How powerful was Darth Malak relative to Prequel-Era Jedi and Sith?

When compared to the Jedi and Sith that appeared in the prequel trilogy and supporting material (EU), how powerful was Darth Malak overall?  Where would he rank in the PT hierarchy?  Who is the most powerful Force user he can beat for a majority, and who would be his closest equal?

Not much, I'd rank him below Maul solidly.

Quinlan Vos or thereabouts. So above Maul, yes

Below TPM Maul, apparently.

With TCW or SoD Maul.

Below Jinn

Probably SoD Maul

I mean if he's around Maul level, does that mean Exar Kun is below Maul?

Necromancer76 wrote:I mean if he's around Maul level, does that mean Exar Kun is below Maul?

Yes.

ILS wrote:Below Jinn

The worst insult a character can receive. Damn ILS, you really don't like Malak.

Necromancer76 wrote:I mean if he's around Maul level, does that mean Exar Kun is below Maul?

Fair point that I keep forgetting. Above Maul then

I have him with some TCW versions of Maul.

Isv wrote:

ILS wrote:Below Jinn

The worst insult a character can receive. Damn ILS, you really don't like Malak.

Not an insult. I have Jinn in the same tier/bracket as some of the late Banite Sith and TPM powerhouses.

I think there is a tendency to overrate the more occult, less exposed characters like say Vol, Ramage, Tenebrous and what have you. There's a very skewed ratio of hype:dewank material that obscures what limitations they might have and alters how we view them. If we saw say, Vol have a lightsaber duel with someone, it would probably drastically reduce the hype that surrounds him. Whereas Jinn has enough inconsequential material that doesn't necessarily dewank him, but just widens the ratio of wank:normal showings. Characters are more effective the less they are used and expounded on.

But with Jinn, I think we kind of lose sight of the implications behind him holding up so well to TPM Maul, who himself is a freak in terms of physicals, power and skill. He's easily the top PT Jedi after the main powerhouses like Kenobi, Anakin, Yoda and Windu.

ILS wrote:But with Jinn, I think we kind of lose sight of the implications behind him holding up so well to TPM Maul, who himself is a freak in terms of physicals, power and skill. He's easily the top PT Jedi after the main powerhouses like Kenobi, Anakin, Yoda and Windu.

Yes. Power

"Lightsaber battles were brutal in their intensity; few duels lasted more than a minute. Even for a trained Jedi, the effort of all-out combat was exhausting: particularly when using the acrobatic maneuvers of Ataru."

Just on this quote from Zannah, duels rarely last more than a minute. Maul vs Jinn on Tatooine went for 40 seconds, and Jinn was only starting to flag in his stamina as he escaped. Being able to hold your own and pressure TPM Maul for 40 seconds to a minute is a high indicator of Jinn's sword skills and a rough indicator of his power as well.

Maul has some of the best strength feats in SW, even for Force users, while he is not drawing on the Force actively. He's a Juyo freak who has compelling scaling to Plagueis and Sidious during the mid-end parts of the DP novel, and fights with an utterly ridiculous fervour when it comes to fighting Jedi. Jinn fought him head on, strength to strength, which is pretty much the worst thing you could do against Maul. And not only did Jinn's raw skill stack up to Maul's own, but he had a kind of distinct edge thanks to his experience and abnormal connection to the Living Force. Maul would eventually win through either sheer raw power expending Jinn's reserves or by outplaying him. Given the rate at which Maul fights that's just stupidly impressive. Most duels we talk about end prematurely, inconclusively or through some x-factor that is separate from power and skill. Jinn's duels with Maul are way more extensive than, say, most of Ventress' across TCW, where she comes out looking good but never tends to go the distance with her opponents, e.g Mace, Kenobi, Anakin.

That’s a good point as well. A lot of these duels are interrupted/brief or involve lots of talking. Maul and Jinn just went at it no nonsense.

The idea someone like Fisto could match Maul blow to blow is bizarre and not supported anywhere. Hell, Maul changed his entire moveset because Jinn anticipated his first blow.

ILS wrote:I think there is a tendency to overrate the more occult, less exposed characters like say Vol, Ramage, Tenebrous and what have you. There's a very skewed ratio of hype:dewank material that obscures what limitations they might have and alters how we view them. If we saw say, Vol have a lightsaber duel with someone, it would probably drastically reduce the hype that surrounds him. Whereas Jinn has enough inconsequential material that doesn't necessarily dewank him, but just widens the ratio of wank:normal showings. Characters are more effective the less they are used and expounded on.

But with Jinn, I think we kind of lose sight of the implications behind him holding up so well to TPM Maul, who himself is a freak in terms of physicals, power and skill. He's easily the top PT Jedi after the main powerhouses like Kenobi, Anakin, Yoda and Windu.

That's because the debaters here have not really understood the intent behind the people. Eg. Valkorion should be a basically obscure character by the novel, yet he only comes out looking better by the game and expansions

On Vol, the intent behind having much of Luke's connection also isn't obvious because the author hasn't made it evident. Could it be that "much of Luke's strength" means actually that he is minimally behind Luke? Or could it mean that he has say, 50% of Luke's strength, much beyond what Abeloth used to battle( like Vestara or her master previously) but still not much compared to Luke?

A combative showing by Vol would confirm the vague statement to show what the intent behind the guy actually should be

As to Jinn, there should be a sizeable gap between him and Maul. Notably, most sources have made it evident that the guy stands up to Maul mainly on the basis of the experience and skill that he possesses( with some sources even going on saying that he can't physically compete against Maul), not raw power only. That is not to say that he doesn't have that, but the main quality that lets him stand up to Maul is his skill. Probably Yaddle or C'baoth could be better than him on the basis of power only

LOTL wrote:On Vol, the intent behind having much of Luke's connection also isn't obvious because the author hasn't made it evident. Could it be that "much of Luke's strength" means actually that he is minimally behind Luke? Or could it mean that he has say, 50% of Luke's strength, much beyond what Abeloth used to battle( like Vestara or her master previously) but still not much compared to Luke?

In this cases I feel like we should apply the famous saying “the truth lies in the middle”. I don’t think any reader would believe Luke can effortlessly stomp him as he did to Caedus after reading that statement, especially since Abeloth has seen Luke go all-out against her three times, however, as a result of Vol’s lack of exposure and obscurity, we are left with no indication that a fight between him and Luke would be close, which is unfortunate. I also think an important factor to consider is that gaps on that level of power tend to be huge, despite not being that way on paper. 

LOTL wrote:A combative showing by Vol would confirm the vague statement to show what the intent behind the guy actually should be

Vol’s fight with Abeloth is is kind of a confirmation of that statement. Although its uncommon nature makes it difficult to evaluate its actual impressiveness, Abeloth did attribute a portion of Vol’s success had to do with his power, with the addition of experience and a special ability. I also believe Vol’s stated ability to kill Workan before he latter can mutter an apology is a feat cements him as a top tier, even if not necessarily close to Luke. 
But I don’t want to derail this thread of course. On topic, I have Malak with Oppress, perhaps a bit higher. 

Definitely not above Maul

Cheth wrote:

Necromancer76 wrote:I mean if he's around Maul level, does that mean Exar Kun is below Maul?

Fair point that I keep forgetting. Above Maul then

Okay but what pegs Kun at Maul level lol?

below jinn or either kenobi 

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Cheth wrote:

Necromancer76 wrote:I mean if he's around Maul level, does that mean Exar Kun is below Maul?

Fair point that I keep forgetting. Above Maul then

Okay but what pegs Kun at Maul level lol?

Feats, accolades and scaling that Maul can't begin to compare to.