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MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 4:44 am
Plagueis has ten seconds forewarning that he's about to face a Jedi more powerful than him. Who wins?
The LostLevel Five
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 5:55 am
Even though most people will take it for granted that Luke wins I'm actually curious to see what arguments people make for him.
Master AzrongerModerator
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 8:51 am
Plagueis could win via midi-chlorian manipulation.
Blade_of_DorinLevel One
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 10:01 am
Marc Spector wrote:Luke murder stomps via speed blitz
MasterCilghalLevel Three
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 11:21 am
Luke scales above emperor palpatine in DE, there is no way he would lose this.
- The LostLevel Five
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 11:24 am
How does he scale above DE Sheev exactly?mastercilghal wrote:Luke scales above emperor palpatine in DE, there is no way he would lose this.
- MasterCilghalLevel Three
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 11:37 am
I’ll give you a simple explanation. When Leia unlocked Luke’s full power in DE he bested palpatine in a fight that was around 30 seconds. Note that the comic said her force harmony unlocked “unexpected resources”, which clearly refers to Luke’s full potential. Otherwise it would mean Luke only recieved a minor amp and defeated the emperor, which wouldn’t make sense given hat Palpatine had demolished him not many days before.ILS wrote:How does he scale above DE Sheev exactly?mastercilghal wrote:Luke scales above emperor palpatine in DE, there is no way he would lose this.
Here is the comic:
Now, the Jedi academy training manual confirms the peak of Luke’s power came around the end of the Yuuzhan Vong war:
As such peak Luke> DE Palpatine>>ROTJ Palpatine>Rots Palpatine>>TPM Palpatine~Plagueis.
But even if we just compare their feats Luke comes off as remarkably better. The only reason he didn’t stomp anyone in his time was his tendency to hold back or the circumstances, nothing more.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 11:55 am
If Plagueis opens with MM, is Luke going to be able to effectively resist it?
Haggis
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 12:30 pm
Can MM be effectively employed in combat? It is probably Plagueis' only saving grace here - that or if Luke holds back tremendously like he stupidly does on many an occasion.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 12:33 pm
I see no reason why it can't be employed in any situation, especially since as Plagueis perfected his knowledge, he noted that cutting someone from the Force to kill them was way easier than bringing them back to life. Considering the Kotor 2 masters can employ a similar technique (they attempt to cut Meetra from the force), someone like Plagueis should be able to do it in a combat situation.
- MasterCilghalLevel Three
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 12:34 pm
Can MM be applied against a far more powerful opponent though?Meatpants wrote:I see no reason why it can't be employed in any situation, especially since as Plagueis perfected his knowledge, he noted that cutting someone from the Force to kill them was way easier than bringing them back to life. Considering the Kotor 2 masters can employ a similar technique (they attempt to cut Meetra from the force), someone like Plagueis should be able to do it in a combat situation.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 12:39 pm
Why not? Kun, despite being less powerful in the Force than Luke, was able to incapacitate him using a technique Luke had no knowledge of defending against. IIRC, even force drain required specific training to counter. Considering that only Plagueis has ever explored MM to this extent, it's very probable that Plagueis could do the same thing Kun did to Luke, except Plagueis' MM would simply sever Luke from the Force, the shock would likely kill him instantly.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 12:44 pm
Which brings up the question of how much willpower plays into being able to defend against a technique you can't counter by conventional means.
- MasterCilghalLevel Three
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 12:50 pm
@Meatpants i’m not so sure. The Kun feat, although it involved techniques Luke had no knowledge of (which was sith sorcery, another matter entirely), was in large part a combination of him being emotionally hindered and the tremendous power of Kun and Kyp, both of whom were empowered by the nexus of Yavin 4. Force drain actually plays into my hands: when Kreia used it against the three master she was able to one-shot them. By contrast, when Krayt used it against Luke and Abeloth( both of whom mmore powerful than him by a big margin) he had to employ it for an extended period of time, and even then he didn’t do any damage to them. I feel like it would happen the same with Plagueis.
The Adventurous JediLevel Seven
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 10th 2019, 12:58 pm
Plagueis. Luke won't release his full power instantly to kill Plagueis so Plagueis just kills him with MM.
NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 11th 2019, 9:38 am
Can MM be effectively employed in combat? It is probably Plagueis' only saving grace here - that or if Luke holds back tremendously like he stupidly does on many an occasion.
O-Siri
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 11th 2019, 9:54 am
Plagueis only used it on a helpless Ars Veruna. Using it combatively against someone much more powerful than you is an entirely different thing. Far to speculative to say MM is viable combative technique against someone of Luke's stature.
DarthSkywalker0
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 12th 2019, 1:44 pm
mastercilghal wrote:I’ll give you a simple explanation. When Leia unlocked Luke’s full power in DE he bested palpatine in a fight that was around 30 seconds. Note that the comic said her force harmony unlocked “unexpected resources”, which clearly refers to Luke’s full potential. Otherwise it would mean Luke only recieved a minor amp and defeated the emperor, which wouldn’t make sense given hat Palpatine had demolished him not many days before.ILS wrote:How does he scale above DE Sheev exactly?mastercilghal wrote:Luke scales above emperor palpatine in DE, there is no way he would lose this.
Here is the comic:
Now, the Jedi academy training manual confirms the peak of Luke’s power came around the end of the Yuuzhan Vong war:
As such peak Luke> DE Palpatine>>ROTJ Palpatine>Rots Palpatine>>TPM Palpatine~Plagueis.
But even if we just compare their feats Luke comes off as remarkably better. The only reason he didn’t stomp anyone in his time was his tendency to hold back or the circumstances, nothing more.
Pretty much none of this is true. She doesn't use force harmony until after the fight(that's BM). Unexpected resources do not refer to Luke's full potential all BM unlocks unexpected resources. That is the whole point of Battle Meditation. Leia uses unconscious, elementary BM. Sheev's physical form cannot properly channel his power.
- DarthSkywalker0
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 12th 2019, 1:51 pm
EXTREMELY disappointed by the pro-Plagueis arguments here.
- MasterCilghalLevel Three
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
May 12th 2019, 1:55 pm
@DarthSkywalker0 I need a more detailed explanation. Otherwise I cannot give a valid explanation to that statement.
EmperorCaedusLevel Three
Re: Plagueis vs GM Luke
November 13th 2019, 12:15 am
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Can MM be effectively employed in combat? It is probably Plagueis' only saving grace here - that or if Luke holds back tremendously like he stupidly does on many an occasion.
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