Darth Sidious vs Count Dooku

October 20th 2019, 10:03 pm

Both as of RotS.

Round 1: Lightsaber duel

Round 2: All out

Both are fighting seriously and to the death.

Not intended to be a competitive thread. Try to explain the degree of difficulty Sheev has in winning and why. "Sidious wins" is literally the most useless post you could make. I know some of you will do it, but seriously, don't be like DC77. Answer the thread.

October 20th 2019, 10:56 pm

Minor difficulty. Dooku's scared shitless to cross this guy. It's a huge mental advantage even Yoda doesn't have over him and that fight wasn't particularly competitive.

October 20th 2019, 11:44 pm

Dooku in a good fight. If I had to put a timer on it I’d say around a minute and a half. Him holding out against Yoda and Zonekin while exhausted says it all

October 21st 2019, 12:19 am

Round 1: I think the AotC fight is a pretty accurate representation of what would happen here, though perhaps a bit faster, considering Dooku knows (close to) nothing about how Sidious fights relative to Yoda. I think the gap between Yoda and Dooku in AotC is roughly speaking the same sort of gap that would exist between RotS Sidious and Dooku. Dooku can hold on for like, 20-30 seconds, but ends up way too exhausted to compete.

Round 2: Neither draw their sabers. This is a Force battle that ends decisively in Sidious' favor when he conjures up his lightning, which Dooku can only briefly hold off with tutaminis before being slowly tortured to death.

October 21st 2019, 4:01 am

Sabers: Zonakin beat Dooku in 12 seconds in sabers, making all his dark side abilities useless and his knowledge of the Force a joke with his sheer might alone. Per the Lucas scale, that Anakin is inferior to Sheev in sabers, so Sheev would spank Dooku even quicker.

Force: Sheev has enough mastery to repeatedly find gaps in Yoda's defenses to get shots in at his unprotected body (or alternatively, as I've proposed in the past, the lightning is too fast for even Yoda to react to), so doing the same to Dooku wouldn't be an issue. Given Sheev's lightning is more painful than what even Maul can endure (Maul was screaming when struck by it and begging for mercy, and you more than anyone should know how tolerant Maul is of pain), I could honestly see Dooku losing all concentration and ability to defend himself from just experiencing the sensation of being struck by it. Consider: the RotS script actually states that Mace was trying to block Sheev's lightning with his one good hand (you can kinda see that in the movie as well), but his tutaminis got shredded instantly, and he became a wobbling vegetable and got flung to his death. You might say that he was hindered by the pain of losing an arm, but then Dooku would similarly be hindered by the pain of being hit by Sheev's lightning, and become so impotent he would die from a mere 500-meter-drop like Mace (even non-Vaapad Mace is an 8 bordering on 9, so at the very least Dooku's equal, and much lesser Force-users have survived greater falls).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0r4jNhG9Z4&t=250s

Just as MACE is about to slash PALPATINE, ANAKIN steps in and cuts off the Jedi's hand holding the lightsaber.

As MACE stares at ANAKIN in shock, PALPATINE springs to life.

The full force of Palpatine's powerful bolts blasts MACE. He attempts to deflect them with his one good hand, but the force is too great. As blue rays engulf his body, he is flung out the window and falls twenty stories to his death. No more screams. No more moans. PALPATINE lowers his arm.

Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith script

All-out: Sheev wins in 5 seconds. Reasons above.

October 21st 2019, 4:09 am

Also, if the OP requests reasons, you must provide them. Deleting all useless comments.

October 21st 2019, 5:11 am

For the record there's nothing limiting Zonakin to sub sheev. Neither Lucas or Gillard ever mark the exact moment Anakin transitions into a 9. Anakin could've started the movie an 8 but elevated to a 9 once he goes "Zonakin". Otherwise we have to throw out all Anakin's supremacy quotes

October 21st 2019, 9:04 am

KingofBlades wrote:For the record there's nothing limiting Zonakin to sub sheev. Neither Lucas or Gillard ever mark the exact moment Anakin transitions into a 9. Anakin could've started the movie an 8 but elevated to a 9 once he goes "Zonakin". Otherwise we have to throw out all Anakin's supremacy quotes

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t14-ss-the-tyrannical-ten-darth-krayt-azronger-vs-darth-tyranus-arkhamasylum3

October 21st 2019, 10:19 am

Dooku is no challenge to Yoda or Anakin, and he gets stomped here

October 21st 2019, 10:33 am

Round 1: Dooku is described by most sources as Yoda’s clear inferior in lightsaber combat, as their duel in AOTC and later on Vjun can attest (the latter while Dooku was amped)

COUNT DOOKU charges across the space at YODA. He rains down blows upon the tiny figure. YODA doesn't budge an inch. For the first part of the contest, he parries every cut and thrust that Dooku aims. Nothing the great swordsman tries gets through. His energy drains. His strokes become feebler, slower.
-aotc script

Then their blades clashed together in a lace of fire, green and red: but the green burned hotter. Slowly, slowly, Dooku gave way: and in the dark, drunken Vjun air, Yoda was terrible to behold.
-dark rendezvous

Considering Yoda’s standing as equal to Sidious there is no doubt Dooku is going down after a solid fight at best.

Round 2: Sidious can likely simply overwhelm Dooku with lightning, given how he was able to do the same to a more powerful opponent in Yoda.

October 21st 2019, 10:55 am

Consider: the RotS script actually states that Mace was trying to block Sheev's lightning with his one good hand (you can kinda see that in the movie as well), but his tutaminis got shredded instantly, and he became a wobbling vegetable and got flung to his death. You might say that he was hindered by the pain of losing an arm, but then Dooku would similarly be hindered by the pain of being hit by Sheev's lightning, and become so impotent he would die from a mere 500-meter-drop like Mace (even non-Vaapad Mace is an 8 bordering on 9, so at the very least Dooku's equal, and much lesser Force-users have survived greater falls).

@Azronger Agree with the sentiment, but Mace had just been emotionally shocked by Anakin turning on him, was exhausted, and had to deal with the pain of having his hand lobbed off while trying to stop a refreshed Sheev's most powerful lightning. I'd honestly say Mace at that specific moment could have been killed by almost any semi-powerful Sith. Normal Mace or even Dooku would probably have fared considerably better.

R1: Sheev in a good fight. Dooku's performance against Yoda, despite being his inferior, gives him enough standing to give Sheev a fight.
R2: Sheev wins, again in a good fight. His lightning will overwhelm Dooku, but he'll have to really push himself to do so.

October 21st 2019, 11:58 am

Deals with him the same way Yoda did in AOTC.

October 21st 2019, 5:06 pm

The fight’s a lot shorter than AotC purely because Sidious has no moral reservations and is monstrously more powerful than Dooku on the basis that his exploration into the force itself propelled his power into the nigh-unprecedented territory (Valk, Plagueis, Yoda tier).

October 22nd 2019, 4:51 am

CuckedCurry wrote:The fight’s a lot shorter than AotC purely because Sidious has no moral reservations and is monstrously more powerful than Dooku on the basis that his exploration into the force itself propelled his power into the nigh-unprecedented territory (Valk, Plagueis, Yoda tier).

Valk >> ROTS Sheev or Yoda.

October 22nd 2019, 9:17 am

WalkingInCircles (away) wrote:

Consider: the RotS script actually states that Mace was trying to block Sheev's lightning with his one good hand (you can kinda see that in the movie as well), but his tutaminis got shredded instantly, and he became a wobbling vegetable and got flung to his death. You might say that he was hindered by the pain of losing an arm, but then Dooku would similarly be hindered by the pain of being hit by Sheev's lightning, and become so impotent he would die from a mere 500-meter-drop like Mace (even non-Vaapad Mace is an 8 bordering on 9, so at the very least Dooku's equal, and much lesser Force-users have survived greater falls).

@Azronger Agree with the sentiment, but Mace had just been emotionally shocked by Anakin turning on him, was exhausted,

Sources? Can't be bothered to check if the novels say that.

October 22nd 2019, 10:02 am

Azronger wrote:

WalkingInCircles (away) wrote:

Consider: the RotS script actually states that Mace was trying to block Sheev's lightning with his one good hand (you can kinda see that in the movie as well), but his tutaminis got shredded instantly, and he became a wobbling vegetable and got flung to his death. You might say that he was hindered by the pain of losing an arm, but then Dooku would similarly be hindered by the pain of being hit by Sheev's lightning, and become so impotent he would die from a mere 500-meter-drop like Mace (even non-Vaapad Mace is an 8 bordering on 9, so at the very least Dooku's equal, and much lesser Force-users have survived greater falls).

@Azronger Agree with the sentiment, but Mace had just been emotionally shocked by Anakin turning on him, was exhausted,

Sources? Can't be bothered to check if the novels say that.

Emotionally shocked: Aside from him screaming in shock and pain and clearly not being in a fighting state in the film, there's also this:

He had been so intent on Palpatine's shatterpoint that he'd never thought to look for Anakin's. Dark lightning blasted away his universe. He fell forever.

As for being exhausted:

"Anakin!" Mace called. His voice sounded distant, blurred, as if it came from the bottom of a well. "Anakin, help me! This is your chance!"
He felt Anakin's leap from the office floor to the ledge, felt his approach behind—
-
"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."
Plus, as a little after note he was noted as having not slept properly for weeks, maybe months by Yoda:
With a slow purse of the lips and an even slower nod, Yoda said, "On watch you have been too long, my Padawan. Rest you must."

"I will, Master. When the Republic is safe once more." Mace straightened. "We are waiting only for your vote."

...As well as by Obi-Wan:

Some of the lines erased themselves from the Koran Master's face then, and when he met Obi-Wan's eye there was a quirk at the corner of his mouth that might someday develop into a smile-a tired, sad smile, but a smile nonetheless.

October 27th 2019, 6:41 am

Sidious wins both. Sidious has been said to be the better duellist and had a better fight against yoda. Add with dooku's mindest. He's scared as hell

Sidious has already choked dooku across the galaxy. Add that with him overpowering yoda. His lighting was faster than Yoda could react.

Dooku doesn't stand much of a chance

Could see tpm sidious beating dooku as well tbh

But that's debateble

October 27th 2019, 11:36 am

i love how sidious somehow stomps here in yalls opinions, even though the only thing he has above dooku is power lol i could make an argument that dooku is a better duelist, not slower at all, more experienced by a good bit, knows way more light sided abilities, and is more physically fit as well. aside from being more powerful, sidious is a more psycho copy paste of dooku. thats the only reason he wins here.

October 27th 2019, 12:37 pm

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:i love how sidious somehow stomps here in yalls opinions, even though the only thing he has above dooku is power lol i could make an argument that dooku is a better duelist, not slower at all, more experienced by a good bit, knows way more light sided abilities, and is more physically fit as well. aside from being more powerful, sidious is a more psycho copy paste of dooku. thats the only reason he wins here.

Hey, welcome to the forum. How did you make your way to Suspect Insight?

October 27th 2019, 2:25 pm

Sidious wins, and he wins more convincingly than Yoda because he’s far more violent and ferocious than Yoda. And unlike Yoda, Sidious won’t be disinterested in fighting his student, he’ll enjoy it due to his Sith nature. He may even toy with him to enjoy the satisfaction of humiliating Dooku.

October 27th 2019, 4:31 pm

@darthskywalker man, idk, but im pretty new here lol i forgot. its nice tho, ill say that. hey, idk if any of u are interested, but i made a darth vader respect thread, putting some things into context. its slightly unfinished, but i would say its pretty good. it has some of my opinions on things, but i tried not to be too bias lol

October 27th 2019, 9:06 pm

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:@darthskywalker man, idk, but im pretty new here lol i forgot. its nice tho, ill say that. hey, idk if any of u are interested, but i made a darth vader respect thread, putting some things into context. its slightly unfinished, but i would say its pretty good. it has some of my opinions on things, but i tried not to be too bias lol

Good to have Vader defenders, we need more of them there. Post it when you think its ready.

October 27th 2019, 9:43 pm

The Vader part is ready. The early Anakin one isnt. I did it chronologically, so it from TPM allll the way to ROTJ. But yeah, ill post it here.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Lorenzo.r.2nd/Mini_Darth_Vader/Anakin_Skywalker_(EU)_respect_thread here

Darth Sidious vs Count Dooku

Darth Sidious vs Count Dooku

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