Lord Scourge vs Darth Marr

Standard rules

Scourge

@KingofBlades


Reasoning?

I'm feeling Marr on this one, leader of the dark council, with powers "unparalleled" in the sith order

The Dark Council is stated to fear Scourge as of Act 2. That tells me he's at least on their level, and likely >any individual member outright. Plus there's probable growth for him as of Onslaught, since Scourge has his emotions back and Scourge's shtick was gorging on his enemy's emotions to amp him back before he got stripped of them in the revan novel.

Marr was probably above the Wrath, Nox and Malgus by the end of Act 3 whereas Scourge was stalemated by Act 2 Hero. Marr probably wins tbh.

Scourge at this point I would say.  Fought the post-KOTET Outlander and survived, even landed a Force push in-combat to escape - has clearly grown substantially since being stalemated by Act II HoT.  Also was stated that the Dark Council stayed out of his way/wouldn't mess with him, which would include someone like Marr, and that was back when he was Act II Hero level.

Oh shit link to the new fight

ILS wrote:Oh shit link to the new fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6gczMq8xMw

Skip to 1:45.

Prime Scourge is much more powerful than his act 2 self, who was still > act 2 HoT and frightened most of the Dark Council. Onslaught Scourge now has his emotions - anger, love, hatred, loyalty, etc - to tap into even more deeply now, making him more powerful than before per his feats against the EW/DN.

BoD wrote:Prime Scourge is much more powerful than his act 2 self, who was still > act 2 HoT and frightened most of the Dark Council. Onslaught Scourge now has his emotions - anger, love, hatred, loyalty, etc - to tap into even more deeply now, making him more powerful than before per his feats against the EW/DN.

How is Act II Scourge > Act II HoT?

How is Act II Scourge > Act II HoT?

Scourge believed that he could kill the HoT and a former Dark Council member on Quesh, and considering he just fought the HoT, Scourge knows his capabilities. He's also back on his feet and apparently fine after an extended duel with the HoT when the HoT also had Kira with them.

The HoT also didn't beat him:

"You fought Lord Scourge to a standstill until he broke off the battle for some reason. See what he has to say in the throne room of the Emperor's fortress."
―Star Wars: The Old Republic

BoD wrote:

How is Act II Scourge > Act II HoT?

Scourge believed that he could kill the HoT and a former Dark Council member on Quesh, and considering he just fought the HoT, Scourge knows his capabilities. He's also back on his feet and apparently fine after an extended duel with the HoT when the HoT also had Kira with them.

The HoT also didn't beat him:

"You fought Lord Scourge to a standstill until he broke off the battle for some reason. See what he has to say in the throne room of the Emperor's fortress."
―Star Wars: The Old Republic

So Scourge claims he could have killed the HoT in a fight that would have taken place prior to the fight where they fought as equals. Not seeing how that makes Scourge > HoT.

So Scourge claims he could have killed the HoT in a fight that would have taken place prior to the fight where they fought as equals.

A fight that Scourge broke off and didn't intend to kill the HoT in. See his dialogue on Quesh and the Emperor's station:


"What a mystery the Force can be. I came seeking a traitor, but found you instead. The time draws near."


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"A minor disappointment, eclipsed by this curious discovery."


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"You're strong and touched by darkness. That is unexpected. An advantage? Possibly."


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"I could have killed you on Quesh, had I wanted. Did you never wonder why I hesitated?"


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"I have waited over three hundred years to see the face that came to me in a vision. Your face."


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"I needed to be sure the time had come. Now I know."




Scourge had no intention of killing the HoT as he realised this was the guy who he saw could kill the Emperor, his true enemy. Even then, he stalemated the HoT (who also had the help of Kira, another especially powerful Force user), breaking off the duel when he realised that the time had come to betray Vitiate. Nothing so far contradicting his claims.

Not seeing how that makes Scourge > HoT

In which case, you should provide evidence/arguments for why none of these quotes nor the narrative direction of Quesh and the Emperor's station prove Scourge > act 2 HoT. 

Mccduck wins by drowning Sith Force Ghost in money

BoD wrote:

So Scourge claims he could have killed the HoT in a fight that would have taken place prior to the fight where they fought as equals.

A fight that Scourge broke off and didn't intend to kill the HoT in. See his dialogue on Quesh and the Emperor's station:


"What a mystery the Force can be. I came seeking a traitor, but found you instead. The time draws near."


-




"A minor disappointment, eclipsed by this curious discovery."


-




"You're strong and touched by darkness. That is unexpected. An advantage? Possibly."


-


"I could have killed you on Quesh, had I wanted. Did you never wonder why I hesitated?"


-




"I have waited over three hundred years to see the face that came to me in a vision. Your face."


-


"I needed to be sure the time had come. Now I know."




Scourge had no intention of killing the HoT as he realised this was the guy who he saw could kill the Emperor, his true enemy. Even then, he stalemated the HoT (who also had the help of Kira, another especially powerful Force user), breaking off the duel when he realised that the time had come to betray Vitiate. Nothing so far contradicting his claims.

If you are going to argue that Scourge wasn't trying to kill the HoT then you should also acknowledge that the reverse can be argued as well.



Even if Scourge wasn't trying to kill the HoT that doesn't mean that Scourge was holding back. As for Kira helping the HoT fight Scourge: citation needed. Until you can show that Scourge was indeed holding back (while fighting right in front of the Emperor who would have instantly known something was up if he did and ruined his whole plan) and that the HoT received significant help then I see no reason why Scourge should be considered superior as they did fight to a standstill and then Scourge broke the fight off per the quote you cited. It should also be noted that the HoT fought through Sith and Imperial Guard prior to the duel, so by the time he got to Scourge, he wouldn't have been at 100% going into the fight.

Not seeing how that makes Scourge > HoT

In which case, you should provide evidence/arguments for why none of these quotes nor the narrative direction of Quesh and the Emperor's station prove Scourge > act 2 HoT. 

No, you have to prove that Scourge's claim referring to the HoT on Quesh would also apply to the HoT during their fight aboard the Citadel and would take precedence over the mission description stating they fought to a standstill. You made the claim that Act II Scourge > Act II HoT when contradicting evidence existed so the onus is on you to prove why the HoT who just fought through Sith and Imperial Guard is inferior to a fresh Scourge who he fought to a standstill.

Scourge

Scourge likely has surpassed Marr by the latest update.

Add scourge to the list of TOR Sith that beat Dooku

In the words of curry:

Marr holds out one hand

Scourge

scourge