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lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

Vader's standing Empty Vader's standing

on November 6th 2019, 11:52 pm
This is an opinion based thread, i suppose. Ive been wondering where people place suited Vader as far as power and skill goes.

Ive seen stuff that says "weaker than TPM Kenobi, and barely more skilled", to "should be Malgus/Bane level, by sheer Banite scaling, likely higher", to "Above Revan, equal to Gethzerion, Caedus level"

Since some of the statements regarding his power are incredibly variant (from "shell of his former self", all the way to "his powers grew considerably since they last met"), and have come up incoherently in almost all eras (the ANH through ROTJ novels all say he got stronger, but other comics and such, at about the same time, say that he is not as strong as he was), I dont personally consider 'amount' of sources as the right way to measure validity.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 12:08 am
I probably put Vader with high Dark Council members like Marr, but it's possible he's up with TPM Maul.
O-Siri
O-Siri

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 12:23 am
Been done to death, but I maintain that there are simply two completely different narratives in the works, one being that Vader grew more powerful over time and the other being that he's way past his best by ANH. I think everyone deep down knows this. It's no different than the two completely different takes on the General Grievous character from pre-RotS to TCW. Everyone acknowledges the intent and portrayal of the character is different and refrain from compositing feats and treat them as two separate characters. We should do the same with Vader. Problem is there are a lot of Dooku fans who like to bank on his low showings and apply it to all versions of Vader and by the same token a lot of Vader fans who like to bank on his "vastly pre-prime" showings and argue he grew tremendously by OT even though he has nothing to show for it, just a so so performance against a far past it Obi-Wan and rookie Luke.
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 4:52 am
I have him on Dooku's level, I think people massively underrate him
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 4:59 am
@O-Siri wrote:Been done to death, but I maintain that there are simply two completely different narratives in the works, one being that Vader grew more powerful over time and the other being that he's way past his best by ANH. I think everyone deep down knows this. It's no different than the two completely different takes on the General Grievous character from pre-RotS to TCW. Everyone acknowledges the intent and portrayal of the character is different and refrain from compositing feats and treat them as two separate characters. We should do the same with Vader. Problem is there are a lot of Dooku fans who like to bank on his low showings and apply it to all versions of Vader and by the same token a lot of Vader fans who like to bank on his "vastly pre-prime" showings and argue he grew tremendously by OT even though he has nothing to show for it, just a so so performance against a far past it Obi-Wan and rookie Luke.
As a Dooku fan myself, I dislike how overrated he is gotten
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 8:35 am
Note that sub TPM Kenobi thing is just a troll. Nobody here actually believes that
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Three
Level Three

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 8:37 am
Sub Sors Bandeem. he's below all PT Jedi which includes new training initiates like Sors
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 9:44 am
Dooku level, give or take. For sabers, maybe Fisto level.
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Three
Level Three

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 1:07 pm
What a scrub^

Dooku level lmao, dood dooku was the center of the universe and all stars revolved around him, Dooku could fight on par with Anakin and Obi wan together with ease and MATCH a rage amped YODA while he was exhausted twice, Dooku threw many 500 METER CRUISERS LIKE FOOTBALLS, the only reason dooku died is the guy he was fighting CAN ALTER REALITY. LMFAO Vader is nowhere near Dooku's plane of existence let alone near sors bandeem who was so powerful KFV feared him


"Anakin was slightly afraid of all those in the jedi temple yet he slaughtered them like animals. Quick! Help Anakin decode the incoming separatists transmission and prepare attack on the next page!"


-Revenge of the Sith Coloring Book k-12
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 1:34 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Darth Vader as of ROTJ was definitely on par with Dooku, if not higher. This forum hates of Vader for some reason
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 1:34 pm
Ok, who let ISV near MyGod's acid farm?
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Three
Level Three

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 2:31 pm
Above Starkiller, sub Baras
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 2:58 pm
@CuckedCurry wrote:Above Starkiller, sub Baras
Vader's standing Got7zd12
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 4:00 pm
With TCW Maul and ROTS Kenobi in Force Power. Sub-TPM Maul in sabers.
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 7th 2019, 6:21 pm
His physical limitations are a let down, but nonetheless strong in the Force. Prolly tier 8 overall but barely scratching it honestly. I struggle to justify putting him above tpm Maul.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 4:13 am
I have the opinion that, as all the power of the Force user is in the spirit, Vader might not actually have gotten weaker at all in an overall sense, but his ability to meaningfully manifest that power in combat is hampered by his suit and occasionally his psychological problems. It would explain why he has so many low showings, yet people sense power above Kar Vastor and on par pre-suit Anakin emanating from him, and how he's able to toss the Emperor down the shaft.

_________________
Vader's standing Sheev_sig_3
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 8:16 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
yeah, something important to point is that lucas' early vision for vader being fodder compared to anakin was kinda thrown dow the drain, later on, it seems to me, at least. there is a good amount of quotes that by ANH, he was stronger than anakin, and some other quotes that say, like az pointed out, that his main problem was mental. sheev even said that if he could fix that, he could get anakin's original back.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 9:35 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
The idea that suit Vader is anywhere near KFV or even hindered MFV is so ludicrous it’s MyGod worthy.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 9:38 am
its so ludicrous that obi wan talks about it in ANH...
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 9:41 am
ROTJ Vader might be stronger than base ROTS Anakin, but he's certainly not as strong or stronger than KFV, let alone MFV. Even setting aside the Force, either would murk him in sabers. No, Dooku for power level and Maul for saber level seems a safe place to peg him.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 9:43 am
he is factually stronger than dooku tho...
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 10:23 am
(He's not.)
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 10:25 am
(he is tho)
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 10:34 am
Vader may be more powerful than Dooku (highly unlikely), but that's not a "factual" position.
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Two
Level Two

Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

on November 8th 2019, 11:09 am
As a duelist, he's slightly inferior to RotS Kenobi, SoD Maul, RotS  and even more inferior to Anakin, Dooku, Mace, Yoda, Palpatine, but superior to TPM Maul and everyone else in the PT era.

As a Force user, he's moderately more powerful than Dooku.


Last edited by Latham2000 on November 8th 2019, 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Vader's standing Empty Re: Vader's standing

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