Suspect Insight Forums

Go down
Seturna
Seturna

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:36 pm
Morals on.
DC77 (Reborn)
DC77 (Reborn)
Level Five
Level Five

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:54 pm
Vitiate.
BoD
BoD
Level Three
Level Three

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:30 pm
Both are equally powerful but Vitiate has better mastery, more knowledge, and more self-control. He wins.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:10 pm
Vaylin isn't ~ SWTOR Vitiate.

Big Daddy wins.
BoD
BoD
Level Three
Level Three

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:18 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:Vaylin isn't ~ SWTOR Vitiate.

Big Daddy wins.
Her codex clearly indicates her full potential (AKA what she hit by chapter 8 of KOTET) was ~ SWTOR Vitiate, so yeah she is.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:31 pm
Vaylin never achieved her full potential. Literally the entire plot point up to her death is that every moment that passes, she is getting stronger. If she did achieve her full potential, all of the Valk spirits and Outlanders in the world wouldn't have stopped her. The idea she's at full potential upon her death is literally paradoxical to the reason why Valkorion insists on killing her now instead of waiting until later. Her power is literally outgrowing the Outlander's which is fvcking crazy power growth already.
BoD
BoD
Level Three
Level Three

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:37 pm
Vaylin never achieved her full potential. Literally the entire plot point up to her death is that every moment that passes, she is getting stronger. If she did achieve her full potential, all of the Valk spirits and Outlanders in the world wouldn't have stopped her. The idea she's at full potential upon her death is literally paradoxical to the reason why Valkorion insists on killing her now instead of waiting until later. Her power is literally outgrowing the Outlander's which is fvcking crazy power growth already.

"My full power has been unleashed!"
"If Vaylin unleashes her full power, even you may not be strong enough to stop her."
"When most of the Emperor's power was locked away on Yavin 4, he was no longer able to hide Vaylin's strength from her, and she finally got a taste of her full capabilities."


That's three sources (Vaylin, Valkorion and the codex) all stating that this was her full potential. And you're ignoring the context. Her power was growing exponentially while chained, meaning that her conditioning was becoming less and less effective anyway as her power grew at a ridiculous rate without Valkorion alive to control her. Upon unlocking her full power, she instantly gained access to all of the power she should have had, which is why she was powerful enough to use battle meditation on an entire fleet before ragdolling Arcann and Senya, knocking back the Outlander and completely dissipating Valkorion so he could only then reappear for about 4 seconds.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:39 pm
Yes the full power that she should have attained by that point, not her full potential. Her full potential and her full current power are two entirely different things.
BoD
BoD
Level Three
Level Three

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:42 pm
I don't think you're following. Valkorion isn't saying "if she breaks her conditioning and you give her a few years, she'll reach her full potential." He's literally saying that this is her full power. Right here, right now. Hell, the deleted dialogue even corroborates this, having her perform SWTOR Vitiate level feats like pulling the Alliance's fleet (including the Gravestone) down towards Odessen while simultaneously ripping the base apart.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:54 pm
I know what he says, but her unlocking her full power is merely removing the final restraints artificially placed upon her by her father. She still has room for growth beyond that. Her whole glowing eyes thing represents her enraged, as in calling upon her full potential in an Anakin style manner. So if anything that only proves she has more room to grow or she wouldn't have need to do so.
DC77 (Reborn)
DC77 (Reborn)
Level Five
Level Five

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:59 pm
@BreakOfDawn The second quote goes against the notion you've put forth, as does the third lol. The first one just seems like Vaylin basking in the glory of her newfound power lol.
BoD
BoD
Level Three
Level Three

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:59 pm
I know what he says, but her unlocking her full power is merely removing the final restraints artificially placed upon her by her father. She still has room for growth beyond that. Her whole glowing eyes thing represents her enraged, as in calling upon her full potential in an Anakin style manner. So if anything that only proves she has more room to grow or she wouldn't have need to do so.

No, it doesn't. The purple aura effect is her channeling her full potential (as you said), which means she's tapping into everything she has and could have (again, supported by Vaylin, Valkorion and the codex). There's zero evidence that she had room for growth beyond that. If she did, it'd put her > SWTOR Vitiate.
BoD
BoD
Level Three
Level Three

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:01 pm
The second quote goes against the notion you've put forth, as does the third lol. The first one just seems like Vaylin basking in the glory of her newfound power lol.

How? The second is from before she breaks her conditioning (which terrifies Valkorion when he senses it), and the third is the codex saying that when Vitiate was imprisoned on Yavin IV, chained Vaylin was able to sense her full potential (which is infinitely beyond her chained self). It's how she was aware that Valkorion had trapped her power beyond mentally chaining her in the first place.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level One
Level One

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:06 pm
Yeah none of the three quotes you provided implies Vaylin achieved her full potential lmao
DC77 (Reborn)
DC77 (Reborn)
Level Five
Level Five

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:07 pm
For the same reasons AP put forth lol.
BoD
BoD
Level Three
Level Three

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:14 pm
By all means: if one of you can find a quote suggesting unchained Vaylin was growing more powerful instead of peaking there, I'll happily retract my argument.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:17 pm
BreakofDawn wrote:
I know what he says, but her unlocking her full power is merely removing the final restraints artificially placed upon her by her father. She still has room for growth beyond that. Her whole glowing eyes thing represents her enraged, as in calling upon her full potential in an Anakin style manner. So if anything that only proves she has more room to grow or she wouldn't have need to do so.

No, it doesn't. The purple aura effect is her channeling her full potential (as you said), which means she's tapping into everything she has and could have (again, supported by Vaylin, Valkorion and the codex). There's zero evidence that she had room for growth beyond that. If she did, it'd put her > SWTOR Vitiate.


You're not making sense, Chained Vaylin could channel that purple-eyed power well before Nathema. Now you're telling me that she's already at full power as Chained Vaylin?
BoD
BoD
Level Three
Level Three

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:20 pm
You're not making sense, Chained Vaylin could channel that purple-eyed power well before Nathema. Now you're telling me that she's already at full power as Chained Vaylin?

Gonna be my last response for tonight cos I need to sleep, but the only time she actually does this is when she's breaking out of Valkorion's grip, when she's channelling such a huge amount of power on top of her conditioning already weakening and enabling her to, per Valk's words, "grow exponentially".
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Three
Level Three

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:47 am
The entire reason Valk imposed mental conditioning on Vaylin was to limit her growth and make it so he could control her. By removing those limits she's unleashing the power she should have attained by that point, but didn't due to the limits Valk placed on her. That is what is meant by "full power" not her somehow achieving her full potential lol.
darthbane77
darthbane77

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:35 pm
Tenebrae
Praxis
Praxis
Moderator
Moderator

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

on Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:42 pm
The question is, what is "SWTOR Vitiate" exactly? The Voice we see in Act II of the HoT story? If so he should be significantly weaker than post-Ziost Valkorion and quite possibly less powerful than Vaylin. If we are referring to his collective self, as in all the power imbued into his Voices, Children, the Hand, Valk during vanilla, etc. then I'm not sure we really have much of a reference for how powerful he would be in that form besides being less powerful than the Valkorion we see after Ziost. If his collective self is anywhere near that level though then he should win without too much trouble.
Sponsored content

Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate Empty Re: Unchained Vaylin vs SWTOR Vitiate

Back to top
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum