Maul was direct contact with a Sith Lord, whereas Mundi and Windu scoffed at the idea that the Sith had returned.

The Jedi were definitely complacent throughout the trilogy, especially as of TPM, though the Sith were extinct for a millennium, but then the Sith finally revealed themselves to the Jedi in the form of Darth Maul, who gets bisected, but the other Sith Lord was still alive, and naturally, the Jedi in turn would've trained and practised harder and more seriously so that they would prepare themselves for the anxiety of having to fight the surviving Sith Lord. Then the clone wars happens, making many Jedi like Mace more battle hardened because of the life threatening and heavily taxing battles and skirmishes.

You misunderstand what I meant. By not being complacent, I mean they didn't just sit on their backsides and do nothing. Jedi like Mace honed their skills in spars and their Force abilities. While of course spars aren't going to make you battle hardened or as good as fights to the death or constant battles would, he'd still be incredibly dangerous. 

If that's not convincing enough, keep in mind that TPM Mace was only slightly better than Qui-Gon Jinn,

I'd be wary of taking anything from that game for granted. Aside from some inaccuracies (long live Cockney Kenobi), it had Obi-Wan defeating Mace Windu and Plo Koon in sabers, which is a bit...well. 

whereas RotS Mace can compete with RotS Sidious, and Qui-Gon would get absolutely fodderized by Sidious.

I agree, but I still think TPM Mace is still potent enough to take down Savage.

Qui-Gon’s mastery of the living force was so strong that he couldn’t appear in physical form, unlike the mighty Orgus Din

CuckedCurry wrote:Qui-Gon’s mastery of the living force was so strong that he couldn’t appear in physical form, unlike the mighty Orgus Din

Leave Orgus alone.

Lmao

Mace wins by the skin of his teeth or dies.

Savage>Darth Tyranus>Jedi Dooku>Mace Windu

BoD wrote:

The Jedi were definitely complacent throughout the trilogy, especially as of TPM, though the Sith were extinct for a millennium, but then the Sith finally revealed themselves to the Jedi in the form of Darth Maul, who gets bisected, but the other Sith Lord was still alive, and naturally, the Jedi in turn would've trained and practised harder and more seriously so that they would prepare themselves for the anxiety of having to fight the surviving Sith Lord. Then the clone wars happens, making many Jedi like Mace more battle hardened because of the life threatening and heavily taxing battles and skirmishes.

You misunderstand what I meant. By not being complacent, I mean they didn't just sit on their backsides and do nothing. Jedi like Mace honed their skills in spars and their Force abilities. While of course spars aren't going to make you battle hardened or as good as fights to the death or constant battles would, he'd still be incredibly dangerous.

If that's not convincing enough, keep in mind that TPM Mace was only slightly better than Qui-Gon Jinn,

I'd be wary of taking anything from that game for granted. Aside from some inaccuracies (long live Cockney Kenobi), it had Obi-Wan defeating Mace Windu and Plo Koon in sabers, which is a bit...well.

whereas RotS Mace can compete with RotS Sidious, and Qui-Gon would get absolutely fodderized by Sidious.

I agree, but I still think TPM Mace is still potent enough to take down Savage.

That's fine with me, I didn't mean to suggest that they were sitting on their backsides doing nothing, I was saying that the TPM Jedi council members weren't battle hardened like the RotS council because they hadn't had any idea that the Sith were still alive, and they initially scoffed at the idea that when Qui-Gon concluded that he encountered a Sith Lord on Tatooine due to their arrogance. There's probably half a dozen quotes saying that the PT era Jedi's downfall was their arrogance and hubris.

As for the Obi-Wan game, you have to keep in mind that Obi-Wan only defeated Mace and Plo in a sparring match. Sparring matches aren't necessarily indications of how Jedi would fare against each other in a fight to the death, and Obi-Wan's duel with Mace espcially doesn't prove that he's better than him given that TPM Mace has quotes saying he's second only to Yoda.

OK.

Mace is a master hand to hand combat artist as we saw from Shatterpoint. I can easily see him replicating what Kenobi did to his knee on Florrum. He also iced the same bounty hunter that gave CW Kenobi a decent fight.

Latham2000 wrote:

BoD wrote:

Latham2000 wrote:TPM Mace is a guy who lived in a time where the edi, especially Jedi council members, were living in complacency because they were under the delusion that they were in a time of peace and that the Sith were extinct, so I can see why this is debatable.

Peace =/= complacency.

The Jedi were definitely complacent throughout the trilogy, especially as of TPM, though the Sith were extinct for a millennium, but then the Sith finally revealed themselves to the Jedi in the form of Darth Maul, who gets bisected, but the other Sith Lord was still alive, and naturally, the Jedi in turn would've trained and practised harder and more seriously so that they would prepare themselves for the anxiety of having to fight the surviving Sith Lord. Then the clone wars happens, making many Jedi like Mace more battle hardened because of the life threatening and heavily taxing battles and skirmishes.

If that's not convincing enough, keep in mind that TPM Mace was only slightly better than Qui-Gon Jinn, whereas RotS Mace can compete with RotS Sidious, and Qui-Gon would get absolutely fodderized by Sidious.

Where is it stated that TPM Mace is only slightly better than Qui-Gon?

HellfireUnit wrote:Savage>Darth Tyranus>Jedi Dooku>Mace Windu

ROTS Windu is a different story.

O-Siri wrote:Mace is a master hand to hand combat artist as we saw from Shatterpoint. I can easily see him replicating what Kenobi did to his knee on Florrum. He also iced the same bounty hunter that gave CW Kenobi a decent fight.

Which bounty hunter?

TheNuisanceBird wrote:

O-Siri wrote:Mace is a master hand to hand combat artist as we saw from Shatterpoint. I can easily see him replicating what Kenobi did to his knee on Florrum. He also iced the same bounty hunter that gave CW Kenobi a decent fight.

Which bounty hunter?

Viana.

TheNuisanceBird wrote:Where is it stated that TPM Mace is only slightly better than Qui-Gon?

Here:

"His fighting style is graceful and precise, albeit a bit deadlier than Qui-Gon." -- Star Wars Episode I: Jedi Power Battles: Prima's Official Strategy Guide.

It's referring to their respective fighting styles, but TPM Mace and TPM Qui-Gon have accolades hyping them as the greatest Jedi in the order and shit, and their fighting styles are personalised too.

Latham2000 wrote:

TheNuisanceBird wrote:Where is it stated that TPM Mace is only slightly better than Qui-Gon?

Here:

"His fighting style is graceful and precise, albeit a bit deadlier than Qui-Gon." -- Star Wars Episode I: Jedi Power Battles: Prima's Official Strategy Guide.

It's referring to their respective fighting styles, but TPM Mace and TPM Qui-Gon have accolades hyping them as the greatest Jedi in the order and shit, and their fighting styles are personalised too.

Well damn...so TPM Maul VS TPM Windu could be closer than most people think.